(Spoilers) Once Upon a Time (the Third)

[Lady Octarina]

So much shipping material in a single episode! :drool: (talking about Dragon Queen,of course)

I don't know what I expected, but it certainly wasn't what we ended up getting. I mean, for villains, the story of how Regina and Maleficent became friends is actually quite sweet, and surprising that Regina ended up bringing the other over to the dark side, not the opposite. I hope there's more flashbacks of them, though I doubt it, and I wonder if we're seeing what exactly Mal's past with Aurora's parents was. I also wonder what kind of parallel they're making here - Regina helped Mal get out of depression and find herself and her magic once again in the past, so is Mal doing the same for her, maybe helping her get Robin back and not falling to the dark side again? Because, the way Maleficent is written and appears onscreen, I doubt she's staying a villain by the end of this arc. I hope she sticks around Storybrooke, though, again, I doubt it.

Something also has to be said about the acting; while Robert Carlyle once again made us feel more sorry for Rumple than he should, Kristin Bauer and Lana Parrilla stole the show. All their interactions were perfect, particularly the way Regina and Mal seem to be always invading the other's personal space as an intimidation method (something Rumple does as well, btw, but with them it's more subtle than the other villains), plus the excellent chemistry. And I love how they can show their characters' vulnerability - Mal in the castle, Regina when trying to play villain without becoming one once again - without making them appear weak.

Not to say this episode didn't have problems: the world of OUAT is not so big that King Stefan wouldn't know Leopold's queen, come on! It's neighboring kingdoms, or close to that! And I still think it's ridiculous how the "Are you still a bad girl, Regina?" "The worst" *drinks a shot and crushes the glass* went. I mean, seriously? Drinking alcohol and breaking glass is supposed to prove anything? :rofl:

And I hope there are actual consequences this time around. Regina has to get into some real danger, both physical and soul-related, for Snow White to realize what a selfish brat she still is and actually repent for something (I like Snow, but there should be consequences; plus, think of all the great angst we're getting from that!). It's also interesting how we got the most instances of Regina's suicidal tendencies in a single episode last night: going to face what she had every reason to believe was a very powerful and angry dragon-sorceress, facing a king and his guard on her own because her companion was probably powerless, going into Granny's and challenging the QoD to kill her (plus the whole undercover mission was a danger in itself), and probably more. I just love how the QoD's first test to see if this was still the same Regina of old was if she was still as suicidal as in the past, or if she would actually, you know, choose to live instead of being killed by a train. :cool4:

And no, I can't even be properly excited about August being back (hoping he sticks around and becomes Emma's new love interest again, because, come on, somebody get rid of the pirate mascot!) when there are so many amazing Queens of Darkness moments (and we're counting Regina and Rumple as QoD, right?). Those five, they're just too fabulous, the screen can barely take two of them together, much less five! F*ck the heroes; OUAT should be about the QoD now! :bowdown:

Nope, I'm never forgiving OUAT for making me ship Ursula/Cruella and Evil Queen/Maleficent. 7-year-old me would be mortified!

[Tijgy]

Does anyone also have questions about the rose Belle found outside? I s it certain Will gave that rose or is it possible Rumple gave it her? When I saw that rose I started to wonder of what that rose reminded me. It took me a long time before I reminded that Rumple gave Belle a rose still in the EF.

Question about Will in OUATIW

Is Will associated with roses? Or is Ana?

I also love to see how Rumple is planning again. Of 300 years scheming to cast the dark curse we saw that very fragmentary. We knew what his endgame before we saw every step. But I love how we now see each scheme for scheme, step for step, ... without we know what his endgame was. What is Rumple now doing? First he is manipulating Belle into giving his dagger and into making sure she will quiet. And then he shows himself to Regina while he may or may not know she is undercover.

Rumple, Rumple, you little schemer, what are you doing?

Mal en Regina were of course magnificent together.

[HexMachina]

Just dropping in to say the show is on UK Netflix now, and I've made a start already. 4 episodes down in a single evening, oh dear. Procrastination at its fines

*prepares to devour spoilers*t

[the hound of sansa]

i hope Maleficent stays in Storybrook after everything is over, she is really interesting. Can't say the same for the other 2 Queens, at least not yet. Maybe after they show a flashback episode i will care more.

[Lady Octarina]

Okay, OUAT is just messing with us now, right? One week Regina rides Maleficent, the next she enters Snow White, wtf! :smileysex: And what's the deal with Mal and Cruella creepily watching Regina as she sleeps? Not even gonna say anything about Maleficent offering her drugs :cool4:

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode. On one hand, Ursula's story is a lot more innocent, sweet, than I expected, but it's also considerably sillier than the character deserved. Younger Ursula is adorable, but her reasons for becoming a villain were the same level of ridiculous as Archie's reason for wanting to be a cricket, of all things, or Hook's for becoming a pirate. Which only goes to show OUAT does have some consistency after all...

