Doctor Who Series 8; The time of the man that stops the monsters (v2)

[Black Wolf Smith]

And that's a failure on the part of some of the writers. Just like writing Asylum of the Daleks when they should have written Asylum of the Cybermen instead.

Damn, that is a good idea.

I think Missi was perfect as the female Mistress. For all the flaws that Doctor has had over the years, they have always hired the right person to play the part of Master/Mistress at the right time.

I think they did well by Mr. Pink. Even as a Cyberman, they kept true to himself. The only thing is what of the Astro Pink, at the end of time? They didn't explain it, unless....

I like the way the whole season so well played out (as a season) loved the Cybermen as the 2nd fiddle villain (because no one is head of The Master, except maybe the Doctor, if he ever choice that path)

I guess the surprise at the end, means Clara will be around for the X-mas special. She has been hit or miss this season. This ep she was a big hit, but who was the boy? I thought it was the boy from earlier in the season, the one she thought was....but how could that be?

[Lord_Baelish]

The boy was the one Danny killed in Iraq in the flashbacks and had been feeling guilty over.

I didn't like the episode. Then I decided to watch it again and it made for much better viewing the second time around. I feel it was an appropriate ending for this series. Sure, there were parts that were a bit dumb (Doctor as President of the World) but most of it just worked for me.

I liked the Doctor's line to Missy: "You always wanted to rule the world. Piece of cake."

And Nick Frost's cameo at the end was great. But then Nick Frost is always great.

[mormont]

It made perfect sense; they had relatively primitive technology at the time, needing big boxes on their chests to hold artificial organs too big to fit inside their bodies. If the original hands were working as well or better than any replacement they could come up with, why not leave them intact?

The argument here appears to be that it makes perfect sense, if only we first make some assumptions that let it make perfect sense.

But those assumptions aren't really tenable. Yes, the tech was relatively primitive: but it was still well in advance of tech that we have now, and we can build pretty good robot hands. Moreover, if you can build robot limbs that are superior to human ones, the idea that you can't do the same for hands is a bit difficult to credit. A human hand on the end of a robot arm limits the ability to deploy that arm's superior strength. Finally, if the idea is to reduce vulnerability, leaving the hands leaves a very visible, accessible and vulnerable spot.

So no, it makes no sense.

Except that preserving the organic life was the whole reason the cyberconversion process was developed in the first place, and there's no reason for them to exist otherwise.

That was the original motivation of the Mondas Cybermen, true: but it hasn't been their motivation for a long time, and it was never the motivation of the Cybus Cybermen (or these ones). These ones were built to be carriers for the dead, preserving them, if you like.

[felice]

But those assumptions aren't really tenable. Yes, the tech was relatively primitive: but it was still well in advance of tech that we have now, and we can build pretty good robot hands. Moreover, if you can build robot limbs that are superior to human ones, the idea that you can't do the same for hands is a bit difficult to credit. A human hand on the end of a robot arm limits the ability to deploy that arm's superior strength.

But can we connect robot hands to human nerves? We certainly couldn't in the 1960s. Hands are much more complex and delicate than arms or legs, and are important sensory organs as well as tools. They don't limit strength deployment that much, and it's a perfectly plausible tradeoff. There's no reason to think the arms are purely robotic either; more likely, they're enhanced rather than entirely replaced (many of the early designs have what appear to be intended as external limb enhancements).

Finally, if the idea is to reduce vulnerability, leaving the hands leaves a very visible, accessible and vulnerable spot.

Vulnerable in what sense? They don't care about pain, and if damaged, either the hands can be replaced with robot ones or the vulnerability is unavoidable.

That was the original motivation of the Mondas Cybermen, true: but it hasn't been their motivation for a long time, and it was never the motivation of the Cybus Cybermen

The Cybusmen were inferior to the originals, but they too were designed with the aim of prolonging life, and we see them transfer living brains into the robot shells (so it is only the brain for them, though Torchwood had other ideas, let down by appalling costume design). And the Cybusmen introduced the idea of an emotional inhibitor which could be disabled, restoring full original brain function.

