Is the text worth it, besides the artwork?

[Lord Hanna]

I think it's a dick move to try and dismiss negative reviews as internet trolling. I was reading the amazon reviews just now and some of them were fairly long and detailed, without any trace of trollling and also verified purchases.

I don't agree with 1-star scores, but I wouldn't give it 4 either. Still, they bring up perfectly valid criticism which shouldn't be bashed/ignored like this.

A lot of them were posted the morning of the day it came out, so yes, it is trolling.

[Ran]

Some of them were. I won't say all are. I think some look like people who really went through it, read it, didn't like it. Fair enough.

As to other regrets, hrm... well, I wish we had 300,000 words and not 180,000 words. On the other hand, it would have killed George, so no, maybe not!

There's a lot of untapped stuff, though.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I was really, really sorry we couldn't get in more of Aegon III's regency. It'll be a treat to see it published in full, and hopefully with George filling out the rest of his reign. :)

Hopefully :) I don't mind if Fire and Blood ends up as a book that I have to carry with a wheelbarrow, tbh :P

I like the little fellow. His story is definitely heartbreaking and besides his own personal sorrows, I think he intended to be a good King. There is no much you can do about it after your family has been involved in a war that destroyed everyone you loved. I hope finding his brother at least gave him a little joy =(

Speaking of which, any plans to publish or release some of the notes of the book that didn't get to the final edition (a la JKR in her site before Pottermore?) or that goes straight to a future official book?

[Lord Freypie]

Just got the book today, and for the good third or so I've read I'd say it's a good 4/5.

It's not always litterature of main serie quality of course, 2 or 3 articles may be frustratingly too short and a few sentences don't look appropriate for a book writen for Robert (things like Rhaegar and Lyanna lighting a fire), but it's easily worth any RPG or fantasy universe cyclopedia I've read (and I'm a collector).

ps : And imo don't blame Valdred and co for bringing their concerns here, this discussion had the merit to answer several questions occasionnal lurkers of the detractors forum may have had....And show there's lot of smoke for very little fire in their stories (especially considering it took like 12 lines to answer most of the points of their 120+ pages hate thread on Linda).

[Lord Varys]

Ran,

I guess Gyldayn's history as far as George has finished it only stretches to the end of Aegon's Regency, correct?

[cgf]

Might we someday see a future World Book coming from a different culture? Maybe have the Citadel steal one of those truly ancient texts from Yin so we could have a Maester sitting down to do his translation of one of the texts they found, that way he could reference some of the other stolen texts being translated by other maesters concurrently, letting GRRM have his fun with different versions of the truth like the Barth/Yandel thing going on in this one? I just can't help but be fascinated with what the eastern histories tell of the ancient times before the written word had come to westeros.

Anyways awesome work on this, and getting Fire and Blood would be cool enough, but a Yi Ti ancient text of history would just fascinate me.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Did you cut a lot of stuff from the final version? I have seen people mention on the internet, that a lot of info about the history of the Westerlands, that GRRM read at a convention some time back did not make it into the book.

[alguien]

alguien,

Wow, did not know! Rosebud, Delia, and everyone else over there who worked on this monster did a fantastic job. We can't thank them enough.

If we're ever in the area, there'll be a standing invitation to a round or three of drinks on us. :)

Yeah Ran, it was soooo hard not to say anything. :) I basically limited my presence on the board for a while, because I was worried I'd be too tempted. Delia and Rosebud are basically superheroes in our office. It was neat to see George thank them on his Not a Blog. Everyone here was really pleased with how the book turned out. Also, we're working with a lot of those artists on some other fantastic projects. It'd be great to meet up for that drink if you guys are ever in the area. Meanwhile, congrats to you, Linda, and George on a really fantastic book!

[Urraxbane]

Some of them were. I won't say all are. I think some look like people who really went through it, read it, didn't like it. Fair enough.

As to other regrets, hrm... well, I wish we had 300,000 words and not 180,000 words. On the other hand, it would have killed George, so no, maybe not!

