Doctor Who Series 8; The time of the man that stops the monsters (v2)

[sj4iy]

Anyone else notice the track "Pain Everlasting" from season 7b playing when the Doctor realizes that Missy lied to him about Gallifrey?

I has even more of a sad than I did before.

[Samalander]

I was wondering if Clara could possibly be pregnant by Danny, but there's no indication of it.

That's exactly what I wondered. Doesn't she have descendants with Danny?

That would explain everything. Having something important to tell the Doctor, not being able to travel with him anymore and the future descendants. Too bad they didn't at least foreshadow it more on the episode.

[felice]

I missed what happened when the Doctor went looking for Gallifrey; though I saw his unhappy reaction. Did it blow up or something, or was it a dead end?

It was very badly shot, but it seems that the idea was that Gallifrey just wasn't there. It looked to me like he'd landed in a broom closet or something, but if you look carefully there are some white specks visible that are presumably stars, and presumably not just the night sky as visible from Gallifrey's surface. Why he was so upset it wasn't there is a mystery, since he knew exactly where it was for centuries up until less than a year ago, the reasons for it not coming back are presumably still valid, and he never wanted to go there when it was accessible.

I wish that Kate's assistant had lived.

Yes, killing her off seemed a bit of a waste. Maybe that was just her Zygon double, not the real Osgood? The guards watching Missy at the time were rather incompetent.

Bringing the Brigadier back as a cyberzombie struck me as a bit tacky. And all the other ex-Cybermen are presumably back in the Nethersphere along with Danny and the kid, in an indefinite afterlife... that has some interesting possibilities for fanfic, though I expect the show itself will forget about it. Will it keep on saving the minds of all the newly deceased for the rest of human history (I assume it's an automated process)? And what about all the cyberzombies that hadn't emerged from the ground yet?

[Maltaran]

Yes, killing her off seemed a bit of a waste. Maybe that was just her Zygon double, not the real Osgood? The guards watching Missy at the time were rather incompetent.

No, we saw her using her inhaler, so it had to be the real one.

[Arataniello]

What a load of mawkish tripe that was.

[Old Man Aegon]

" a woman with scottish accent" called it in to unit... How long did Amy live for after being sent back in time?

[Arataniello]

" a woman with scottish accent" called it in to unit... How long did Amy live for after being sent back in time?

It was Missy, using the actress's actual accent. She slipped back and forth between accents during the episode (for no explainable reason).

[sj4iy]

It was Missy, using the actress's actual accent. She slipped back and forth between accents during the episode (for no explainable reason).

"Bananas!" is only reason needed, I think :)

[DaveSumm]

Real let down of a finale. This season was on target to be one of the best but really didn't stick the landing. We're all used to nonsensical sci-fi just to get the characters in emotional situations, but it was the emotion that didn't work for me here. Missy's entire plan to give The Doctor an army, and we're supposed to believe he'd ever go to war with an army? You can throw in all the teases you like about whether he's a good man, that was never happening, and so it wasn't remotely interesting as an entire season resolution. And all the stuff about Danny being a soldier.......just so he can give one command? One which the cybermen would've obeyed regardless of who'd given it? The only part that worked was his love for Clara, other than that his role was completely replaceable. And can someone explain why The Doctor *had* to take the army as Missy said, or everyone would die? Why's it that black and white? Surely he could've commanded them all to stand there doing nothing for the rest of their lives? I found the idea that every nation on the planet would agree to hand over their military to some guy they'd never met pretty stupid as well. Oh and then there's 'if you happen to be wearing a bracelet that controls cybermen and you die then you can resurrect a kid'. O.......K.

[Castel]

Real let down of a finale. This season was on target to be one of the best but really didn't stick the landing. We're all used to nonsensical sci-fi just to get the characters in emotional situations, but it was the emotion that didn't work for me here. Missy's entire plan to give The Doctor an army, and we're supposed to believe he'd ever go to war with an army? You can throw in all the teases you like about whether he's a good man, that was never happening, and so it wasn't remotely interesting as an entire season resolution. And all the stuff about Danny being a soldier.......just so he can give one command? One which the cybermen would've obeyed regardless of who'd given it? The only part that worked was his love for Clara, other than that his role was completely replaceable. And can someone explain why The Doctor *had* to take the army as Missy said, or everyone would die? Why's it that black and white? Surely he could've commanded them all to stand there doing nothing for the rest of their lives? I found the idea that every nation on the planet would agree to hand over their military to some guy they'd never met pretty stupid as well. Oh and then there's 'if you happen to be wearing a bracelet that controls cybermen and you die then you can resurrect a kid'. O.......K.

I think Missy would just have used the army or continued to make Cybermen until everyone was dead?

I suppose the Doctor didn't want to take it because,well, he'll be fighting someone three hours after he's done with Missy. And, just like speeches meant nothing when he needed information from Danny, it'll be just a bit too easy to use them to blow up the next asshole. But that was just a momentary fear really.