Anyone else frustrated about

Ursula leaving the story this soon? I mean, I knew the Queens of Darkness weren't going to be around until the last episode of the season, but I thought they would at least only leave in the same episode. Instead, Ursula barely gets any attention outside of this episode, on a show that has a terrible history with how they treat most of their POC, Well, at least she's not dead. I hope she'll come back on flashbacks, though.

And, omg, the CGI. I had forgotten how ridiculous wooden August looked, but it's nothing compared to human August with a Pinocchio nose. What the hell were they thinking? They shouldn't make us laugh on a torture scene! :rofl:

I did miss August, though. I hope he sticks around, though I doubt it.

Same thing with Regina possessing Snow - I couldn't stop laughing at the absurdity of that scene. :rofl: But hey, cool, Regina can turn into smoke and possess people now, apparently. Or maybe it's just Snow. :dunno:

And then there's Hook. I'm tired of this show white-washing his actions - Hook is a lot more interesting when he's just an unrepentant, selfish villain. But no, he's so invested on being good now, and his reasons for that are surely not limited to getting into Emma's pants. :bang: So, yes, I was screaming at the screen when Ariel saved him (and let's not even talk about whatever it was Elsa did to his ship :bang: ).

But you know what I really don't get? What's the deal with people on this show wanting to kill a pirate by throwing them in the sea? Or do none of their pirates know how to swim? Because the only way I see that working is if they're tied up, or if they're bleeding and there are sharks on those waters, which certainly wasn't the case here. :pirate:

And then there's Rumple... I really don't see how they're going to redeem him, or even keep him around, after this. Not just the torture, and deceiving Belle yet again, but the whole manipulating yet another kind girl into becoming his monster.

I saw the teaser for next episode and... on one hand, yay, Maleficent drama, Kristin Bauer making us all cry again! On the other, really not looking forward to dark Emma (not looking forward to anything Emma, really. Right now, she annoys me as much as David Nolan did back in season one).

And when is the Cruella episode? :drool:

[Elba the Intoner]

Okay, OUAT is just messing with us now, right? One week Regina rides Maleficent, the next she enters Snow White, wtf! :smileysex: And what's the deal with Mal and Cruella creepily watching Regina as she sleeps? Not even gonna say anything about Maleficent offering her drugs :cool4:

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode. On one hand, Ursula's story is a lot more innocent, sweet, than I expected, but it's also considerably sillier than the character deserved. Younger Ursula is adorable, but her reasons for becoming a villain were the same level of ridiculous as Archie's reason for wanting to be a cricket, of all things, or Hook's for becoming a pirate. Which only goes to show OUAT does have some consistency after all...

Anyone else frustrated about

Ursula leaving the story this soon? I mean, I knew the Queens of Darkness weren't going to be around until the last episode of the season, but I thought they would at least only leave in the same episode. Instead, Ursula barely gets any attention outside of this episode, on a show that has a terrible history with how they treat most of their POC, Well, at least she's not dead. I hope she'll come back on flashbacks, though.

And, omg, the CGI. I had forgotten how ridiculous wooden August looked, but it's nothing compared to human August with a Pinocchio nose. What the hell were they thinking? They shouldn't make us laugh on a torture scene! :rofl:

I did miss August, though. I hope he sticks around, though I doubt it.

Same thing with Regina possessing Snow - I couldn't stop laughing at the absurdity of that scene. :rofl: But hey, cool, Regina can turn into smoke and possess people now, apparently. Or maybe it's just Snow. :dunno:

And then there's Hook. I'm tired of this show white-washing his actions - Hook is a lot more interesting when he's just an unrepentant, selfish villain. But no, he's so invested on being good now, and his reasons for that are surely not limited to getting into Emma's pants. :bang: So, yes, I was screaming at the screen when Ariel saved him (and let's not even talk about whatever it was Elsa did to his ship :bang: ).

But you know what I really don't get? What's the deal with people on this show wanting to kill a pirate by throwing them in the sea? Or do none of their pirates know how to swim? Because the only way I see that working is if they're tied up, or if they're bleeding and there are sharks on those waters, which certainly wasn't the case here. :pirate:

And then there's Rumple... I really don't see how they're going to redeem him, or even keep him around, after this. Not just the torture, and deceiving Belle yet again, but the whole manipulating yet another kind girl into becoming his monster.

I saw the teaser for next episode and... on one hand, yay, Maleficent drama, Kristin Bauer making us all cry again! On the other, really not looking forward to dark Emma (not looking forward to anything Emma, really. Right now, she annoys me as much as David Nolan did back in season one).

And when is the Cruella episode? :drool:

For the most part I did enjoy the last episode very much. The ending really has my interest piqued. But you do bring up some good points about the inherent problems with the show. I agree that ever since they turned Hook into a "good guy" and love interest for Emma that his character has gone down hill. Not that I don't mind a redemption arc of some kind, and pretty much all the villains so far have really been made to be redeemable in terms of the reasons that they started down their dark paths were all for love gone wrong in some way (except for Peter Pan who was really into some sickly manipulative mind games), but how they have handled this with Hook is just so hamfisted and syrupy (is that a word lol?). And yeah they are about to take Rumple down the opposite path of totally becoming irredeemable, which would be a shame.

