(Spoilers) Once Upon a Time (the Third)

[The Mother of The Others]

See, this is the difference between heroes and us. Heroes have a perfectly legit excuse to leave their wives. Blameless. She's actually an evil witch who replaced the real Mariane. So Robin Hood is free and clear to get out of his inconvenient attachment to his first love in order to be with his new squeeze the queen. No tough choice there. One is an evil witch, the other is a fluctuating witch who's good most of the time these days. Moral dilemma nicely side-steppped, Locksley! That's a nice boon when the fates step in to make an otherwise difficult decision quite easy for the hero. He gets to skate out of that mess with his goody goody reputation intact. Fantasy indeed.

Hey maybe Dark Emma will strap the Author down and make him pay for that Peter Pan season.

[Elba the Intoner]

@Elba de Intoner

"Wow Lady Octarina and Tijgy I am in awe of your knowledge of the details and intricacies of the show! I didn't remember the timeline at all, or that it had been six weeks between first half and second half"

Thanks, but I think you give me to much credit. The timeline was thanks to rewatching scenes on youtube. And I don't remember a lot of details of some story lines. I am however very invested when it is about Rumple :rolleyes:

"And also, that Robin had taken Zelena's necklace when he was in Oz.. Why do you think did he take that pendant and how will that come into play? "

"Speaking of timelines, I was wondering how the story with Rumple sending Robin to steal the potion from Oz in the first place fit in with how Robin Hood was introduced initially, when Belle was working for Rumple and Robin had tried to steal something from Rumple. I thought this new scenario must have happened just after the initial scenes with Robin so they both knew each other and reluctantly acknowledged each other, but then I remembered that Rumple was going to kill Robin and what stopped him was seeing Robin with Marian who was pregnant and Belle pointing out that she was pregnant. So, IDK. Maybe this scene with Rumple asking Robin to go to Oz to steal the potion happened after that?"

The necklace is actually a sort of glamour. RH needed the necklace because he needed to hide from Rumple. Because he gave the potion to Will and not to Rumple, he broke his deal with Rumple.

The writers needed an explanation why (in season 2) Robin was played by another actor who steal something from Rumple and was tortured by Rumple. So they came up with the solution: he was under a glamour spell.

(RH is so smart. First, break a deal with him and second, steal from him. Smart move RH :bang: )

"When Gold told Robin after his stay at the hospital to seize his happiness, I was wondering if Zelena was glamouring him then, but it doesn't seem like anything she would say so I guess that was really Gold saying it."

I don't doubt at all it was indeed Gold at the hospital. The things he said about Bae were I think Zelena never would be able to imagine Rumple would say. I believe what Gold says here is actually the truth of what he thinks is his truth. But the reason why he would say it to RH is very ambiguous. Either he want RH goes back to fMarian or returns to SB and Regina.

Thanks so much for explaining this to me about the glamour necklace. I just missed that completely and now I feel dumb. If we were we supposed to understand that from this episode then I failed (though in my defense my 8 year old was watching with me and kept asking questions throughout so I was a bit distracted.) And as for what Rumple said to Robin, yeah I thought it was Rumple and I believe he was telling Robin to go back to Regina because I was surprised when Robin picked Marian at the end.

[Warg Arry]

@ LO, that sucks that you were spoiled. When Zelena was dusted. It was obvious that she wasn't actually gone. And yet I didn't expect the reveal in this episode. Though it was less - OH Wow! and more. Yeah, OK that works for me, I guess.

Though it makes Robin and Regina's tricky relationship so much easier. Which, I don't know I guess I'm ok with. It's quite neat.

Like TMoTO said. Fantasy indeed.

As for Zelena. I'm not that happy to see her. She is so Selfish, twisted, unreasonable and - well I guess wicked. Though calling her wicked sounds (at least to me) more cutsy than she deserves. I just don't find her all that interesting anymore.

Also I've been asking myself if this story line is sturdy enough to handle Rumple, Maleficent, Cruella, Zelena, Emma going dark, Regina being blackmailed into doing bad stuff. And bloody Charming and Snow doing unforgivable, selfish dark stuff. Ursula got bumped in a self achieved happy ending. I wonder if Cruella is next as she has the least amount of unfinished business with Storybrooke. Guess we'll find out. But that is a huge amount of "bad guy" characters and stories for one arc to carry.