Ah well, at least this "good man" fear is better than the bullshit "the Doctor scares people into blowing up the universe by being too nice" plot with the Silence (which turned out to be bullshit iirc).

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It seems like I am the only one around here who loved the finale. I like it when the viewers attention is distracted by something in order to hide the real mystery. Who Missy was wasn't the mystery, it was too obvious from the beginning. The real mysteries for me were; how she escaped from Gallifrey, where is Gallifrey(even if I have a theory) and how Doctor got that face.

I don't believe that Missy is dead although it would be so awesome that if it was really Brigadier that killed him. When I saw it I was like;you must not shed a tear. Didn't worked :crying:. I really liked the fact that he saved Kate, like the Doctor said about Danny "love is not an emotion; love is a promise, and he will never hurt her.". Brigadier was a rogue Cyberman before it was cool. :cool4:

She killed Osgood :frown5: :bawl: :crying:

Missy's "I need you to know we're not so different! I need my friend back." reminded me of Ten's "I've been alone ever since. But not anymore. Don't you see? All we've got is each other." I half expected that Doctor would said "Are you asking me out?"

People are keep complaining about Moffat but I really cannot understand it; series instead of episodes.

[sj4iy]

It seems like I am the only one around here who loved the finale. I like it when the viewers attention is distracted by something in order to hide the real mystery. Who Missy was wasn't the mystery, it was too obvious from the beginning. The real mysteries for me were; how she escaped from Gallifrey, where is Gallifrey(even if I have a theory) and how Doctor got that face.

I don't believe that Missy is dead although it would be so awesome that if it was really Brigadier that killed him. Whem I saw it I was like;you mast not shed a tear. Didn't worked :crying:. I really liked the fact that he saved Kate, like the Doctor said about Danny "love is not an emotion; love is a promise, and he will never hurt her.". Brigadier was a rogue Cyberman before it was cool. :cool4:

She killed Osgood :frown5: :bawl: :crying:

Missy's "I need you to know we're not so different! I need my friend back." reminded me of Ten's "I've been alone ever since. But not anymore. Don't you see? All we've got is each other."

People are keep complaining about Moffat but I really cannot understand it; series instead of episodes.

I thought the episode was great. And people always complain about Moffat- I simply ignore them.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I thought the episode was great. And people always complain about Moffat-

I really cannot see the problem with Moffat.

I simply ignore them.

This is the best strategy! :cheers:

[dog-days]

Anyone else think that Clara's going to get Danny back in the Xmas special?

I've been wondering lately whether the series is more or less Welsh under Moffat. I think that Davies era Who was also quite

London focused with Essex accents aplenty, despite being filmed in Glamorgan. But it ran alongside Torchwood, which felt very Welsh to me. I'd like a really hyper Welsh episode in the next series, which, despite my issues with the show, I'm looking forward to very much. (And now I'm trying to imagine a hyper Welsh episode.)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It was Missy, using the actress's actual accent. She slipped back and forth between accents during the episode (for no explainable reason).

Maybe because she liked Doctor's new accent?

[felice]

Missy's entire plan to give The Doctor an army, and we're supposed to believe he'd ever go to war with an army?

That was one of the few things I liked about the episode. Whether the Doctor would do it or not, it's an interesting idea for the Master to try. And the main reason it obviously wouldn't happen is the series format rather than anything in-universe; morally speaking, it's hard to argue against saving countless trillions of people from being killed by daleks etc (there's not even the Genesis excuse, since the cyberzombies can be applied more judiciously). Hell, if the cyberzombie army can take on the daleks, it removes the alleged barrier to Gallifrey coming back.

And all the stuff about Danny being a soldier.......just so he can give one command? One which the cybermen would've obeyed regardless of who'd given it? The only part that worked was his love for Clara

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled by the "soliders are awesome" nonsense, and he was acting exactly like the general he claimed not to be. The only reason he even participated in the suicide mission was that he didn't want to live; it would have been just as effective without him. And the love part didn't make sense at all; it's an emotion, exactly what the inhibitor is designed to suppress. Though proper cybermen would have just chopped the unnecessary pieces out of the brain during conversion rather than relying on an inhibitor. Of course, these cyberzombies didn't even have brains; though nominally built around dead people, the dead organic bits are completely useless (even Danny's brain must have decayed beyond use), and the same tech could just have easily created armies of pure robots out of thin air. And why bother saving the minds of the dead if they're just going to have their personalities erased when downloaded in the computers in the cyber bodies? And why were people like Danny that hadn't agreed to deletion downloaded in cyberbodies the first place? And why would the Doctor expect Danny to tell him anything once his emotions were turned off and he became an ordinary cyberman? Why was Danny angry at him for considering doing what both he and Clara wanted him to do? And how and why did he take Clara from St Paul's to a graveyard full of dangerous cyberzombies of all places, without UNIT noticing what he was doing?