There's a lot of untapped stuff, though.

There's no way to know, so one has to take them for that they're worth. Is this guy trolling, for example? Obviously not. Even if some of are trolling (and a few seem to be indeed), the fact the negative response is so easily dismissed as trolling by the three authors says more about you than the trolls.

One more thing: you're right to criticize gratuitous bashing, but are the 5-star one liners any better? Amazon reviews are judged by how helpful they are. Even though I would give a better score, the analysis I linked above voices many of my issues with the book, and it's probably the most comprehensive review on amazon at the moment, yet it got many "downvotes" because people are trying to get back at the trolls. I hope you don't think that's OK either.

PS: can my thread about the wonders made by man be unlocked now?

[Bael's Bastard]

a few sentences don't look appropriate for a book writen for Robert (things like Rhaegar and Lyanna lighting a fire),

IMO some things like this can probably be chalked up to the deaths of Robert, Jon, and Ned all in a short span of time. With that, this work's intended audience changed a great deal. Very suddenly the Lannisters went from married to the king to ruling the kingdom. Cersei became Queen Regent, Tywin became Hand again, and children rumored to be Cersei's with Jaime Lannister became kings. I think it makes sense that there would be a drastic change of tone on certain matters as a result.

[Ran]

JonCon,

George is talking of publishing Fire and Blood some day, so I think that's where most of what he wrote -- at least regarding the Targaryens -- will go. Material that didn't get used for regional or Essos sections... I don't know. We did manage to get to use most of the salient points, but there's always some lively color that had to be dropped here and there.

Mrs_Darcy,

George wrote 250,000-300,000 words -- most of it on the Targaryens -- and we just couldn't use it all. Besides the Aegon's Conquest material, all the Targaryen stuff is our stuff, mixing our own drafts with synopsized versions of what George wrote. So, a lot of details fell by the wayside as we tried to fit it into the space alloted. If Fire and Blood is published, I'd say 75% of the material he wrote for the book will be published in their complete form, leaving just the non-Targaryen stuff to need some venue.

There was once talk of a second edition many years in the future, but I don't know if our conceit really works..

Kind of like the idea of a JADE COMPENDIUM or other, non-Westerosi work giving a very different look at the setting, on the other hand...

Urrax,

You can see who made some of the troll reviews via poking around their watering hole. :P

If the 5 star one-liner is from someone who genuinely read it and believes it's worth 5 stars, then I've no issue. If a 1 star comes from someone who genuinely read it and believes it's worth 1 star, I've no issue.

[yolkboy]

Ran, what was the "parallel" Linda alluded to in our LonCon interview?

[Salafi Stannis]

Wow I checked out those sad trolls on that anti GRRM site and it's really sad, those guys are honestly not funny and it's honestly sad that that's how some people spend their free time.

[Amy Walker Gore]

I personally feel like the book is worth the money. I have not bought any of the extras so far ( maps, comics, short stories and so on), I didn't want to muddy up the books and I would pick up the others after I have read all the books first. This one tempted me, it seemed to interesting to wait on reading.

I believe they have added a lot of back story we might have wondered about, family feud's, fortune's won and lost, etc.

I also take it 2 ways. The first is, GRRM did not write this book, he just approved these two to write some history book as a "maester", and the second is GRRM approved which pieces they could put in this book so he could send us all in a certain direction. I know there are people upset about this book, but they need to keep those 2 pts. in mind.

Martin himself puts gossip and rumors in his books. He will have Robert state in one chapter that Jon Snow's mother was a cleaning woman, and then in another chapter, someone tells Arya that Jon's mother was a wet nurse, another chapter Kat mentions it was a highborn lady, and so on. This book is just one person's educated guess on many points of history that he lived through or read about. If you have read all 5 books so far, you have seen this before, and have seen how useful it can be in telling this epic story, people's different reaction to the same data.