So I liked this episode. I didn't feel even one tiny bit of sympathy for Rumple. I think they have written the character doing enough gnarly ugly crap. That it crossed a line for me. And it might take a bit for me to care what happens to him. Honestly the only investment I have is that Robert Carlyle is great.

Last episode. Super creepy how he went in and moved Belle. I could see how others would read that as done with love and good intentions. But it freaked me out a bit. I just imagined waking up and not being where I should be and wondering what happened to me. I'd think it would be a bit scary.

So everyone in Storybrooke has now been put under a sleeping curse. Does that mean every one could experience the same side effects including not being able to repeat a town wide sleeping curse again?

I don't think I can pretend to root for Charming and Snow anymore. That last episode was just... They are not good people. They might have promised each other to try to be the best versions of themselves from then on out. But frankly they opt for selfish acts more times than not.

Sometimes it's healthy to be selfish. But they take it to level that tends to hurt and alter the lives of the people they claim to protect and be friends with. All while sitting on their high horse, in judgement of others.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just finding them really unlikable atm. Especially after last episode.

I'm having trouble with the quoting and posting. Generally getting onto the board. Sorry If I missed any peoples posts.

Attempt 4 at posting.

[Tijgy]

@ LO, that sucks that you were spoiled. When Zelena was dusted. It was obvious that she wasn't actually gone. And yet I didn't expect the reveal in this episode. Though it was less - OH Wow! and more. Yeah, OK that works for me, I guess.

Though it makes Robin and Regina's tricky relationship so much easier. Which, I don't know I guess I'm ok with. It's quite neat.

Like TMoTO said. Fantasy indeed.

It really makes the relationship for them much easier. It doesn't really change the fact Robin was having an "affair" with Regina while fMarian was asleep. They did thought at that moment it was still the rMarian. So their earlier intentions have not changed in my eyes.

The major problem I have with the earlier situation is how Robin took a long time before he chose with which woman he wanted to be. Just choose man, but stay with that choice. I felt the situation was not fair for Marian but also for Regina and himself.

(...)

Last episode. Super creepy how he went in and moved Belle. I could see how others would read that as done with love and good intentions. But it freaked me out a bit. I just imagined waking up and not being where I should be and wondering what happened to me. I'd think it would be a bit scary.

I found on the net they are actually trying to replay the scenes of Skin Deep or again replaying a version of Beauty and the Beast. The curtains came back in the scene as the rose and now again Rumple carrying Belle. The scene in which Rumple is sitting next to her and telling her (a little bit) of what is going does happen in the original story.

"Every night, the Beast asks Belle to marry him, only to be refused each time. After each refusal, Belle dreams of a handsome prince who pleads with her to answer why she keeps refusing him, to which she replies that she cannot marry the Beast because she loves him only as a friend. Belle does not make the connection between the handsome prince and the Beast and becomes convinced that the Beast is holding the prince captive somewhere in the castle. She searches and discovers multiple enchanted rooms, but never the prince from her dream"

You can even say the scene with Killian is actually a reference to the story of BaB. I think however that for many viewers the writers did destroy any positive feelings they have towards to Rumple. And while they did it amazingly with the version of Beauty and the Beast in Skin Deep they can't do it again in season 4.

So everyone in Storybrooke has now been put under a sleeping curse. Does that mean every one could experience the same side effects including not being able to repeat a town wide sleeping curse again?

It was said on twitter it was a sleeping spell and not a curse (Yeah, those writers, what are they sometimes doing?) So does this mean people of this town would still be affected by the curse? No idea. The people who had been under the curse were not affected by the spell? So I think it possible the town people would not be affected by a new sleeping curse/spell. Mal should really update her curse or spell so she can use it again. ;)

I don't think I can pretend to root for Charming and Snow anymore. That last episode was just... They are not good people. They might have promised each other to try to be the best versions of themselves from then on out. But frankly they opt for selfish acts more times than not.

Sometimes it's healthy to be selfish. But they take it to level that tends to hurt and alter the lives of the people they claim to protect and be friends with. All while sitting on their high horse, in judgement of others.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just finding them really unlikable atm. Especially after last episode.

Actually, I never really rooted for them. I found them too perfect. So while I think it is totally disgusting what they did, I actually can relate a little more of them. But it was indeed strange and disgusting to delude themselfs to think it was okay to do that because it was only a dragon. What is that for a discrimination to think the baby would (only) be a dragon? And still if it was a dragon, the life of animals are still important. (I must admit however I a not a vegeterian so my logic make here not really much sense, but still?)

