Rhaenyra Targaryen and Cersei Lannister parallels

[larastone]

So I was thinking about possible TPATQ/ASOIAF parallels and realized that there are definitely some parallels between Cersei and Rhaenyra.

-Both women were beautiful but start losing their looks as they let their vices consume them as they get older. Also motherhood and aging obviously definitely play a role. Rhaenarya gaining weight from her 3 pregnancies, and Cersei having stretch marks because of giving birth.

-Both women had a son named Joffrey.

Both women are vindictive and are known to hold grudges and not forgive or forget slights

"Though Rhaenyra could be charming, she was quick to anger and never forgot a slight. During the Dance of the Dragons, she wore her father’s crown”

Also note how Rhaenyra wore her father's crown, that kind of reminds me of Cersei thinks of herself as Tywin 2.0 and wears her father's crown in her mind and....

She never forgets a slight, real or imagined. She takes caution for cowardice and dissent for defiance. And she is greedy. Greedy for power, for honour, for love.”

-Young Cersei was fairly loved in the Westerlands and the smallfolk cheered for her when she married Robert. Rhaenyra was cheered as the "Realm's Delight" when she was young.

-Both women are very proud and stubborn.

- Cersei is the mother of 2 kings: Tommen and Joffrey. Rhaenarya was the mother of two kings: Aegon III and Viserys II.

-Rhaenarya was enamored by the Kingsguard Ser Criston Cole (who shares some parallels with Jaime) and like how Cersei sees Jaime as her "white knight", Rhaenyra saw Criston as her "white knight" . Criston became Rhaenyra's protector, Jaime was Cersei's protector for most of her life.

-Rhaenyra's children were also rumored to be her lover's children instead of her husband's because her children had Ser Harwin's brown hair instead of Targaryen silver hair.

-Rivalry between Rhaenyra vs. Alicent and Cersei vs. Margaery.

-Joanna died while birthing Cersei's younger brother Tyrion, Rhaenyra's mother Aemma died while birthing Rhaenyra's younger brother.

-Rhaenyra became extremely hated by the smallfolk similar to Cersei. She had several cuts from sitting on the Iron Throne, Cersei's first POV chapter starts with her having a dream of the Iron Throne tearing her apart and devouring her.

-Like Cersei, Rhaenyra became extremely paranoid and alienated her allies.

-The Faith was against Rhaenyra's rule, same like how it is with Cersei's.

-Rhaenyra wore armor, Cersei wishes to have always weild a sword and "I should wear the armor".

-Rhaenyra eventually fled KL and went to Dragonstone where she was betrayed. It is possible that Cersei will also flee KL and go to Casterly Rock which Tyron might try to bring down and Jaime betray her and become her valonqar.

well whew that took a decent amount of time. thoughts? would love it if you guys could add to this.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Neither could handle the pressures of ruling, but the main difference is that Rhaenyra's eventual madness is understandable as she actually had right to be a Queen and was educated to do so but she was betrayed, while Cersei believes she deserves the power because whatever.

[Mladen]

I always felt that Cersei parallels Alicent Hightower far better than Rhaenyra...

[larastone]

I always felt that Cersei parallels Alicent Hightower far better than Rhaenyra...

Really?

I don't feel like they have much in common, Alicent actually kind of reminds me of Olenna more than Cersei

[Mladen]

Really?

I don't feel like they have much in common, Alicent actually kind of reminds me of Olenna more than Cersei

Alicent has nothing in common with Olenna... Alicent, on the other hand, played like Cersei when she was faced that her son might not get the crown, and that her position would be endangered.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I always felt that Cersei parallels Alicent Hightower far better than Rhaenyra...

Agreed. Alicent is much more like Cersei, right down to the coup and putting her son on the throne when he shouldn't have been. Alicent's father was Hand of the King, just like Tywin had been at one time. There was talk that Viserys married Alicent to advance the Hightowers, just like with Robert and Cersei. Viserys, like Robert, was never able to reconcile the different factions of his family. Alicent watched her family die around her as a result of her scheming and politicking.

Rhaenyra is more like Dany. Starts off promising and well-loved and then ultimately descends into paranoia and mistrust. They both had malformed babies. And they're both also, you know, Targaryens who actually want to make a play for the throne. Alicent only ever acted on behalf of her children; she had no claim on her own. Rhaenyra, unlike Cersei and like Dany, actually had a claim in her own right.