It does seem like Ursula's story and departure from the show was very abrupt. I like the actress as I remember her from the King of Queens.

[Warg Arry]

I have a lot to say. (Mostly just emphatically agreeing with you both) But I need a few spare minutes free to go there.

I just wanted to say. Can you imagine if Regina had of possessed Emma instead of Snow. Tumblr would have imploded just from the collective gasps of SwanQueen feels.

[Corvinus85]

I have a lot to say. (Mostly just emphatically agreeing with you both) But I need a few spare minutes free to go there.

I just wanted to say. Can you imagine if Regina had of possessed Emma instead of Snow. Tumblr would have imploded just from the collective gasps of SwanQueen feels.

I don't think that's possible due to Emma's magical powers. Snow has no magic.

[Lady Octarina]

I like to think she could only possess Snow because of the connection they probably share. I mean, of the people still in her life, Snow is the one she has known for the longest time, and, for better or worse, she was her mother for a few years, and she continues to act on a motherly role very frequently.

[Arkash]

So, hello everyone !

Just finished watching all four seasons (well, what we have so far I mean) in two weeks ! Completely hooked (yeah, sorry, I'm new, I deserve to do it at least once... upon a... no, enough... :drunk: ).

Anyway gonna read what you guys think of the latest events.

Although I may would have liked a story arc than didnt involve three more new evil queens (c'mon, we got enough of that) I must admit it's handled pretty good and I expect the last episodes of the season to be quite interesting !

[Lady Octarina]

These past two episodes... wow.

Okay, the one from two weeks ago first: I think it's great that they're showing us how Snow and her prince aren't as heroic as they seem, but what they did to Maleficent... honestly, I think that's a lot worse than most of the things done by the villains, because not only did they essentially doom a child's soul or whatever, but they justified it by saying it wouldn't be human?! Wtf? Add to that Kristin Bauer's ability to bring tears to our eyes, and I think it's pretty unavoidable for everyone to root for her, not the heroes, at this point. Kudos for Cruella and Ursula for trying to protect her baby, too adorable. And, of course, the identity of Mal's child is no surprise, but nice to see it confirmed anyway.

As for the Author, I'm divided; I don't know if I love it or hate it that he's just some random asshole who has nothing to do with the characters we know.

Okay, last night's episode. I wanted to like it, I really did, because the OUAT fandom has been throwing so much hate Sean Maguire's way recently and all that, but the episode itself was kid of dull, particularly the flashbacks. Another miracle performed by this show, making the love story of Robin Hood and Maid Marian so boring; part of it from the writing, the other part from the lack of chemistry between the actors. And then there's the big reveal.

I couldn't escape the spoilers, so I already knew Zelena was Marian. On one hand, yay, Zelena is back! You have to love how gleefully

evil wicked she is! :devil: On the other... yuck, it was bad enough to see her making out with her mother's ex, now her sister's as well? Get a grip, lady! But poor Rumple, literally broken-hearted and having to deal with Zelena while completely helpless - again. No wonder he's gone off the edge that way! And poor Regina, the look in her eyes when she realizes everything that is going on... ouch. :crying:

One thing that made me laugh: how adorably oblivious Roland is to all the tension around him. :bowdown:

So, a few questions:

1. I thought it had been six weeks between the first and second half of the season? Where do those extra three weeks fit - is it the time Rumple has spent eating Ursula's food in her apartment, or have the Queens of Darkness been in Storybrooke for longer than it seemed?
   
2. Are they going to use Zelena's manipulation as a way to whitewash Rumple's "return" to darkness, or will he finally be held accountable for his choices?
   
3. who even payed for his hospital bill, and where was he leaving in the weeks between arriving in New York and meeting Ursula?
   
4. when he said those things about grasping his happy ending and all that to Robin, was he playing into Zelena's gaming, or subtly trying to manipulate him into leaving "Marian" as a small revenge against Zelena but Robin completely misunderstood his meaning?
   
5. And how can Robin not notice that's not Marian?! Even more, how can Zelena avoid mirrors around Roland and him for nine weeks?
   
6. finally, wtf is wrong with you, OUAT writers? That last scene, Rumple making Regina choose between Robin's life and Emma's soul, that was so ridiculously unnecessary and so clearly the beginning of another ship war....
   

Anyway, whatever else this season might have been, it keeps giving us amazing scenes between Robert Carlyle and the best actresses in the cast: Lana Parrilla, Bex Madder, Elizabeth Mitchell, all Queens of Darkness... All that's missing is Cora!

Next week, Cruella! :bowdown:

[Tijgy]

These past two episodes... wow.

(...)

I couldn't escape the spoilers, so I already knew Zelena was Marian. On one hand, yay, Zelena is back! You have to love how gleefully

evil wicked she is! :devil: On the other... yuck, it was bad enough to see her making out with her mother's ex, now her sister's as well? Get a grip, lady! But poor Rumple, literally broken-hearted and having to deal with Zelena while completely helpless - again. No wonder he's gone off the edge that way! And poor Regina, the look in her eyes when she realizes everything that is going on... ouch. :crying:

Zelena is really insane and cruel. Poor Rumple. He was here (again?) sexual harassed by her. She even got off by seeing him die. I am sorry but IMO I can't see why someone would root for her. She is one of the most evil villains who has been in OUAT.

