Tyrion Will Betray Dany

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

"The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them."

"[she saw] a white lion running through grass taller than a man."

I propose that Tyrion will be one of Daenerys' three betrayals, and he will betray her for Casterly Rock.

In the first passage posted above, Quaithe warns Dany of the men and various other things that are "coming for her" or present a danger to her. Among these things are the deadly disease known as the "pale mare," the "kraken," which is most certainly Victarion Greyjoy, the "griffin," who is Jon Connington (who currently has greyscale and is fighting for fAegon), the "sun's son," Quentyn Martell, who set her dragons free and virtually burned Meereen to the ground, and "the mummer's dragon," fAegon Targaryen.

Of these things that we can readily identify, all of them have been bad news for Dany so far. So why would Tyrion be any different, if we assume that he is the "lion" Quaithe speaks of?

Now, the second passage is one not often associated with Tyrion, and my reasoning for this one being included in this post is shaky. I propose that this "white lion" is Tyrion, and is actually a very small lion rather than one running through "grass as tall as a man." This "running through tall grass" could also be a metaphor for "snake in the grass," or someone who is hiding their true intentions. Also, the "white" could refer to Tyrion having patches of hair that are "so blond they are almost white." So I don't think it is too far fetched to think this "white lion" could actually be Tyrion.

Now, what does Tyrion want more than anything (other than revenge on his siblings)? That's right. Tyrion wants Casterly Rock. And what does Casterly Rock have? Gold. Could Tyrion be Dany's betrayal for gold, rather than Jorah, as Dany believes?

What do you think? Is this too crackpot? Or could I be on to something?

[BearQueen87]

Well, by the end of ADWD, Dany isn't sure what Jorah betrayed her for (her subconscious says "home" and she keeps getting mixed up on if it's love or gold after the incident with BBP), so I think that's a pretty big indication that Jorah isn't one of the three; Dany will realize that as well (not that that absolves him, of course).

As for Tyrion, if he is one of the betrayals, I think he might be love, not gold. He does want Casterly Rock and its wealth, but might he love Jaime more? If Dany demands Jaime's head to pay for Aerys, Tyrion might double cross her to save his brother.

If Tyrion does manage to tell Dany about Aerys and convince her that her father is not who she once thought, then I don't know why she would keep Casterly Rock (Gold) from him if he proves a loyal and trustworthy adviser.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

Well, by the end of ADWD, Dany isn't sure what Jorah betrayed her for (her subconscious says "home" and she keeps getting mixed up on if it's love or gold after the incident with BBP), so I think that's a pretty big indication that Jorah isn't one of the three; Dany will realize that as well (not that that absolves him, of course).

As for Tyrion, if he is one of the betrayals, I think he might be love, not gold. He does want Casterly Rock and its wealth, but might he love Jaime more? If Dany demands Jaime's head to pay for Aerys, Tyrion might double cross her to save his brother.

If Tyrion does manage to tell Dany about Aerys and convince her that her father is not who she once thought, then I don't know why she would keep Casterly Rock (Gold) from him if he proves a loyal and trustworthy adviser.

You have good points. I don't think Tyrion will end up being an advisor for her though, or at least not for very long like most people expect. I do believe he will be one of the three betrayals (much as I will hate that, as I love both Tyrion AND Dany), I'm just not certain which. He is just as likely to be the betrayal for love as you suggested.

[Good Guy Garlan]

As for Tyrion, if he is one of the betrayals, I think he might be love, not gold. He does want Casterly Rock and its wealth, but might he love Jaime more? If Dany demands Jaime's head to pay for Aerys, Tyrion might double cross her to save his brother.

This. I think the white lion might represent Jaime, and the fact that Drogo killed it could foreshadow a Jaime vs Drogon encounter. And then Tyrion betrays Dany, "The Ballad of the Sad Cafe" style, to repay Jaime for saving his life, because a Lannister always pays his debts, and Tyrion told Jaime as much when they parted ways

[Magnolia]

Now, what does Tyrion want more than anything (other than revenge on his siblings)? That's right. Tyrion wants Casterly Rock. And what does Casterly Rock have? Gold.

I always felt, that Tyrion didn't want Casterly Rock, because he liked the castle, but that his motivation was to get it despite Tywins refusal. Kind of revenge-like.

But maybe that changed. Now he needs a lot of gold to pay back the golden company.

Or could it be, that "gold" doesn't refer to "money", but maybe something like "Goldhand" or the "Golden Company"?

I don't see yet why tyrion should be a WHITE lion. With his hair he could be a black-and-white lion. (I could see him changing his sigil though. Declaring, that he's a golden lion without gold, so that he must be a white lion in fact.) I think Jaime is closer to being a white lion (Lannister + White Cloak).