(...)

Thanks so much for explaining this to me about the glamour necklace. I just missed that completely and now I feel dumb. If we were we supposed to understand that from this episode then I failed (though in my defense my 8 year old was watching with me and kept asking questions throughout so I was a bit distracted.) (...)

Don't feel yourself dumb. It is rather complicated and I think it would make also a lot less sense if I didn't remember the fact RH was played by another actor ;-)

They have put two sneak peeks on the internet: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Sympathy_for_the_De_Vil I like especially the first one. :D

[Tijgy]

O my good old Rumple, what did you now? You are even losing my almost unconditional support.

On the episode of last night:

Wow, I did not expect Cruella always had been a psychopath. I really believed by the author her mum was the bad guy and I feel very sad for the mother. But she should however realized by locking Cruella and never warn the authorities Cruella would never get the help she needed

(however on the other end the place in which they were at time probably had not the real tools to deal with psychopath). Or is she a sociopath? I dont know the real right term. Still Cruella was mentally ill. Amazing twist

The Rumbelle scene was very sad. It was the first time in a long while Rumple finally told someone what is in fact going. And in the end it was either a conspiracy between Belle and Regina or it was Regina using Belle. Beautiful done by RC and ED. You could literally see the tears in his eyes. And look Belle, that little light in his heart is you.

I believe one of the themes in the episodes was (again) how desperate people can respond in a horrible way. Maybe you can think Rumple deserved it but what Regina actually did was also horrible, Emma when she killed Cruella and Rumple manipulating everyone to turn Emma dark. Was it actually planned before he would do it that way? Or did he try to benefit from the situation as it suddenly presented itself. How the hell would he know Cruella would kidnap Henry to blackmail Regina and Emma? He says on screen he manipulated Cruella to do that but we never see him talk about it. Or did he maybe forsee it?

I actually think he was not really planning this. Why would he still need Regina? Regina didn't do anything to blacken her heart. She only turn a few steps back from her own redemption arc.

I think it also rises the question how much is Rumple able to act good. Yeah his heart blackened by all his evil actions during all those years. So it is possible to say he is still totally guilty for his actions while he might not be able any longer all his action because he created in the end this situation by being an evil bastard all this time. But how many of those actions were a consequence of his curse. All those questions... (again)

But in one way I think it is even then possible to blame him. He did actually however killed Zoso to get the powers. He had still some good intentions. In the same way Emma is also guilty of killing Cruella and turning herself dark. She was the one to choose to kill her. Rumple did even not try to convince her to do that. He only created the situation.

(Wow, I am still a little Rumple apologist)

[The Amethyst Empress]

For a second I though that Cruella hated the author because he messed up her hair :lol:

[Samalander]

Some Yays and Nays:

Nay- Horrible makeup for Emma to show her "turning dark".

Nay- What world is Cruella from? Weird...

Yay- Dev il Playing Angry Birds!

Yay- Evil Queen standing up to Rumple's machinations!

Nay- They have nothing to do with Henry but make him hostage of the week. Like, every other week.

Nay- Cruella's stupid, silly plan. You are working with Rumple. You have the author. Just make him unwrite what he wrote about you!

Yay- Cruella is Not Not Not from the Forest Kingdom. And we now know why she hates Dalmatians...

Nay- Never ever let the dangerous magical ink spill- for it will change the color of your hair!

[Corvinus85]

I liked the twist with Cruella. And it's been a while since we got another villain who was completely irredeemable. I had a feeling that another QoD will exit in this episode.

[Tijgy]

Some Yays and Nays:

Nay- Horrible makeup for Emma to show her "turning dark".

Nay- What world is Cruella from? Weird...

Yay- Dev il Playing Angry Birds!

Yay- Evil Queen standing up to Rumple's machinations!

Nay- They have nothing to do with Henry but make him hostage of the week. Like, every other week.

Nay- Cruella's stupid, silly plan. You are working with Rumple. You have the author. Just make him unwrite what he wrote about you!

Yay- Cruella is Not Not Not from the Forest Kingdom. And we now know why she hates Dalmatians...

Nay- Never ever let the dangerous magical ink spill- for it will change the color of your hair!