[larastone]

Alicent has nothing in common with Olenna... Alicent, on the other hand, played like Cersei when she was faced that her son might not get the crown, and that her position would be endangered.

hmmm now thinking about it, maybe the Olenna parallel doesn't really work but I still believe that there are many more Rhaenrya/Cersei parallels than Alicent/Cersei parallels as you can see in my post above.

of course no parallel is going to be 100% perfect, as rhaenyra was a targ who had true right unlike Cersei's bastards etc but I still feel like there are many similarities between the two women

[naseridrl]

I don't think we know the true Rhaenyra to comment. Everything about her is from biased sources written after the fact. At least with Cersei she has her own POV stuff to go off in later books.

[larastone]

I don't think we know the true Rhaenyra to comment. Everything about her is from biased sources written after the fact. At least with Cersei she has her own POV stuff to go off in later books.

the princess and the queen?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

the princess and the queen?

...

"Everything about her is from biased sources written after the fact."

ETA: In the interest of further clarification, a "biased source written after the fact" is what TPATQ is.

[Good King Daemon]

I don't think we know the true Rhaenyra to comment. Everything about her is from biased sources written after the fact. At least with Cersei she has her own POV stuff to go off in later books.

That's fair, but the same can also be said of Alicent and everyone else not in Ice and Fire and D and E. Judging by the info we do have (though admitedly sketchy) I think Cersei in terms of her position and actions is mirrors Alicent, but in terms of her personality she is far more like Rhaenyra.

[larastone]

...

"Everything about her is from biased sources written after the fact."

uh we definitely get to see Rhaenyra scenes right as they're happening in the book.

@GoodKingDaemon exactly and this post is definitely more about their characterizations than their storylines. Cersei's storyline only has some parallels with Rhaenyra but their personalities and how they both become hated by the smallfolk as they become more and more cruel and vindictive, the Faith opposing their rule, the Iron Throne essentially rejecting them should be noted imo

also if Cersei flees KL to Casterly Rock and gets betrayed they're by her brothers then that is also a definite POTENTIAL parallel to Rhaenyra in the future

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Not really.

Rhaenyra became paranoid because of Alicent. Who is to blame for what Cersei had become except from herself?

I always felt that Cersei parallels Alicent Hightower far better than Rhaenyra...

This.

[Mladen]

hmmm now thinking about it, maybe the Olenna parallel doesn't really work but I still believe that there are many more Rhaenrya/Cersei parallels than Alicent/Cersei parallels as you can see in my post above.

of course no parallel is going to be 100% perfect, as rhaenyra was a targ who had true right unlike Cersei's bastards etc but I still feel like there are many similarities between the two women

The most parallels, IMO, on your list have no thematic value, which is rather important here. Comparing two characters always have to have some point, and I see none in comparing Rhaenyra and Cersei, especially in line the list suggested, and also having in mind the rather different positions they have in their respective wars.

So, I simply see no value in this parallel, but I see "power-hungry mother using her son to achieve her goals" as rather important point in Cersei/Alicent lives.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

uh we definitely get to see Rhaenyra scenes right as they're happening in the book.

We most certainly do not.

The novella is written after the fact by a maester. It references, multiple times, that this has all already happened before, including in the introduction. It's not being written in present time, as it's happening. It's written as a history.

It's right there in the damn title:

"Being a HISTORY of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Blood-letting Known as the Dance of the Dragons ..."

Perfect example:

Three conflicting accounts exist as to the manner of the death of Prince Daeron.

The maester then goes on to describe the three theories. If this was being written in the present time, as it was unfolding, there'd be no need to reference the "three conflicting accounts" because we'd be seeing what actually happened.

You're operating under a severe misunderstanding of what the novella actually is.

[larastone]

The most parallels, IMO, on your list have no thematic value, which is rather important here. Comparing two characters always have to have some point, and I see none in comparing Rhaenyra and Cersei, especially in line the list suggested, and also having in mind the rather different positions they have in their respective wars.

So, I simply see no value in this parallel, but I see "power-hungry mother using her son to achieve her goals" as rather important point in these women's lives.

how do both women becoming increasingly unhinged, paranoid, cruel and vindictive, being rejected by the smallfolk and opposed by the Faith has NO thematic value?? both women losing their looks as they get older, Rhaenyra being killed by her half brother, Cersei probably getting killed by Jaime......

there are some similarities between Cersei and Alicent too, but ultimately I believe that Cersei is more like Rhaenyra than Alicent.

There are going to be differences of course but that's why its just parallels, not "same character". GRRM has said that Dany and Cersei have some parallels also and they're certainly not the same either.

[Lion of the West]

So I was thinking about possible TPATQ/ASOIAF parallels and realized that there are definitely some parallels between Cersei and Rhaenyra.

-Both women were beautiful but start losing their looks as they let their vices consume them as they get older. Also motherhood and aging obviously definitely play a role. Rhaenarya gaining weight from her 3 pregnancies, and Cersei having stretch marks because of giving birth.