One thing that made me laugh: how adorably oblivious Roland is to all the tension around him. :bowdown:

Poor Roland. He will certainly be confused. So my mum is actually still dead? It is so awful how they play with that poor child feelings.

So, a few questions:

I thought it had been six weeks between the first and second half of the season? Where do those extra three weeks fit - is it the time Rumple has spent eating Ursula's food in her apartment, or have the Queens of Darkness been in Storybrooke for longer than it seemed?

I must admit I don't understand a lot of the time line. Sometimes I wonder if the writers do. It has indeed been six weeks between Rumple leaving SB and meeting Ursula. And in darkness on the Edge of the Town Hook says they spent six weeks on to find a way to free the fairies. So that means he spent only a few days in Ursula's apartment?

There are indeed questions about how many days they needed to get to NY, how many days Rumple spent in the hospital and where he was between the hospital and Ursula's apartment. Or would he had been in the hospital for six weeks? Like I said, I don't understand the time lines. :bang:

Are they going to use Zelena's manipulation as a way to whitewash Rumple's "return" to darkness, or will he finally be held accountable for his choices?

His "return to darkness" started when he killed Zelena or at least when he started to blackmail to put the Apprentice into the hat. He did various bad things in 4A because he wanted free himself from the dagger. And he wanted that mainly because he was enslaved, tortured by Zelena. It was still his choices how he did that but IMO those decisions were influenced by those traumatic experiences.

(This is actually the way how I explain Rumple's actions to myself. Before season 4 Rumple had also done a lot evil things but most of them were actually influenced by his desire to find his son or to punish the people who hurt his son or Belle)

In 4A they also left Rumple more disillusioned than before. While in season 2 he said to Regina you can't have everything he actually thinks he can have power and Belle in 4.

In 4B we have actually seen more the different facets of Rumple's complicated character. His more evil sides when he tortured August and his more depressed sights when he saw Belle.

When he agreed to strike a deal with Zelena. I was first: "Rumple, really. You actually don't mean that". And than I remembered his will of self preservation.

Questions: did she already give the potion to him or did she wait? Why would he still need the potion if he is actually in SB? What rules does he need to change? A lot of questions are still unanswered IMO.

I don't believe Zelena's blackmail can really whitewash the deeds Rumple has done. She didn't directly force him to torture August or kidnap Regina or release the Chernaborg (Did he actually do some other "evil" actions after the mid-finale? Not really I think. So evil is he not really. And finding the Author before the heroes is IMO not evil. He has the same right to do that as the heroes.

It does however make you (again) sympathise a lot with Rumple. And I think it gives you finally a insight how traumatic last year really was for him and makes finally understand more how desperately he wanted to free from his dagger.

But still it doesn't the means he used/is using to accomplish his (not evil!) goals.

And I think everyone in the series holds Rumple accountable for his actions, even while you could wonder how much actions could be influenced by the curse of the Dark One. They keep repeating how evil the DO is, ...

Everyone says to Hook. It wasn't your fault to trap the Apprentice in the hat. Yes, he was blackmailed by Rumple but he had still the choice not to help Rumple. They hold him here not accountable for his actions. Hook says "I was tricked by the crocodile". Yeah, but you had still a choice and

Who even payed for his hospital bill, and where was he leaving in the weeks between arriving in New York and meeting Ursula?

Like I said no idea. Did he really leave without his wallet? Gold is rich, no? Maybe he gave up his address up in SB. Suddenly Belle gets a very expensive bill.

It is actually very representative how his relationship was broken between Belle and Rumple that Rumple even did not called about his trip to the hospital.

When he said those things about grasping his happy ending and all that to Robin, was he playing into Zelena's gaming, or subtly trying to manipulate him into leaving "Marian" as a small revenge against Zelena but Robin completely misunderstood his meaning?

I believe he was telling her truth how he really feels at that moment. Everytime Rumple opens up about his feelings he is actually telling the truth IMO. He sounds here very sincere and he even didn't plan this encounter. But you can still wonder why he would say those things.

He begins with saying: "If it is within your grasp, if you know what it is and whose is with ..." IMO he sounds here very sincere and does not have an other agenda.

Even he has an other agenda, it is quite ambiguous what it was but I believe Rumple is showing here a lot of sincerity, so it would more a little warning about Zelena?

And in the end it is still Robin who decided to choose for Marian. (Like I believe Snow and Charming decided to eggnapp Mal's child and to swap good/evil blabla, nevertheless they were influenced/manipulated by the Author. They were not forced to do that under duress.

And how can Robin not notice that's not Marian?! Even more, how can Zelena avoid mirrors around Roland and him for nine weeks?

How old was Roland when he saw last his mother? He probably doesn't remember before her "return to the living".

