Mithras Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Harwyn Hardhand = Euron (though Euron will fail at one point). Priest-king Lodos = Damphair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 When did Euron invade the Riverlands (or any land) by carrying longships to the next river? And the priest-king Lodos is clearly a reference to Jesus, not to something we'll see in the series again. The belief of the Drowned God is clearly some sort of Lovecraftian, viking-like Christianity, and Lodos was 'the living son of the Drowned God'. That's obvious enough. Especially the 'he is not coming back' part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 When did Euron invade the Riverlands (or any land) by carrying longships to the next river? And the priest-king Lodos is clearly a reference to Jesus, not to something we'll see in the series again. The belief of the Drowned God is clearly some sort of Lovecraftian, viking-like Christianity, and Lodos was 'the living son of the Drowned God'. That's obvious enough. Especially the 'he is not coming back' part. I think the poster probably meant that the fact that the IB carried longships overland to invade the Riverlands in the past means that Euron could do so in the future (since the title of the thread indicates things that might yet happen in the future based upon things that have happened in the past). I know that there's been speculation that Euron's forces might do that in the Reach, passing between the Mander and the Honeywine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 That would make everyone in the Reach ... especially stupid. The vibe I got from Harwyn is that the Riverlands of that time and age were lazy and not exactly eager to defend the domains of the Durrandons against any outside force. The idea that anyone could repeat this feature (or a similar feature) in the present-day situation in the Reach, the Riverlands, or anywhere in Westeros sounds very unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Harwyn Hardhand = Euron (though Euron will fail at one point). Priest-king Lodos = Damphair absolutely.. when i read that i recalled inmediatly, Fire Eater´s theory of the attack on Oldtown, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Actually, I thought that it could have been a hint about Balon's original plan for the North. That they were going to carry ships from the headwaters of the Fever River to the shore of the Narrow Sea and hit the eastern coasts, where nobody was expecting them. Also, not really a foreshadowing, but an interesting fact nevertheless and one which I have always thought was likely - Balon didn't even attempt to sack Lannisport during his Rebellion. Or to raid the shores of the Westerlands, it seems. Nor have the Ironborn ever been able to take Casterly Rock. Theon was full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 One thing Harwyn Hardhand and Euron have in common is tactical brilliance. Both used highly unconventional tactics to secure huge victories. Harwyn by carrying his longships over land and Euron by sailing further west than any Ironborn ever did, before turning back and pouncing on the Reach. Btw, one of the disappointments in TWOIAF is that we didn't get any new info on Euron's exploit during Balon's first rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Yes, I was thinking about Euron's attack to Oldtown. A decade before Aegon’s Conquest, the Blackwoods and Brackens had entered into a new private war in their ancient feud. Previously their ironborn overlords had largely ignored such conflicts amongst their vassals— indeed, if the Iron Chronicle can be believed, Harwyn Hardhand oft seemed to pit his bannermen against one another to keep them weak. This seems very similar to how Euron eliminated the opposition to him. When Harwyn returned to the Iron Islands, he found his father Qhorwyn dying, and his eldest brother two years dead from greyscale. A second brother still stood between Harwyn and the crown, and his sudden death even as the king was breathing his last remains a matter of dispute to this day. Those present at Prince Harlan’s passing all declared his death accidental, the result of a fall from his horse, but of course it would have been worth their lives to suggest otherwise. Beyond the Iron Islands, it was widely assumed that Prince Harwyn was behind his brother’s demise. Some claimed he had done the deed himself, others that Prince Harlan had been slain by a Faceless Man of Braavos. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 One thing Harwyn Hardhand and Euron have in common is tactical brilliance. Both used highly unconventional tactics to secure huge victories. Harwyn by carrying his longships over land and Euron by sailing further west than any Ironborn ever did, before turning back and pouncing on the Reach. Btw, one of the disappointments in TWOIAF is that we didn't get any new info on Euron's exploit during Balon's first rebellion. Why was the Shield Islands a huge victory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Why was the Shield Islands a huge victory? I'll just quote from the wiki on this ;) Two thousand years before the events of A Song of Ice and Fire the ironborn were free to sail up the Mander and plunder all the villages and towns all the way to Bitterbridge. Torgon Greyiron used Greyshield as his stronghold.