That was really the best of the entire episode

[Corvinus85]

When Rumple materialized that crystal ball in front of the author, for a moment I thought he was materializing a cell phone. :P You have your tricks, I have GPS!!!

[Lady Octarina]

This episode... OMG, it's so good to finally have a villain that we're not told to sympathize with! Though, to be fair, that only makes her even more fascinating than most of the others. :bowdown: And I do love Victoria Smurfit's ability to look absolutely insane, with or without the wig. :devil: But the explanation of how she ended up with that hair was one of the most ridiculous things this show has ever done.

Was it just me, or was anyone else expecting this episode to show how the Author ruined Cruella's life in the past and that's why she became a psycho? What we got was so much better! :bowdown: And her reaction to her theme song was the best! :bowdown: :bowdown:

I'm kind of disappointed that the Queens of Darkness are going away this soon. I mean, Frozen proved beyond any doubts that the core cast should always be the focus, not the shiny special guests, but the QoD were so fabulous, and had all that potential, yet they barely got any screentime at all, all things considered. *sigh* I hope Maleficent somehow sticks around, and that maybe Cruella and Ursula might return someday in flashbacks about the Evil Queen or something of the kind.

As to how Cruella was killed off... Like most people, I expected Regina to kill her, which would in turn put her in some good vs bad dilemma, tempt her back to the dark side or whatever (since she hasn't killed anyone since Graham - unless we count some of Zelena's flying monkeys, which the characters love pretending were never actually people), or, well, anything that would focus on Regina. Instead we get another Emma-centered story and OUAT's poor attempts at philosophizing over nature vs nurture, free will, and the likes, with this Savior nonsense. :bang: If only JMo managed to be convincing as Dark Emma, and not looking like a drug addict trying to hard, it might be easier to stand, but after 4A, the overexposure of Emma, and the fact that this character isn't Emma Swan at all, that's getting kind of hard to accept. But then, I watch this how for Lana Parrilla, so as long as she's around, I'll keep watching it.

I never thought I'd say this, but I wish Snow had some more screentime this season. It feels like she's barely been there at all, other than to try and curse a baby-dragon, that is.

And then there's Rumple. Okay, I guess the heart turning to charcoal or whatever that is thing kind of explains how randomly evil his actions have been lately - but they can't be used to excuse it. Maybe that's also happening because of the whole bringing him back from the dead thing, maybe that takes its toll on an already battered heart? Anyway, it's only getting harder to imagine how Rumple can be kept around or redeemed. Because right now the only way that happens is if the Author rewrites his story, but why would he do that? What has Rumple done other than try and corrupt every desperate woman within reach, and be a manipulative bastard to anyone who crosses his way? He doesn't deserve redemption, or even forgiveness, and I'm so happy that the two women he's wronged the most, Regina and Belle, are finally acknowledging it and teaming up against him.

Also I've been asking myself if this story line is sturdy enough to handle Rumple, Maleficent, Cruella, Zelena, Emma going dark, Regina being blackmailed into doing bad stuff. And bloody Charming and Snow doing unforgivable, selfish dark stuff. Ursula got bumped in a self achieved happy ending. I wonder if Cruella is next as she has the least amount of unfinished business with Storybrooke. Guess we'll find out. But that is a huge amount of "bad guy" characters and stories for one arc to carry.

That's why I think this whole QoD arc should have lasted the whole season 4, not just half of it. It would have certainly been better than all that Frozen.

I don't think I can pretend to root for Charming and Snow anymore. That last episode was just... They are not good people. They might have promised each other to try to be the best versions of themselves from then on out. But frankly they opt for selfish acts more times than not.

Sometimes it's healthy to be selfish. But they take it to level that tends to hurt and alter the lives of the people they claim to protect and be friends with. All while sitting on their high horse, in judgement of others.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just finding them really unlikable atm. Especially after last episode.

The problem for me is not that they're bad, or that they've done something so despicable - I like my characters flawed-, but that they were such hypocrites, their inability to act like adults and acknowledge how messed up they are instead of convincing themselves and others they're so much better than everyone else. That's the unforgivable part to me.