A lot of time passed between the last time they saw each other. And Robin thinks already she is like a stranger. Still when you see someone looking like your wife I believe a lot should happen before you think she is impersonated by someone else. Especially in a land without magic. However Robin was actually familiar with that spell/pendant. So my conclusion: he is not all that smart a guy.

Finally, wtf is wrong with you, OUAT writers? That last scene, Rumple making Regina choose between Robin's life and Emma's soul, that was so ridiculously unnecessary and so clearly the beginning of another ship war....'

Anyway, whatever else this season might have been, it keeps giving us amazing scenes between Robert Carlyle and the best actresses in the cast: Lana Parrilla, Bex Madder, Elizabeth Mitchell, all Queens of Darkness... All that's missing is Cora!

Robert Carlyle and Bex Madder were indeed great together. Robert Carlyle can really make me get annoyed at Rumple, feel sorry for him and root for him at the same time. Really Amazing. Perfect how Rumple first refused to look at Regina's eyes when he started to blackmail her.

And it is however sad the only reason why Regina would think Rumple would never help Zelena is because she murdered his son. Lets forget the entire year of enslavement?

Next week, Cruella! :bowdown:

[The Amethyst Empress]

Well,I didn't see that coming

Zelena,wow the wicked bitch is back...That was f*cked up,poor Robin and Regina!

I kinda liked the plot twist,I usually see them coming(like Lilly=Malificent's child) but I was really surprised with this one!

I don't get Zelena's end game though...She can't come back to Storybrook right?She'll freeze again.Is it enough to steal with her sister's boyfriend or does she want something else?

Finally,I'm sure that Rumble will find a way to screw her over,she killed his son ffs...

[Lady Octarina]

I am sorry but IMO I can't see why someone would root for her. She is one of the most evil villains who has been in OUAT.

I don't root for Zelena, just like I don't root for Cora or, honestly, Rumplestiltskin. It's just the actors who play them are all so good that I want them to be kept on the show, at the very least for all the mess they always make. And, before this episode, I was actually hoping that, when Zelena returned, she might have an actual redemption arc and eventually have a good relationship with Regina, but after this... there are some serious consent issues going on with her pretending to be Marian; she essentially emotionally blackmailed then raped her sister's soulmate. I don't see how that can be fixed, kind of like I don't see how Rumple can be redeemed at this point.

Poor Roland. He will certainly be confused. So my mum is actually still dead? It is so awful how they play with that poor child feelings.

I'm not entirely sure how much he understands of what's going on, tbh. The kid is what? Four, five? It seems to me that much more traumatizing than losing the mother he barely knew again is his being taken away from the Merry Men, who he's been around all his life, and possibly Regina, who he seems to have gotten close with in the missing year. He'll have been around Marilena for what, three months, by the time her mask falls? He'll recover, certainly more easily than the adults.

Much harder for him to understand would probably be how his father couldn't protect them from this mess (since kids that age see their parents as almighty beings who can make no mistakes and all that).

Questions: did she already give the potion to him or did she wait? Why would he still need the potion if he is actually in SB? What rules does he need to change? A lot of questions are still unanswered IMO.

I have the same questions. I have no idea why he would continue to do her bidding once he's returned to Storybrooke. My best guess is that she gave him just enough for him to fulfill his mission, and then she'd give him the rest, and maybe once his heart failed there's no return, even back in town, maybe that potion is truly the only thing that can fix it, and the ingredients are impossible to find outside of Oz or something.

It's probably just a plot hole, though.

I don't believe Zelena's blackmail can really whitewash the deeds Rumple has done. She didn't directly force him to torture August or kidnap Regina or release the Chernaborg (Did he actually do some other "evil" actions after the mid-finale? Not really I think. So evil is he not really. And finding the Author before the heroes is IMO not evil. He has the same right to do that as the heroes.

The narrative tends to forgive Rumple a bit too easily at times. The truth is, the character loses its purpose once his happy ending is gone (and he might love Belle, but his happy ending was his son, the only one he was willing to change for). Unless they bring Bae back, I can't see how they will redeem him.

Finding the Author is not evil, the problem is that Rumple and the Queens of Darkness want to rewrite things so villains get their happy endings and heroes don't.

And I think everyone in the series holds Rumple accountable for his actions, even while you could wonder how much actions could be influenced by the curse of the Dark One. They keep repeating how evil the DO is, ...

They do, but it usually takes them a lot of convincing for that. How long did it take Regina to admit the part he played in turning her into his monster? And Belle, how long until she stopped letting him manipulate her?

You mention the curse of the Dark One, and I wonder if Rumple might end up getting rid of it somehow. But if he stops being the DO and loses his magic, what is there left of the character? That's the only way he might get a chance of being happy with Belle, but on every other aspect he would just go back to being the coward he was back in the day, and that's kind of pathetic.

However Robin was actually familiar with that spell/pendant. So my conclusion: he is not all that smart a guy.

lol Pretty much this.