[2] However, the Gardener Kings of the Reach armed the fisher folk of the Shield Islands to protect not only themselves, but also the river, thus giving the islands their name Basically, it has been 2000 years since the last time Ironborn held the Shield Islands (Misty Islands is what they call them). Lord Quellon Greyjoy died trying to take these isles during RR. From their position on the Shield Islands, the Ironborn control the mouth of the Mander. They are now free to raid as far as Bitterbridge now and all these Reachlords haven't even seen an Ironborn raiding party in 2000 years. Just look how far that is on this map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Dermett Corbray Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Has King Tyrion the Tormentor (and his favoured battle axe) been mentioned yet? I lol'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'll just quote from the wiki on this ;) Basically, it has been 2000 years since the last time Ironborn held the Shield Islands (Misty Islands is what they call them). Lord Quellon Greyjoy died trying to take these isles during RR. From their position on the Shield Islands, the Ironborn control the mouth of the Mander. They are now free to raid as far as Bitterbridge now and all these Reachlords haven't even seen an Ironborn raiding party in 2000 years. Just look how far that is on this map. Do the Ironborn have the manpower to actually be a threat to the Reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Do the Ironborn have the manpower to actually be a threat to the Reach? Maybe it depends upon whether the armies of the Reach are busy at KL when Margaery loses her trial... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Let's see, Jon Snow is like several of his Stark and Targaryen forebears all rolled into one given circumstances and nature of his character. Starting with Aegon the Conquer.Jon and he both like their black clothing, black mail for the most part. Aegon only rode his dragon for travel and war. Well if Jon becomes a dragonrider with his fear of heights I can see him not being on his dragon much. Aegon not much of a Tourney man, Jon " I'm the better sword but Robb is the better lance." pretty much speaks for its self. He has two sister/cousins that can be like Aegon and his two sisters.Personalities aside, Sansa is being groomed to be a master of political manipulations, Littlefinger is teaching her the art of seduction, and she's become quite the little flirt think about that interaction between her and those hedge knights Littlefinger hired at the end of Feast. Had the task of knitting a war torn realm together. While Arya's got the warrior, spy master and such down packed. I don't think so. Visenya was the seductress while Rhaenys was the flirt and both sisters ruled so it wasn't a case of one was into politics while the other wasn't. Both of them used diplomacy and tried to influence the political scene. Arya isn't a warrior. She lacks the skills and FM training is centered around that if you find you have to fight that is a sign of failure. Visenya was trained in arms from young with her brother. Arya isn't a spymaster although she does have some of the background skills that Varys has. But neither Visenya or Rhaenys were said to be spymasters. That was Tyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid1977 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I'm interested in reading fire Eater's Euron thread now. I found it but I can't link it. It's called "Euron's attack on Oldtown" and it does indeed hypothesise carrying longboats overland and ties in with some parts of the books and the Honeywine. A nice theory minus the Sam killing Euron crackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Harwyn Hardhand = Euron (though Euron will fail at one point). Priest-king Lodos = Damphair Harwyn Hardhand is a definite parallel for Euron. I think Damphair would go the way of Lodos in an act of desperation if he knew all his relatives are dead (except possibly Theon with the way he is now and unable to procreate for the house), and it would mean extinction for his house and war between the Ironborn lords over supremacy with the power vacuum. I think there may be a bit of Harren in Euron as well. Harwyn's grandson failed when he went up against the aspiring King Aegon coming from the east who wielded Blackfyre and rode a black dragon. Just recently, there seems to be an aspiring king named "Aegon" having landed from the east who may likely wield Blackfyre and is a black dragon, as they called the Blackfyres. That is just speculation. After Harren died and his line ended, the Iron Isles fell into chaos. I'm interested in reading fire Eater's Euron thread now. I found it but I can't link it. It's called "Euron's attack on Oldtown" and it does indeed hypothesise carrying longboats overland and ties in with some parts of the books and the Honeywine. A nice theory minus the Sam killing Euron crackpot. Antz posted it above Carrying longboats overland was essential to Oleg of Novgorod's victory against the wealthy, fortified city of Constantinople. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 People who usurp the throne and bastards who try to become king usually end up dead and their line extinct. Ex: The Blackfyre, Maegor the Cruel, Rhaenys and her 3 "Strong" children(though Rhaenys didn't deserve her fate neither did her children)Cersei and Robert's line better watch out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 People who usurp the throne and bastards who try to become king usually end up dead and their line extinct.Ex: The Blackfyre, Maegor the Cruel, Rhaenys and her 3 "Strong" children(though Rhaenys didn't deserve her fate neither did her children)Cersei and Robert's line better watch outYou mean Rhaenyra not Rhaenys, but many would argue that Aegon II was the usurper, not Rhaenyra, and it was Rhaenyra's line that continued (Aegon III, Viserys II, though not the poor "Strong" boys), and Aegon II's line that went extinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You mean Rhaenyra not Rhaenys, but many would argue that Aegon II was the usurper, not Rhaenyra, and it was Rhaenyra's line that continued (Aegon III, Viserys II, though not the poor "Strong" boys), and Aegon II's line that went extinctTrue thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It's interesting that the Dothraki were once unified. The author wonders if their defeat at Qhohor might represent the Western limit of their advance, but then speculates that Western Essos would be in a lot of trouble if they reunified.Who, in the current series, might wish to unify the Dothraki and lead them into Western Essos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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