[Nictarion]

Well, by the end of ADWD, Dany isn't sure what Jorah betrayed her for (her subconscious says "home" and she keeps getting mixed up on if it's love or gold after the incident with BBP), so I think that's a pretty big indication that Jorah isn't one of the three; Dany will realize that as well (not that that absolves him, of course).

As for Tyrion, if he is one of the betrayals, I think he might be love, not gold. He does want Casterly Rock and its wealth, but might he love Jaime more? If Dany demands Jaime's head to pay for Aerys, Tyrion might double cross her to save his brother.

If Tyrion does manage to tell Dany about Aerys and convince her that her father is not who she once thought, then I don't know why she would keep Casterly Rock (Gold) from him if he proves a loyal and trustworthy adviser.

I agree with all of this.

[TheSpymaster]

Tyrion never bets against his family...he hates cersei..but he loves other lannisters. So he probably would betray dany..give wrong council to her..:-/

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion has Viserion but commits to neither side in the dance as his father did during Robert's Rebellion. Dany kills Aegon, Tyrion captures Jaime (Viserion resting on the Hrakkar pelt, claws into head). Tyrion ingratiates himself with the winning party with a grand gesture by bringing Jaime to Dany for judgement, as Tywin ingratiated himself to Robert with a grand gesture by killing the royal children. Dany trials Jaime for murdering Aerys, Jaime lets fly with the truth of why he killed Aerys. KL and basically the whole world side with Jaime, Tyrion remembers he loves Jaime (two headed dream, weeping head) but Dany sentences him to death (Tyrion's dream that he is Jaime and Dany has him executed). The city revolts against the mad queen and tosses her out and Tyrion saves Jaime during the chaos, because he loves him, and becomes a hero of the people in the process.

[Maid So Fair]

I think it's a bit premature to talk about betrayal between two people who have yet to meet. We can assume that Tyrion will join Dany, but we don't know the exact circumstances, whether she will believe him and to what extent. We also don't know exactly what she will do once she reaches Westeros and what else will have transpired by that point that could affect their level of trust or his relationship with his family and his motivations.

The glass candles talk about Tyrion, but also some other characters some of which are ostensibly there to help Dany, Tyrion included. The are part of the prophecy because every single one of them has ulterior motives as well.

Isn't the white lion the one that Drogo slew for her?

[BearQueen87]

Isn't the white lion the one that Drogo slew for her?

Drogo went out hunting for the lion with the other Dothraki men; he told Dany he would take her a pelt from its skin. She wears the pelt quite often to "feel safe."

[MoIaF]

Drogo went out hunting for the lion with the other Dothraki men; he told Dany he would take her a pelt from its skin. She wears the pelt quite often to "feel safe."

It's also the same pelt that Viserion held on to when he was coiled around Dany's arm. Drawing perhaps a connection between the three (Dany, Viserion and Tyrion).

[Maid So Fair]

Drogo went out hunting for the lion with the other Dothraki men; he told Dany he would take her a pelt from its skin. She wears the pelt quite often to "feel safe."

Yeah, that one. It's just an object, certainly, but it's also very important for Dany since it signifies safety and is generally a reminder of Drogo and their (simpler) times together so I never thought it would signify anything/anyone else. I suppose the pelt could be a red herring, though.

[BearQueen87]

It's also the same pelt that Viserion held on to when he was coiled around Dany's arm. Drawing perhaps a connection between the three (Dany, Viserion and Tyrion).

Yeah, that one. It's just an object, certainly, but it's also very important for Dany since it signifies safety and is generally a reminder of Drogo and their (simpler) times together so I never thought it would signify anything/anyone else. I suppose the pelt could be a red herring, though.

I agree with MOIAF.

Add in the WOW sample spoiler

about Tyrion picking up the white dragon

and I do think the connection is there between the three.

I don't think Tyrion's future betrayal (should there be one) will have anything to do with Viserion (who is named after a second son, and Tyrion is a second son, so there's another possible connection) but he might use his dragon to help free Jaime for love.

Also, while it be a betrayal, I don't know how Dany would react to it. If she trusts Tyrion and he has told her hard truths, Dany might not wroth with Tyrion after the betrayal. One thing she (hopefully) has learned from the Jorah incident is that people can do crappy things that are "betrayal" but their reasons are complicated and complex and it doesn't necessarily mean that you should turn them out. She was going to forgive Jorah until he started talking; and while Tyrion has a similar problem with his tongue, he is much more skilled at talking his way out of situations.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I agree that any betrayal on Tyrions part will be for Jaime.