I believe one of the themes in the episodes was (again) how desperate people can respond in a horrible way. Maybe you can think Rumple deserved it but what Regina actually did was also horrible, Emma when she killed Cruella and Rumple manipulating everyone to turn Emma dark. Was it actually planned before he would do it that way? Or did he try to benefit from the situation as it suddenly presented itself. How the hell would he know Cruella would kidnap Henry to blackmail Regina and Emma? He says on screen he manipulated Cruella to do that but we never see him talk about it. Or did he maybe forsee it?

I actually think he was not really planning this. Why would he still need Regina? Regina didn't do anything to blacken her heart. She only turn a few steps back from her own redemption arc.

Rumple's plan was bringing Maleficent back from the dead so the Charmings' little secret would come out, and when Emma was already on edge from that, he would blackmail Regina into bringing her over to the dark side. The problem with that plan is that he underestimated Regina, as he always has, and all the growth she's been through since he turned her into his monster. He never realized that, this time, she might actually fight back, that there was a limit to how much abuse she could take from him before her anger out-weighted whatever affection she might still have for him. She wasn't just going to lose another love, he was right about that, but he never realized just how close she was to the Charmings that she wouldn't betray them either. Even more? He underestimated how hurt Belle was from everything he's done that she would agree to work with Regina against him (and I strongly believe she agreed with Regina's plan before the latter took out her heart to manipulate Rumple - and how lovely was that scene?!)

Lucky for him, wild card Cruella De Vil was around, even more unhinged than before now that she lost her allies, Mal and Ursula, and that the Author was around. Cruella is not subtle, and neither is the Author, so of course Rumple quickly realized there was more going on than either admitted. From that, all he had to do was watch as she did all the heavy lifting for him (oh, and use those enchanted shells right at the right time to make sure Emma would be the one to find Cruella, on her own, of course).

[Elba the Intoner]

OK, I just watched it and I am confused. I don't know what's going on and if it's just me, but I consider myself to be a fairly smart person, yet I am just missing things on this show. For instance, the showdown between Mal and Cruella at the beginning left me puzzled. So Cruella wanted Mal's baby dead/ kidnapped/didn't care about protecting it? It didn't seem that way when she and Ursula tried to protect the egg from Snow and Charming a couple of episodes ago. Also, at the end when the Author reveals that Cruella can't kill anyone to Snow and Charming, was he saying that that was why he had written the story so that Snow and Charming had to use Mal's baby to have the darkness transferred to her and then sent her away to another realm without magic? Because even though he can't see how the story will end he knew that at some point Emma would be tempted to the dark side?

This episode... OMG, it's so good to finally have a villain that we're not told to sympathize with! Though, to be fair, that only makes her even more fascinating than most of the others. :bowdown: And I do love Victoria Smurfit's ability to look absolutely insane, with or without the wig. :devil: But the explanation of how she ended up with that hair was one of the most ridiculous things this show has ever done.

Was it just me, or was anyone else expecting this episode to show how the Author ruined Cruella's life in the past and that's why she became a psycho? What we got was so much better! :bowdown: And her reaction to her theme song was the best! :bowdown: :bowdown:

[snip]

Rumple's plan was bringing Maleficent back from the dead so the Charmings' little secret would come out, and when Emma was already on edge from that, he would blackmail Regina into bringing her over to the dark side. The problem with that plan is that he underestimated Regina, as he always has, and all the growth she's been through since he turned her into his monster. He never realized that, this time, she might actually fight back, that there was a limit to how much abuse she could take from him before her anger out-weighted whatever affection she might still have for him. She wasn't just going to lose another love, he was right about that, but he never realized just how close she was to the Charmings that she wouldn't betray them either. Even more? He underestimated how hurt Belle was from everything he's done that she would agree to work with Regina against him (and I strongly believe she agreed with Regina's plan before the latter took out her heart to manipulate Rumple - and how lovely was that scene?!)

Lucky for him, wild card Cruella De Vil was around, even more unhinged than before now that she lost her allies, Mal and Ursula, and that the Author was around. Cruella is not subtle, and neither is the Author, so of course Rumple quickly realized there was more going on than either admitted. From that, all he had to do was watch as she did all the heavy lifting for him (oh, and use those enchanted shells right at the right time to make sure Emma would be the one to find Cruella, on her own, of course).