Robert Carlyle and Bex Madder were indeed great together. Robert Carlyle can really make me get annoyed at Rumple, feel sorry for him and root for him at the same time. Really Amazing. Perfect how Rumple first refused to look at Regina's eyes when he started to blackmail her.

:agree:

Not to mention the look on Regina's face when she realizes Rumple is manipulating her again, and how, how it changed from despair, anger, disappointment, sadness, and who knows what else, all within a few seconds. We need more scenes of those two. :bowdown:

And it is however sad the only reason why Regina would think Rumple would never help Zelena is because she murdered his son. Lets forget the entire year of enslavement?

They tend to ignore the darker examples of abuse they introduce on the show. I mean, remember when Regina was tortured for two days straight in a warehouse, then the following day was off going to Neverland to rescue her son and no one ever brought up that traumatic incident again, even though Snow White actually felt what her former stepmother was going through in her own skin with the use of magic?

And how can we expect this show to remember the year Rumple was Zelena's slave when this last episode was the first time they even mentioned Nealfire again since season three?

I don't get Zelena's end game though...She can't come back to Storybrook right?She'll freeze again.Is it enough to steal with her sister's boyfriend or does she want something else?

Actually, I don't think she'll freeze again. Okay, she was frozen the first time around, when she had the ice cream (and how great isn't it that the Snow Queen messed up with Zelena's plan in such a drastic way without ever realizing it? :rofl: ), but once Ingrid was defeated, she was certainly healed. I think she only pretended to be sick again to twist the knife, you know - she went to the diner and gave that whole speech to Regina about how she was okay with Robin choosing her and all that, to give her sister hope, waited until Robin chose Regina and they were having a lovely moment together in the park, and then what does she do? She collapses, knowing they will save "Marian" no matter what, and that the only way for that to happen is to break Robin and Regina apart for good. Lovely. So, her freezing at that point was her own magic's doing, just to torture her sister. :devil:

You see, if Zelena had any sense of honor, she would at least try to bring the crazy down a bit after her sis saved her life, but no, she goes and does her worst :bang:

[Elba the Intoner]

Wow Lady Octarina and Tijgy I am in awe of your knowledge of the details and intricacies of the show! I didn't remember the timeline at all, or that it had been six weeks between first half and second half. And also, that Robin had taken Zelena's necklace when he was in Oz.. Why do you think did he take that pendant and how will that come into play? And how did Zelena get it back? When Gold told Robin after his stay at the hospital to seize his happiness, I was wondering if Zelena was glamouring him then, but it doesn't seem like anything she would say so I guess that was really Gold saying it. Speaking of timelines, I was wondering how the story with Rumple sending Robin to steal the potion from Oz in the first place fit in with how Robin Hood was introduced initially, when Belle was working for Rumple and Robin had tried to steal something from Rumple. I thought this new scenario must have happened just after the initial scenes with Robin so they both knew each other and reluctantly acknowledged each other, but then I remembered that Rumple was going to kill Robin and what stopped him was seeing Robin with Marian who was pregnant and Belle pointing out that she was pregnant. So, IDK. Maybe this scene with Rumple asking Robin to go to Oz to steal the potion happened after that? I agree with you that what Zelena has done to Gold and to Robin is really dark and disturbing. She's one psychotic biotch!

As for the episode before this one, I really liked it. I hadn't seen spoilers that Lily was going to be Malificent's daughter so that did surprise me, though it does make sense.

[Samalander]

Never would have pegged Rumple for a big Who Wants to be a Millionaire fan...

[Tijgy]

(Are the spoilers tag actually still necessary?)

@ Lady Octarina

"I don't root for Zelena, just like I don't root for Cora or, honestly, Rumplestiltskin"

I am sorry. I think I misinterpret what you wrote then. :blushing: And honestly, I do "root" for Rumple. But in a way that I want he redeems himself without losing everything what makes him rumple.

I never was totally against the way how he makes his deals. F.e. you can have a lot of moral objections about the deal between him and Ella. But still Rumple warned her several times the risks of using magic. It was Ella who wanted to have the magic and begged him to help her.

Or maybe I love his manipulations and his schemes.

I do not however root for him when he has one or more evil actions on his agenda. At that moment I think Rumple :bang: why are you doing this again. But still I don't write him off mine I like this character list I honestly blame the reason why Rumple is my favorite on Robert Carlyle.

"I'm not entirely sure how much he understands of what's going on, tbh. The kid is what? Four, five?"

You are right he is more confused than anything. Especially if he saw Zelena in the murder when Robin and fMarian were kissing each other. The kid probably thinks: Mommy, Regina, Mommy, Weird person in the mirror?????????

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZU5H7eFgx8 0:20-35

"It's probably just a plot hole, though" Probably :lmao:

"The narrative tends to forgive Rumple a bit too easily at times. The truth is, the character loses its purpose once his happy ending is gone (and he might love Belle, but his happy ending was his son, the only one he was willing to change for). Unless they bring Bae back, I can't see how they will redeem him."

