[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yes, It must be 231-236.

Old Nan's Brandon died from a summer chill at three. Which summer/Brandon was that?

Still working on that ;)

[Lord Varys]

Rhaenys,

Tytos would have been de iure the head of the family in any case, but he would have made most likely not made not the (or any) decision. We have yet no idea whose idea this whole marriage was.

I could see Tywin hoping to marry Princess Rhaella prior to Jaehaerys' decision to marry Aerys to Rhaella (that would have been in 257/8 I think, as Rhaella was already pregnant and gave birth in 259), not so much out of love or devotion but out of ambition and 'Targaryen fanboyism'. And if we assume that Egg was actually somewhat fond of Tywin - which I think he could have been - he may have been open to that suggestion if Tywin had approached him.

When did Tywin fell in love with Joanna - as a child? And who arranged that betrothal? Tywin himself (through Tytos), Jason, or somebody else? We really don't know yet.

A more mundane explanation could have been the fact that Tywin and Joanna were separated for long periods of time:

First time was a royal page and squire while Joanna was, presumably, in the West, then Tywin fought in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and dealt with the misrule in the West and the Reynes/Tarbecks while Joanna was at court, and they were only 'reunited' in a fashion after Aerys made Tywin Hand. I assume that Tywin was also not exactly eager to stage a great marriage in the West while everyone was opposing/laughing about his father and the whole family...

The fact that Tywin and Joanna married in KL instead of the West is also an interesting fact. One interpretation would be that Tywin did not want to hang out with his father at CR, the other, much more interesting, would be that both Joanna and Tywin wanted to be close to and associated with the Iron Throne...

[Mithras]

It seems that the only feasible Brandon is William’s son from Lyanne Glover who does not seem to have any issues and it seems like William remarried some time after Lyanne.

Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him. He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran’s grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard’s father. Sometimes Old Nan told it one way and sometimes another. In all the stories the little boy died at three of a summer chill, but Old Nan stayed on at Winterfell with her own children.

William’s Brandon is (half) brother to Lord Rickard’s father, so that part is right.

Maekar’s summer was from 223 to 230. William died in 226. William also fathered Edwyle and Jocelyn. It also does not make sense for William to remarry before Brandon died.

So, Lyanne Glover died in childbirth during 220-221; Old Nan came to Winterfell; Brandon died in 223-224; William remarried immediately and Edwyle was born in 225; when William died in 226; Melantha Blackwood was pregnant to Jocelyn Stark.

This scheme seems to dismiss the idea of Old Nan kissing Dunk in Bran’s vision.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

I've been of the notion that Lyanne Glover's Brandon is the Brandon from Old Nan's story as well. I also agree that Lyanne Glover is likely Willam's first wife and he remarried after his first wife died (I do, however, disagree that it would not have made sense for him to remarry while he had an heir. His heir was a baby, so it's not like it was inconceivable that the baby wouldn't live very long. It's also possible that Brandon was already sickly before dying).

An interesting thing to note is that it appears from the family tree that, prior to Ned's marriage to Catelyn, no Lord or heir to Winterfell married a non-northern woman unless they already had an heir of their own. Cregan married Aly Blackwood, but it seems that Arra Norrey was his first wife, and Rickon was already around. Beron married Lorra Royce, but he had an older brother, Rodwell (who was married to a northerner). Then we have Willam marrying Melantha Blackwood, but it seems he had already been married to Lyanne Glover and had a son.

Anyway, I think the reason (from an authorial standpoint) that the Lyanne Glover marriage and Brandon are on the family tree is to tie into the story of Old Nan's origins. Old Nan coming as a wet nurse could easily have been young at the time (akin to the 14 year old wet nurse that Torghen Flint took to the wall), such that it wouldn't be too strange for her to have sons that died in Robert's Rebellion or a grandson who died in the Greyjoy Rebellion (or for Hodor to be her great grandson)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Can the info from the Westerlands reading from ConCarolinas that did not make it into the book be considered canon?

[Ran]

Semi-canon, I'd say. GRRM may change -- in some cases has already changed -- some of those manuscripts that he read in public. They'll be canon when they're published.

[History of Westeros]

Ran,

Any thoughts on the possible timeline issue with Aegon IV and his aggression towards Dorne? (posted a few pages back).

[Ran]

174 is correct. The language will be tweaked so that it doesn't suggest this is in the late reign.

[History of Westeros]

174 is correct. The language will be tweaked so that it doesn't suggest this is in the late reign.

Great, thanks!

So Aegon IV's awfulness grows again. He tried to invade Dorne only 2 years after his own son, the Crown Prince, married a daughter of the Prince of Dorne.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Great, thanks!