[Mithras]

Comparing Maggy's prophecy with the HotU prophecies, gold can be used as a metaphor for crown and the treason for gold might mean that a person will betray Dany to get a crown for his/her own.

[BearQueen87]

Comparing Maggy's prophecy with the HotU prophecies, gold can be used as a metaphor for crown and the treason for gold might mean that a person will betray Dany to get a crown for his/her own.

Interesting interpretation. Could be Aegon if he and Dany form an alliance at first that then goes sour if, say, Auntie Dany doesn't want to give up a dragon.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I agree that there's sufficient symbolism thus far to link Tyrion to Viserion. Whether that means Tyrion will ride that dragon or be killed by that dragon or merely encounter that dragon is harder to say.

The white dragon piece that Tyrion collects in the WoW preview has blood on it, from an immediately prior act of violence. Does this symbolize Tyrion getting the dragon to do violence, the dragon doing violence against Tyrion?

I'm not sure I'd use the word "betrayal," though, if we're talking about Tyrion eventually splitting from Dany's faction over what I'd presume to be something like her threatening to harm Jaime. I've been rather vocal against the idea that Tyrion will somehow easily and immediately fix Dany's conundrums, because I think that's pretty unrealistic. There's this idea that Dany just needs Tyrion to walk into the room and, boom, problems solved. I actually wonder if there won't be some sort of symmetry between the advice Tyrion offered Aegon and what he may offer Dany. The first advice was, apparently, underhanded or not meant to succeed, and yet it did. On the flip side, will Tyrion give Dany advice that's intended to work, but doesn't?

I think it's important to remember too that Tyrion ultimately sees Dany as a means to an end, which may be why Quaithe warned her about him. He doesn't believe in her cause; he wants the means to go back to Westeros and hurt Cersei and claim Casterly Rock, and he also likes the idea of giving a "fuck you" to Tywin by supporting Aerys's daughter. I'm not sure betrayal is the right word for that sort of arrangement eventually breaking, if it does. Whereas with Jorah, there was a definite and sincere friendship/emotional bond between them, even if Dany didn't requite his romantic advances, that made that betrayal legitimately painful.

[BearQueen87]

I think it's important to remember too that Tyrion ultimately sees Dany as a means to an end, which may be why Quaithe warned her about him. He doesn't believe in her cause; he wants the means to go back to Westeros and hurt Cersei and claim Casterly Rock, and he also likes the idea of giving a "fuck you" to Tywin by supporting Aerys's daughter. I'm not sure betrayal is the right word for that sort of arrangement eventually breaking, if it does. Whereas with Jorah, there was a definite and sincere friendship/emotional bond between them, even if Dany didn't requite his romantic advances, that made that betrayal legitimately painful.

Now that you mention it, "betrayal" might be too powerful a word to use for any of the three so-called betrayals that have passed/will pass. Did MMD really betray Dany? Was she really ever loyal to Dany in the first place? Jorah's betrayal, which isn't one of the three, is an actual betrayal because of his sincere loyalty and feelings to Dany. Same with BBP, though he is not one of the three either. There was actual affection there.

I agree that Tyrion wouldn't give two figs for Dany and her cause if he didn't think she could get him the Rock. And while I do think Dany and Tyrion will have a careful "friendship" anything he does against her isn't so much against her but for his family.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

Bump

[Fire Eater]

Tyrion will betray Dany? And Mormont shits in the woods.

I think Tyrion does see Dany primarily as a means to an end, but I think he will eventually come to care for her.

Comparing Maggy's prophecy with the HotU prophecies, gold can be used as a metaphor for crown and the treason for gold might mean that a person will betray Dany to get a crown for his/her own.

I don't think Tyrion will betray Dany for CR, given he needs her to back his claim. Cersei won't, neither will Stannis, and I doubt Aegon will with the second Dance. He has no delusions of grandeur, he can't claim a crown on his own. Who is to say Tyrion won't get one by possibly marrying Dany?

I think Tyrion is more likely the treason for love. I think Jaime will be captured in battle, and brought before Dany, likely given a trial for murdering her father. I think Jaime would likely tell her the reason for killing Aerys, he wouldn't be breaking his vows since as Barristan said, Aerys's secrets would go to her. Tyrion would mention that the pyromancers found hidden caches of wildfire buried beneath all of KL from her father's reign during preparations for the BoBW, which is evidence for Jaime's story. I think it would be a reverse of their situations in ASoS. Jaime would be waiting for the morrow to be executed for regicide, only to have Tyrion help him escape.