Yes. Bae was indeed his happy ending. Actually the best ending for Rumple in my eyes was when he died in season 3. He did redeem himself at least in the eyes of the people who he cares about (Belle and Neal; I believe he doesn't care at all about the others).

I don't know if you are a fan of HP?

But in book five (spoilers about book five ;-)

In book 5 my favorite character Sirius died. I believed like some other members Sirius was never the most mentally stable of people. I even think he had (by nature) one of the most dark personalities of the people who was on the good side.

During his school years he formed his own family out of his friends because all his family problems. And James was the main center of this family. He became the godfather of James' child Harry. And a year after James and his wife died and Sirius discovered Wormtail was a traitor. He lost his whole family except for Remus and Harry. And then he spent 13 years in the most highly guarded wings of Azkaban. However he was an Animus that twisted his sanity even more.

In book 3 I found him quite mentally instable.

Book 4 was the book where Sirius acted the most sane and even in his most fatherly way towards Harry.

When he however needs to keep hidden in his childhood home in book five Sirius keeps deteriorating further and further both physicially and mentally. He even starts to replacing James by Harry (unintentionally)

I believe Sirius would never be entirely happy again without James and was very tormented. And because that reason I believed it was actually kinder for Sirius to die fighting in a cause he most believed in: protecting his Harry.

(The Film Sirius is actually a lot more sympathetic than the Sirius in the books. A memorable quote of him in the film and a message to Snowing: “Besides, the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters. We've all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on. That's who we really are.” from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxDLoeDTXl0 (which is the saddest scene of the entire movie, at least at the end)

Sometimes I believe it is kinder for some people in the narrative for them to die than to be kept tormented. Would it maybe not kinder for Rumple to die than tormenting himself the entire time by saying himself how he failed Bae, ... Some people say Rumple is a purely evil person. Rumple has however a lot times where he criticized himself, blames himself.

So I think maybe now the only way he will get a HE is when he sacrificed himself of Belle. (This is actually rather dark of me)

they even mentioned Nealfire again since season three?

He was actually mentioned by Rumple and Emma in the Put-Emma-in-the-hat-scene, by Rumple in the graveyard, and I believe Rumple referred indirectly to Bae in the conservation between Rumple and Mal, when he warned her that this would only feed the pain, .... This was mine interpretation of the scene.

"if Zelena had any sense of honor, she would at least try to bring the crazy down a bit after her sis saved her life, but no, she goes and does her worst"

I don't remember a lot of the storyline of 3B. Was the problem not with Zelena she was either rejected by everyone or Regina was chosen before her. Her mother left her in the woods(?), her adoptive father didn't want her. And when Rumple didn't stop to teach Regina, she started to become crazy (out of envy). I think then something really cracked inside of her.

@Elba de Intoner

"Wow Lady Octarina and Tijgy I am in awe of your knowledge of the details and intricacies of the show! I didn't remember the timeline at all, or that it had been six weeks between first half and second half"

Thanks, but I think you give me to much credit. The timeline was thanks to rewatching scenes on youtube. And I don't remember a lot of details of some story lines. I am however very invested when it is about Rumple :rolleyes:

"And also, that Robin had taken Zelena's necklace when he was in Oz.. Why do you think did he take that pendant and how will that come into play? "

"Speaking of timelines, I was wondering how the story with Rumple sending Robin to steal the potion from Oz in the first place fit in with how Robin Hood was introduced initially, when Belle was working for Rumple and Robin had tried to steal something from Rumple. I thought this new scenario must have happened just after the initial scenes with Robin so they both knew each other and reluctantly acknowledged each other, but then I remembered that Rumple was going to kill Robin and what stopped him was seeing Robin with Marian who was pregnant and Belle pointing out that she was pregnant. So, IDK. Maybe this scene with Rumple asking Robin to go to Oz to steal the potion happened after that?"

The necklace is actually a sort of glamour. RH needed the necklace because he needed to hide from Rumple. Because he gave the potion to Will and not to Rumple, he broke his deal with Rumple.

The writers needed an explanation why (in season 2) Robin was played by another actor who steal something from Rumple and was tortured by Rumple. So they came up with the solution: he was under a glamour spell.

(RH is so smart. First, break a deal with him and second, steal from him. Smart move RH :bang: )

"When Gold told Robin after his stay at the hospital to seize his happiness, I was wondering if Zelena was glamouring him then, but it doesn't seem like anything she would say so I guess that was really Gold saying it."

I don't doubt at all it was indeed Gold at the hospital. The things he said about Bae were I think Zelena never would be able to imagine Rumple would say. I believe what Gold says here is actually the truth of what he thinks is his truth. But the reason why he would say it to RH is very ambiguous. Either he want RH goes back to fMarian or returns to SB and Regina.

[Lady Octarina]

(Are the spoilers tag actually still necessary?)

@ Lady Octarina

"I don't root for Zelena, just like I don't root for Cora or, honestly, Rumplestiltskin"

I am sorry. I think I misinterpret what you wrote then. :blushing: And honestly, I do "root" for Rumple. But in a way that I want he redeems himself without losing everything what makes him rumple.