So Aegon IV's awfulness grows again. He tried to invade Dorne only 2 years after his own son, the Crown Prince, married a daughter of the Prince of Dorne.

Make that 4 or 5 years after.. Baelor was born in 170 AC..

[History of Westeros]

Make that 4 or 5 years after.. Baelor was born in 170 AC..

Oops, right you are. I was thinking of the date for Daenerys' birth instead of Daeron's marriage.

[J. Stargaryen]

In ADwD, Dany twice thinks that baby Aegon would have been Aegon VI if he had lived. That being the case, can we assume that Yandel was taking a shortcut of sorts when he referred to Viserys as Aerys' new heir post-Trident, pre-sack?

BIRDS FLEW AND couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King’s Landing with Rhaegar’s children as a hostage against Dorne.

- pg. 129

[Lord Varys]

Dany is clearly not aware of the tensions between Aerys and the Dornishmen, nor does she know that Aerys apparently disinherited Elia's children after Rhaegar's death. Viserys might have known, as he was later crowned king by his mother, but that's not clear either. If he knew, I imagine he did not tell Daenerys.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

By the time Rhaella crowned Viserys, Aegon was dead, so no matter what scenario is the true one, when Viserys was crowned, he was definitely heir (he was the only male left).

Ran,

Could you perhaps tell us whether Elaena's twins by Alyn Velaryon were born before her marriage to Ossifer Plumm, or after? I find the text on the topic slightly vague in the book..

[Lord Varys]

Rhaenys,

but Viserys would have known that he was the new Prince of Dragonstone, when he and Rhaella were sent to Dragonstone, wouldn't he? And thus he could have told Dany later on - the fact that she later considers Aegon the true heir suggests that she never heard of that. And that's not a surprise as she clearly does know less about her family than we do (after reading TWoIaF at least).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

O yeah, totally, Viserys most likely would have known.. but in the end, it wouldn't have mattered, as Viserys was heir upon his coronation no matter which way you turn the stone (is that how you say it?). So while I would expect Viserys to tell such things (kind of a proud moment for him, I'd guess, in hindsight), I could also see why it might never have come up..

[Lord Varys]

Viserys clearly would have painted their family as a bunch of nice guys who got along splendidly when talking to Dany. In part, to not scare Dany, in part because he himself didn't know better (being shielded by Aerys from the world, and by Rhaella from Aerys). Thus we should assume that Viserys generally did not talk all that much about the chaotic/scary moments of his childhood (i.e. whatever he remembered from the Rebellion, and especially not the traumatizing moments for himself - they flight from KL, the death of his mother, the flight from Dragonstone, etc.).

I imagine he spoke in general terms about their parents, and related some happy moments he shared with both Aerys, Rhaella, and Rhaegar. Those would have been precious few, I assume, as Viserys was not even allowed to attend Rhaegar's wedding.

[RumHam]

In ADwD, Dany twice thinks that baby Aegon would have been Aegon VI if he had lived. That being the case, can we assume that Yandel was taking a shortcut of sorts when he referred to Viserys as Aerys' new heir post-Trident, pre-sack?

- pg. 129

And some things are really just Linda, George, and I missing something. It happens when there's so much disparate material. Hopefully once we get these notes in, e-books will be updated, future prints will be corrected, and people will see which errors were real mistakes and which are intended mistakes.

And then there were things

If the Viserys as heir thing is untrue I'm sure it falls under the "And then there were things" category.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I'm probably missing something here but Tyanna admitted that she was responsible for Maegor's "monster" babies and that she poisoned his brides. My question is that how did Elinor Costayne and Jeyne Westerling had monster babies when Tyanna was dead. I mean, didn't Maegor marry with his Black Brides after Tyanna's death?

Just checked the wiki while typing this... so there was Tyanna and then there were Black Brides, right? So Tyanna was responsible for monster babies. Ok.

[Ser Lepus]

I'm probably missing something here but Tyanna admitted that she was responsible for Maegor's "monster" babies and that she poisoned his brides. My question is that how did Elinor Costayne and Jeyne Westerling had monster babies when Tyanna was dead. I mean, didn't Maegor marry with his Black Brides after Tyanna's death?

Just checked the wiki while typing this... so there was Tyanna and then there were Black Brides, right? So Tyanna was responsible for monster babies. Ok.

Or maybe somebody manipulated Maegor into beliving it was Tyanna's fault, and then he had he tortured until she told him what he wanted to hear.

We know the Targaryen are perfectly able to have monster babies without the influence of magic.