-Both women had a son named Joffrey.

Both women are vindictive and are known to hold grudges and not forgive or forget slights

Also note how Rhaenyra wore her father's crown, that kind of reminds me of Cersei thinks of herself as Tywin 2.0 and wears her father's crown in her mind and....

-Young Cersei was fairly loved in the Westerlands and the smallfolk cheered for her when she married Robert. Rhaenyra was cheered as the "Realm's Delight" when she was young.

-Both women are very proud and stubborn.

- Cersei is the mother of 2 kings: Tommen and Joffrey. Rhaenarya was the mother of two kings: Aegon III and Viserys II.

-Rhaenarya was enamored by the Kingsguard Ser Criston Cole (who shares some parallels with Jaime) and like how Cersei sees Jaime as her "white knight", Rhaenyra saw Criston as her "white knight" . Criston became Rhaenyra's protector, Jaime was Cersei's protector for most of her life.

-Rhaenyra's children were also rumored to be her lover's children instead of her husband's because her children had Ser Harwin's brown hair instead of Targaryen silver hair.

-Rivalry between Rhaenyra vs. Alicent and Cersei vs. Margaery.

-Joanna died while birthing Cersei's younger brother Tyrion, Rhaenyra's mother Aemma died while birthing Rhaenyra's younger brother.

-Rhaenyra became extremely hated by the smallfolk similar to Cersei. She had several cuts from sitting on the Iron Throne, Cersei's first POV chapter starts with her having a dream of the Iron Throne tearing her apart and devouring her.

-Like Cersei, Rhaenyra became extremely paranoid and alienated her allies.

-The Faith was against Rhaenyra's rule, same like how it is with Cersei's.

-Rhaenyra wore armor, Cersei wishes to have always weild a sword and "I should wear the armor".

-Rhaenyra eventually fled KL and went to Dragonstone where she was betrayed. It is possible that Cersei will also flee KL and go to Casterly Rock which Tyron might try to bring down and Jaime betray her and become her valonqar.

well whew that took a decent amount of time. thoughts? would love it if you guys could add to this.

Makes a pretty good cause to me. It will be interesting to see if these parallels between Cersei and Rhaenyra will turn out true.

[larastone]

oh and another parallel, Rhaenyra was called King Maegor with teats and known as a "slutty", "whore" queen.

Cersei is also compared to Maegor:

Cersei is as gentle as King Maegor, as selfless as Aegon the Unworthy, as wise as Mad Aerys.

and of course called a "whore" and known as the "slutty" queen

[larastone]

We most certainly do not.

The novella is written after the fact by a maester. It references, multiple times, that this has all already happened before, including in the introduction. It's not being written in present time, as it's happening. It's written as a history.

It's right there in the damn title:

"Being a HISTORY of the Causes, Origins, Battles, and Betrayals of that Most Tragic Blood-letting Known as the Dance of the Dragons ..."

Perfect example:

The maester then goes on to describe the three theories. If this was being written in the present time, as it was unfolding, there'd be no need to reference the "three conflicting accounts" because we'd be seeing what actually happened.

You're operating under a severe misunderstanding of what the novella actually is.

ok how about the way that GRRM writes Rhaenyra from history parallels to Cersei in some ways.

[Mladen]

how do both women becoming increasingly unhinged, paranoid, cruel and vindictive, being rejected by the smallfolk and opposed by the Faith has NO thematic value?? both women losing their looks as they get older, Rhaenyra being killed by her half brother, Cersei probably getting killed by Jaime......

there are some similarities between Cersei and Alicent too, but ultimately I believe that Cersei is more like Rhaenyra than Alicent.

There are going to be differences of course but that's why its just parallels, not "same character". GRRM has said that Dany and Cersei have some parallels also and they're certainly not the same either.

Cersei was paranoid, cruel and vindictive since the age of 12. She has never been loved by smallfolk due to her Lannister blood, unlike Rhaenyra who was extremely loved in her youth. All women lose their looks as they get older...

Cersei is paranoid, crazy creature, no denying that, and Rhaenyra was at the end. But, they simply are different. In many aspects. And using parallel "they lose looks as they get older" simply speaks for itself and just reinforces my point - the comparison have no thematic value and as such is completely off the point.

Answer me this - what do you think the point of the parallels between Cersei and Rhaenyra are? Because, the answer can be found when we discuss Rhaenyra/Dany parallel, or Alicent/Cersei... This, according to your list, simply have none. Or at least, none that I can see. As I said before, to be functional, parallels need to have their purpose. On either meta, thematic or plot level.