I never was totally against the way how he makes his deals. F.e. you can have a lot of moral objections about the deal between him and Ella. But still Rumple warned her several times the risks of using magic. It was Ella who wanted to have the magic and begged him to help her.

Or maybe I love his manipulations and his schemes.

I do not however root for him when he has one or more evil actions on his agenda. At that moment I think Rumple :bang: why are you doing this again. But still I don't write him off mine I like this character list I honestly blame the reason why Rumple is my favorite on Robert Carlyle.

My feelings for Rumple, Cora and Zelena are actually quite similar - all of them boil down to: WHY CAN'T YOU REGRET ALL THE THINGS YOU DID, BE REDEEMED, AND HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH MY GIRL REGINA?! :bang: (sorry for "yelling", but that's pretty much my reaction to them all the time)

Of course, I'm much more invested inn Rumple's happiness than Cora's and Zelena's, but that's mostly because he has a bigger time on-screen, and Carlyle makes him a lot more sympathetic than he probably should. Otherwise, they are very similar.

I don't remember a lot of the storyline of 3B. Was the problem not with Zelena she was either rejected by everyone or Regina was chosen before her. Her mother left her in the woods(?), her adoptive father didn't want her. And when Rumple didn't stop to teach Regina, she started to become crazy (out of envy). I think then something really cracked inside of her.

Zelena's problem was that of perspective, of assuming the neighbor's grass is greener and never trying to actually think about it. I honestly can't understand what the writers did to her, because she seemed very stable, then, suddenly, she was turning green with envy and trying to kill her sister before even attempting to talk to her or anything. I mean, sure, it must be hell to discover that your sister, who your mother kept, grew up to become a queen, but Zelena actually had the means to watching what Regina's life was actually like (and, the way she behaves, I don't doubt for a second that she spent all her free time stalking Regina), all the neglect, abuse and manipulation she suffered, but she refuses to acknowledge that. And the irony is, from what we've seen of her adoptive family, her mother loved her and was probably a lot better to her than Cora could ever be, and her adoptive father just seemed to fear her, but was probably not that bad a parent, mostly for his wife's sake. The woman died when she was, what 20? So the only way her life was worse than Regina's was that they didn't have much money, and yet she ends up becoming worse than the Evil Queen.

I don't doubt at all it was indeed Gold at the hospital. The things he said about Bae were I think Zelena never would be able to imagine Rumple would say. I believe what Gold says here is actually the truth of what he thinks is his truth. But the reason why he would say it to RH is very ambiguous. Either he want RH goes back to fMarian or returns to SB and Regina.

That scene, I think it was one of the few times we've seen Rumple be open and completely sincere. I think his intention with that speech was to push Robin to find a way back to Storybrooke, both because of his affection for Regina and wish or her to be happy (as long as that doesn't get in the way of his own happiness, as he says) and because it was one of the few things he could do to get back at Zelena without breaking their deal (okay, we don't know what exactly their deal was, but I'm pretty sure the things he told Robin are okay).

[Crazydog7]

(next week)

This is just going from the preview we got you understand

Can we please stop putting Henry in mortal danger to advance the plot? You know when the writers remember he's there at all. I mean Jesus he's not a kid anymore. Between the posion apple and the day trip to Neverland you'd think he would be better at escaping this stuff.

[Tijgy]

My feelings for Rumple, Cora and Zelena are actually quite similar - all of them boil down to: WHY CAN'T YOU REGRET ALL THE THINGS YOU DID, BE REDEEMED, AND HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH MY GIRL REGINA?! :bang: (sorry for "yelling", but that's pretty much my reaction to them all the time)

Of course, I'm much more invested inn Rumple's happiness than Cora's and Zelena's, but that's mostly because he has a bigger time on-screen, and Carlyle makes him a lot more sympathetic than he probably should. Otherwise, they are very similar.

Zelena's problem was that of perspective, of assuming the neighbor's grass is greener and never trying to actually think about it. I honestly can't understand what the writers did to her, because she seemed very stable, then, suddenly, she was turning green with envy and trying to kill her sister before even attempting to talk to her or anything. I mean, sure, it must be hell to discover that your sister, who your mother kept, grew up to become a queen, but Zelena actually had the means to watching what Regina's life was actually like (and, the way she behaves, I don't doubt for a second that she spent all her free time stalking Regina), all the neglect, abuse and manipulation she suffered, but she refuses to acknowledge that. And the irony is, from what we've seen of her adoptive family, her mother loved her and was probably a lot better to her than Cora could ever be, and her adoptive father just seemed to fear her, but was probably not that bad a parent, mostly for his wife's sake. The woman died when she was, what 20? So the only way her life was worse than Regina's was that they didn't have much money, and yet she ends up becoming worse than the Evil Queen.

The bold is the main reason why I never even could sympathize with her. I don't understand why you could become worse than the Evil Queen soly because you were jealous of your sister? I have also a little bit this problem with Peter Pan.

I can understand the yelling ;-) Sometimes I also yell silently at the screen when one of my favorites are hurt.