First of all, thank you for explaining Rumple's plan. Again I was scratching my head about this and had similar questions as others have asked about how Rumple could have planned all this. Also, is he still working with Zelena or is he just trying to lure Regina to deal with Zelena or is his trying to use Regina only part of his plan in Storybrook to turn Emma dark? Because I was convinced when Regina was about to leave for NY that maybe Rumple wanted her to go hoping that she'd take down Zelena for him. I'm still waiting to see how turning Emma dark will allow him to have his happy ending. I am guessing it's just the fact that she will take over his role as the dark one and then he can be the good guy and therefore get his happy ending. Another thing is that I must have missed the explanation for how the Storybrooke characters can leave Storybrook and return with no side effects like forgetting their past or losing their magic for good. How is this possible now?

Yes, I agree that I did not see Cruella being a downright evil murderer coming and it was refreshing for this show. And then the dissonance of her trying to play Angry Birds was hilarious. I did also think at first that the Author had scorned Cruella somehow and that's why she was the way she was. I'm actually glad that wasn't the case because I kinda hate that whole "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" trope. Agreed that scene between Regina and Belle was lovely.

[Arkash]

Okay, so do anyone believe (like me) that Regina and Belle played Rumple and that Regina never took Belle's heart (it was all a play ! Regina's got a vault full of hearts after all !)

[Lady Octarina]

OK, I just watched it and I am confused. I don't know what's going on and if it's just me, but I consider myself to be a fairly smart person, yet I am just missing things on this show. For instance, the showdown between Mal and Cruella at the beginning left me puzzled. So Cruella wanted Mal's baby dead/ kidnapped/didn't care about protecting it? It didn't seem that way when she and Ursula tried to protect the egg from Snow and Charming a couple of episodes ago. Also, at the end when the Author reveals that Cruella can't kill anyone to Snow and Charming, was he saying that that was why he had written the story so that Snow and Charming had to use Mal's baby to have the darkness transferred to her and then sent her away to another realm without magic? Because even though he can't see how the story will end he knew that at some point Emma would be tempted to the dark side?

OUAT is so full of plot-holes that trying to make sense of it can sometimes become a Sisyphus job.

I think Cruella simply didn't give a damn about what happened to Maleficent's child. So when she found herself stranded in an unknown land with no magic and no possessions other than those in her body, she certainly wasn't about to make things harder for herself and take care of an infant (though the thought of mommy Cruella is hilarious!). I also think that part of her decision to abandon the kid in the woods might have been a way to test if the Author's influence went that far and she still couldn't kill. What perplexes me about all this is that Ursula would simply agree with her decision; I mean, nothing we've seen of Ursula so far suggests she was that evil (what was the worst thing she did? Try to drown a few pirates?), but abandoning a baby in the woods? Wow...

But yeah, I have a hard time reconciling how worried they appeared to be when the Charmings kidnapped the baby with their willingness to just get rid of it a few hours later too.

On the Author pushing Snow and David to transfer Emma's darkness elsewhere, he's not like Rumple - he can't see the future. I imagine this time it's exactly as he said - he thought having the heroes do something so dark to an innocent child would make a fun story, so that's what he did. I suppose he could have just used his pen and ink to do that, but seeing them act that way of their own free will was probably a lot more satisfying. So he wouldn't have foreseen the Emma vs Cruella battle either, or the Savior's temptation, he was just trying to have a good time.

First of all, thank you for explaining Rumple's plan. Again I was scratching my head about this and had similar questions as others have asked about how Rumple could have planned all this. Also, is he still working with Zelena or is he just trying to lure Regina to deal with Zelena or is his trying to use Regina only part of his plan in Storybrook to turn Emma dark? Because I was convinced when Regina was about to leave for NY that maybe Rumple wanted her to go hoping that she'd take down Zelena for him. I'm still waiting to see how turning Emma dark will allow him to have his happy ending. I am guessing it's just the fact that she will take over his role as the dark one and then he can be the good guy and therefore get his happy ending. Another thing is that I must have missed the explanation for how the Storybrooke characters can leave Storybrook and return with no side effects like forgetting their past or losing their magic for good. How is this possible now?

Rumple's actions generally have multiple purposes at once, so it's possible he wanted Regina to go to NY and deal with the Zelena problem, but I think it's too soon to tell. We know very little of what's going on with him so far: centuries of dark deeds have taken their toll on his heart, which is now failing. We know Zelena has a potion that should be able to heal him, so it's likely he is actually working with her in order to save himself. After all, self-preservation is one of the few constants about the character. But it's Rumple, so he's certainly working on an alternative that doesn't make him dependent on Zelena.