I also believe that GRRM has allowed this book to be published, because it will help us , let him wrap this story up in 2 to 3 more books. Let's face it, this story is huge, and it is not just the telling of one person's rise to the throne. GRRM has given us more then one option to how this can all end, and there are just as many people out there pulling for Dany to win as there are for Jon Snow .These last few books will have to move a lot faster then some of the other books have and I think people can now be pulled in the right direction.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Definitely worth the money, OP. I've already gushed on a couple of threads about it.

I wasn't going to say anything else, because as a newbie, it's not really my place. But I've been in fandoms nearly 20 years, and I think that Elio and Linda have created an incredible place for fans of ASOIAF and GOT to converge.... it's hard to appreciate the effort and hard work if this is your first fandom, or only one of your few. I've been an admin, I've run cons, and I've been involved in giant projects. Hard and difficult work, and a labor of love.

Some of the negative reviews seem to stem from a misunderstanding of the genre -- this isn't meant to be a book in the main ASOIAF series. I'm one of those rare readers who enjoys reading the worldbuilding, historical and source information at times better than the main text. The Silmarillion was also critiqued in its day for similar reasons.

The "too much Targaryens" critique is a critique of the series. Would I have loved more about the Starks? Yes. Will we get more Stark information later? Of course. Because you know, I don't often see it noted that ASOIAF has had multiple Stark POVs -- every member of the immediate Stark family except Robb & Rickon has had at least one POV chapter. We only have one Targaryen POV in Dany until Barristan and JonCon appear in later books.

In addition to multiple Stark POVs, we've had more than one POV into several of the other fan favorite houses, including Baratheon (Stannis & Davos), Lannister (Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion), and Greyjoy (Theon, Asha, Euron) in the main series.

As for any other kinds of controversies, I just can't get into that stuff. I'm a woman, and a "person of color" who first came to ASOIAF through the TV series. I should be a prime target to feel offended by some of the charges. Yet I have thoroughly enjoyed my first six months here, this fandom, and these boards. I don't feel as if I'm unwelcome. I've expressed feminist POVs and have been uncompromising in my defense of Dany's treatment of the slavers. I haven't been banned or received any warning points for my strong opinions about gender or colonialism, or anything else. I've enjoyed my time here, learned a lot, and fallen even more in love with the world GRRM has built.

What that shows me is that the admins and board owners 1) have an opinion, and 2) those who don't share it are free to agree or disagree as long as they do it respectfully and without breaking any board rules. This is a baseline that is the norm throughout the fandom multiverse. But everyone's mileage may vary.

Again, I strongly recommend TWOIAF. But ultimately, everyone will do whatever they feel is best for their wallets and consciences. :)

[In A Coat of Gold]

Ran,

Are there any plans for future books such as these? George has done such an amazing job with world building that dozes of books could be spun off and written.

[Lord Hanna]

Again, I strongly recommend TWOIAF. But ultimately, everyone will do whatever they feel is best for their wallets and consciences. :)

Great post, had to cut most of it out but...great post and i agree with this part the most. :D

[Linda]

Ran, what was the "parallel" Linda alluded to in our LonCon interview?

From TWoIaF: "You have a dragon. He stands before you."

From ADwD: "Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar's sister, but I am Rhaegar's son. I am the only dragon that you need."

[Lord Varys]

Linda,

ah, yeah, realized that, too. Lets hope he does not think he can treat with Cersei under a peace banner.

But not sure that he'll go down that way. We already had one young and rash king fucking things up with that kind of stuff, and both Robb and Jon adorned the Young Dragon, if I remember correctly...

[Caerl Targaryen]

Love how you refer to Elio and Linda as one entity.

I grouped them together because they seem to be singled out as a group in the negative reviews. Others single out GRRM. I haven't seen a review that's targeted just Elio or Linda. They've generally targeted both of them at the same time. But I haven't read them all. I gave up reading the negative "reviews" when I started seeing a pattern to them.

There were some legitimate negative reviews that seemed to express disappointment in the book other than the artwork. I don't agree with them about the quality of the content but if someone genuinely doesn't like something, I'm not about to tell them they're wrong.