[alguien]

It was an OK finale. Good moments and moments that were a bit wonky. I thought all the actors did a fine job.

Yes, killing her off seemed a bit of a waste. Maybe that was just her Zygon double, not the real Osgood? The guards watching Missy at the time were rather incompetent.

No, we saw her using her inhaler, so it had to be the real one.

Actually, both Osgood and her double needed the inhaler, so it's possible that the Zygon double was killed off.

Now that I think about it, that's really quite a good way for them to bring back any of the current UNIT staff if they wanted to. Osgood's death felt really abrupt to me. Bit of a waste.

[SpaceChampion]

Er... I've completely forgotten. When did Osgood get a Zygon double, and why does it still exist?

[Castel]

Er... I've completely forgotten. When did Osgood get a Zygon double, and why does it still exist?

50th Anniversay I think. Because we should all live together in peace.

[protar]

Er... I've completely forgotten. When did Osgood get a Zygon double, and why does it still exist?

How can you remember who Osgood is but not remember the only other plot line she's been in? :P

[SpaceChampion]

:dunno: Well, the Doctor did erase everyone's memories.

[Castel]

hm...nvm. I'll just google the summary.

[Jaxom 1974]

I was somewhat put out that there was no reference to the souls being saved by Missy throughout the season. Unless we're supposed to only think of the robots from earlier episodes as being thinly veiled references to the reveal of the Cybermen?

[Black Wolf Smith]

@Jaxom, I think part of showing Mr. Pink going thru the interviews was showing what Missi was doing w/ the others, before they were turned. But yea, I thought we see some more of at least some of them.

[Eddard Stark is online]

I thought Michelle Gomez was brilliant as Missy, although didn't understand why she kept switching between Scottish and English accents. Kinda weird, right? I lost interest in the show weeks ago, but after the 9.0 score for Dark Water on IMDB I thought I should give it a go. And I really enjoyed Dark Water, and it had raised my expectations for the finale, which turned out to be much in keeping with the rest of the series...mawkish difficult to follow in places and full of plot holes. I liked the idea of Danny becoming a Cyberman, but not the execution. And I liked the scene where Clara and the Doctor were lying to each other, that was clever.

My favourite part was finally knowing that Jenna Coleman is leaving the series after all. At last!

When there was a knock at the door of the TARDIS I was wondering if it might be the next companion. Erm, probably not eh?

[Lord_Baelish]

I wish. Having Nick Frost as the companion would be all sorts of awesome.

[Eddard Stark is online]

I was somewhat put out that there was no reference to the souls being saved by Missy throughout the season. Unless we're supposed to only think of the robots from earlier episodes as being thinly veiled references to the reveal of the Cybermen?

There were references. Maybe 3 or 4 times in the series, a character would die and appear in the 'Nethersphere'. Missy was there, and would declare "Welcome to 'heaven'! Tea?"

[Eddard Stark is online]

I wish. Having Nick Frost as the companion would be all sorts of awesome.

Although having Father Christmas as a companion might be stretching it just a tad. ;)

[Samalander]

Although having Father Christmas as a companion might be stretching it just a tad. ;)

I'd be happy if turned out not to be a youngish female human this time. Any chance?

[polishgenius]

My favourite part was finally knowing that Jenna Coleman is leaving the series after all. At last!

No she isn't.

Also, 'at last' is kinda weird for someone who's had a season and a half...

[Jaxom 1974]

There were references. Maybe 3 or 4 times in the series, a character would die and appear in the 'Nethersphere'. Missy was there, and would declare "Welcome to 'heaven'! Tea?"

Not what I meant. That there was no return to those particular people.

[Eddard Stark is online]

Not what I meant. That there was no return to those particular people.

Ah right, sorry. Yeah I see what you mean. I guess they just showed Danny's interviews with Chris Addison's character to show how it worked then. That would have been cool to have seen those particular people in the Nethersphere.