What we know about his plans for the Author is that he wants to use him to flip the balance so villains get their happy endings and heroes don't - or so he told the Queens of Darkness. To do that, he seems to need the Savior to go to the dark side. Which doesn't make any sense, because all he needs is to have the Author write whatever it is he wants and - voila! Unless the way to get the ink necessary to that writing is via Dark Emma? Stranger things have happened on this show... So, yeah, none of this makes any sense, and as far as we know Rumple's plan might simply be to transfer his darkness and the Dark One's title elsewhere, to Emma or Regina.

As to how the characters can leave Storybrooke without losing their memories, my guess is that, since they got back to town after a second curse, cast by Snow, not Regina, the rules about them leaving are probably different. But they do lose their magic - there's something in one of the previous seasons about there being very little magic outside of Storybrooke, so they have to rely on enchanted objects to use it (like Zelena's pendant, or the potion).

Okay, so do anyone believe (like me) that Regina and Belle played Rumple and that Regina never took Belle's heart (it was all a play ! Regina's got a vault full of hearts after all !)

See, this is one of the most bizarre things about OUAT for me: that the heroes would just let Regina keep all those hearts in her vault instead of trying to return them to their rightful owners. WTF?!

But assuming she does still have those hearts... It's possible she would have used them, but I tend to think she didn't. First, because Rumple is too smart to be tricked that way, and Belle was acting too cold in his presence, I have some serious doubts she would be able too keep her cool like that if her heart was still inside her body, or without Regina telling her what to say to hurt him just the right way.

[Tijgy]

I actually think Regina had indeed Belle's heart and Belle gave it to her.

I however think when Regina took over after they kissed just like Regina actually said and IMO it is actually disgusting she orders Belle to forget what happened (except if Belle asked Regina that but I don't really think so).

(Hides from the Regina fans)

[Lady Octarina]

I'm more inclined to believe Regina made her forget because the whole experience was kind of traumatizing and she didn't deserve to be stuck with those memories, whether or not they agreed on everything that would happen (and, as I've said, I strongly believe they did, otherwise why show Belle asking her how she could help in the previous scene?). But I think Regina was in control the whole time; Belle didn't have her heart at the moment, so there's no way she would fall for Rumple's story like she usually does. Remember, the only character who has been shown to be able to feel deeply while without her heart is Regina.

Anyway, I'd like to share a couple things with you all:

First, this amazing crack video (I love these things!).

And this interesting speculation about what the ink did to Cruella and also a way to understand the Author's interference.

[Arkash]

And this interesting speculation about what the ink did to Cruella and also a way to understand the Author's interference.

That's really interesting actually ! Thanks for the l(ink) ! Hope the writers will go that way !

[Corvinus85]

I'm more inclined to believe Regina made her forget because the whole experience was kind of traumatizing and she didn't deserve to be stuck with those memories, whether or not they agreed on everything that would happen (and, as I've said, I strongly believe they did, otherwise why show Belle asking her how she could help in the previous scene?). But I think Regina was in control the whole time; Belle didn't have her heart at the moment, so there's no way she would fall for Rumple's story like she usually does. Remember, the only character who has been shown to be able to feel deeply while without her heart is Regina.

Anyway, I'd like to share a couple things with you all:

First, this amazing crack video (I love these things!).

And this interesting speculation about what the ink did to Cruella and also a way to understand the Author's interference.

lol, that crack video was funny. I especially liked the songs for Rumple.

[Tijgy]

I'm more inclined to believe Regina made her forget because the whole experience was kind of traumatizing and she didn't deserve to be stuck with those memories, whether or not they agreed on everything that would happen (and, as I've said, I strongly believe they did, otherwise why show Belle asking her how she could help in the previous scene?). But I think Regina was in control the whole time; Belle didn't have her heart at the moment, so there's no way she would fall for Rumple's story like she usually does. Remember, the only character who has been shown to be able to feel deeply while without her heart is Regina.

Anyway, I'd like to share a couple things with you all:

First, this amazing crack video (I love these things!).

And this interesting speculation about what the ink did to Cruella and also a way to understand the Author's interference.

I also love those crack videos. The best thing was the part of GA and the OutlawQueen and Rumbelle's fans

On the heart-Regina-Belle I think we disagree a little bit but I hope it will be explained later what happened. And thanks for your opinion on what Rumple's plan was.