And can someone explain why The Doctor *had* to take the army as Missy said, or everyone would die?

Presumably the Master wouldn't have deactivated the cloud unless he did what she asked. Though the real purpose of that was obviously to give an excuse for the cyberzombie army to destroy itself.

I found the idea that every nation on the planet would agree to hand over their military to some guy they'd never met pretty stupid as well.

They presumably know he's the guy who towed the Earth back into the solar system after the daleks stole the entire planet, amongst other things, so it doesn't strike me as entirely implausible that most national leaders would be willing to defer to him in the face of global alien threats. It was, however, completely irrelevant to the story, which was stupid. And no, the Brigadier certainly wouldn't have drugged and handcuffed the Doctor to enforce his cooperation.

I don't believe that Missy is dead

It hardly matters if she is; if so, she just ended up in the Nethersphere, and I think it's safe to assume she has a backup for the bracelet and was able to just walk out again in a new body just like Danny didn't and the kid did.

People are keep complaining about Moffat but I really cannot understand it

It's because his seasons are full of things that just don't make any sense. Like why the Master followed the Doctor around all time and space saving the minds of random people that died in proximity to him, and then did nothing with that? The only dead person that played a role was Danny, and he was part of the routine saving of everyone who dies on Earth, not one of the people who died in connection with the Doctor.

[Castel]

Hell, if the cyberzombie army can take on the daleks, it removes the alleged barrier to Gallifrey coming back.

They can't. That's kinda the point of the Daleks. (God I love that scene. "FOOUR"!)

And the love part didn't make sense at all; it's an emotion, exactly what the inhibitor is designed to suppress

It's Doctor Who. "Love",or any other form of sentimentality, is basically an excuse to do whatever the fuck they want to do. But, to be charitable, the Doctor may not have been speaking literally. Bulletproof vests are designed to stop gunshots, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't fail.

[red snow]

Finale was ok. The season arc fell a bit flat but at least the arc was merely 30s teasers at the end of every other episode.

It's an insult that only the loved ones of two of the Doctor's associates appear to be capable of enough love to overcome their programming. I guess there could have been cybermen all over the world hanging out with their loved ones though and we just didn't witness that. Shit flaw in the Master's plan though.

The teleport rather than turn to dust of the Master was a massive cop-out too.

I was also annoyed by clara and Danny wanting to turn off his emotions even though it was pretty damn obvious he'd kill her. Luckily it didn't matter as it didn't actually turn his emotions off even when he did. Otherwise it would have been stupid of Clara and selfish of Danny to go through with it.

Unless we find out Clara is pregnant there's a hole in space/time continuity with the future of the Pink family.

Can't say I mind one way or another whether Clara returns next season.

[mormont]

And the love part didn't make sense at all; it's an emotion, exactly what the inhibitor is designed to suppress.

Well, excuse the 'it's not an emotion' bit as poetic license, then. ;) The idea is that love prevails: it's so deep a part of who Danny is (and the Brigadier, too) that it can't be overcome. That's what matters.

Of course, these cyberzombies didn't even have brains; though nominally built around dead people, the dead organic bits are completely useless (even Danny's brain must have decayed beyond use), and the same tech could just have easily created armies of pure robots out of thin air.

But this is an objection that applies equally to every incarnation of both Cybermen and Daleks. We just have to assume that there's something about the mind that they need. Volition? Motive force? Something like that.

And why bother saving the minds of the dead if they're just going to have their personalities erased when downloaded in the computers in the cyber bodies?

Clearly their personalities weren't erased - only their emotions, which, though a major part of personality, isn't the entirety of it.

And why were people like Danny that hadn't agreed to deletion downloaded in cyberbodies the first place?

Bad timing. Danny hadn't agreed to it, but he was about to. He just got interrupted. So far as we know, he was the only one.

And why would the Doctor expect Danny to tell him anything once his emotions were turned off and he became an ordinary cyberman?

He didn't. He just hoped he would. It was their only chance to discover the information.

Why was Danny angry at him for considering doing what both he and Clara wanted him to do?

Because he was doing it for a different reason, one Danny considered hypocritical and indicative of a facet of the Doctor's personality that Danny has previously been shown to consider a danger to Clara.

It's because his seasons are full of things that just don't make any sense. Like why the Master followed the Doctor around all time and space saving the minds of random people that died in proximity to him, and then did nothing with that?

Made perfect sense to me, even if it was a bit underexplained. The idea is that the Doctor takes charge of the army and uses it, right? So by doing this Missy ensures that everywhere he goes, the Doctor takes these people he has sacrificed with him. He can't escape the reminder of his willingness to sacrifice others. Having the army is one thing, having an army (partially) made up of his victims is another.

[polishgenius]

Didn't like it at all. There were some good individual moments, but the whole was both hopelessly mawkish and a total logical mess.