In the promo Emma looks scary. Poor Lily

[Elba the Intoner]

OUAT is so full of plot-holes that trying to make sense of it can sometimes become a Sisyphus job.

I think Cruella simply didn't give a damn about what happened to Maleficent's child. So when she found herself stranded in an unknown land with no magic and no possessions other than those in her body, she certainly wasn't about to make things harder for herself and take care of an infant (though the thought of mommy Cruella is hilarious!). I also think that part of her decision to abandon the kid in the woods might have been a way to test if the Author's influence went that far and she still couldn't kill. What perplexes me about all this is that Ursula would simply agree with her decision; I mean, nothing we've seen of Ursula so far suggests she was that evil (what was the worst thing she did? Try to drown a few pirates?), but abandoning a baby in the woods? Wow...

But yeah, I have a hard time reconciling how worried they appeared to be when the Charmings kidnapped the baby with their willingness to just get rid of it a few hours later too.

On the Author pushing Snow and David to transfer Emma's darkness elsewhere, he's not like Rumple - he can't see the future. I imagine this time it's exactly as he said - he thought having the heroes do something so dark to an innocent child would make a fun story, so that's what he did. I suppose he could have just used his pen and ink to do that, but seeing them act that way of their own free will was probably a lot more satisfying. So he wouldn't have foreseen the Emma vs Cruella battle either, or the Savior's temptation, he was just trying to have a good time.

Rumple's actions generally have multiple purposes at once, so it's possible he wanted Regina to go to NY and deal with the Zelena problem, but I think it's too soon to tell. We know very little of what's going on with him so far: centuries of dark deeds have taken their toll on his heart, which is now failing. We know Zelena has a potion that should be able to heal him, so it's likely he is actually working with her in order to save himself. After all, self-preservation is one of the few constants about the character. But it's Rumple, so he's certainly working on an alternative that doesn't make him dependent on Zelena.

What we know about his plans for the Author is that he wants to use him to flip the balance so villains get their happy endings and heroes don't - or so he told the Queens of Darkness. To do that, he seems to need the Savior to go to the dark side. Which doesn't make any sense, because all he needs is to have the Author write whatever it is he wants and - voila! Unless the way to get the ink necessary to that writing is via Dark Emma? Stranger things have happened on this show... So, yeah, none of this makes any sense, and as far as we know Rumple's plan might simply be to transfer his darkness and the Dark One's title elsewhere, to Emma or Regina.

As to how the characters can leave Storybrooke without losing their memories, my guess is that, since they got back to town after a second curse, cast by Snow, not Regina, the rules about them leaving are probably different. But they do lose their magic - there's something in one of the previous seasons about there being very little magic outside of Storybrooke, so they have to rely on enchanted objects to use it (like Zelena's pendant, or the potion).

See, this is one of the most bizarre things about OUAT for me: that the heroes would just let Regina keep all those hearts in her vault instead of trying to return them to their rightful owners. WTF?!

But assuming she does still have those hearts... It's possible she would have used them, but I tend to think she didn't. First, because Rumple is too smart to be tricked that way, and Belle was acting too cold in his presence, I have some serious doubts she would be able too keep her cool like that if her heart was still inside her body, or without Regina telling her what to say to hurt him just the right way.

Yeah I agree with you that it doesn't seem like Ursula would go along with a decision like that. IDK, I guess my questions are a bit premature yet as there are still more episodes to come which hopefully will explain some of this better, especially why he needs Emma to turn dark rather than simply have the author write what he wants. You're right that Rumple always has multiple plans going at once and that right now he needs that potion that Zelena has but I am sure once he gets it there is no way he is going to let Zelena get away with what she did.

As for the effects of leaving Storybrooke and returning, I get that they don't have their own magic when not in Storybrooke but can bring enchanted things with them that they can use. I just find it strange that there are no longer any negative effects when they return to Storybrooke. I suppose your idea that since the latest curse was cast by Snow she didn't put any qualifications on it makes sense although I don't remember if that was explained.

First, this amazing crack video (I love these things!).

And this interesting speculation about what the ink did to Cruella and also a way to understand the Author's interference.

Those were great links. Thanks! I really like the speculation idea that the ink shows your true nature because otherwise it was just cheesy the way Cruella's hair changed after the ink fell on her. This way it has a purpose.