[TWOIAF SPOILERS] Is Mushroom a stab or nod to the crackpot theories?

[Liver & onions]

I was reading the Winterfell part of TWOIAF and saw where Mushroom once wrote how a cache of dragon eggs may be in Winterfell. The maester writes it off as nonsense like he does at most of Mushroom's tales in the book...BUT right after that, the Maester brings up the "dragon under Winterfell" (a theory that's been around forever) and mentions how it's more nonsense than Mushroom's tale's.

I don't know but it just reminded me of crackpot theories and how a lot are totally dismissed as nonsense despite some may having a grain of truth in them. Like the majority of Mushroom's writing's. Or am I reading to much into it?

[The Faceless Bard]

I think we will find that the truth of everything mushroom related will be halfway between the written Maester accounts and the mushroom account ... Kinda like conservative and liberals coverage on the same story

[Maid So Fair]

I think that what mushroom says is usually true, you just need to discount all the sensationalist sex trysts information he so enjoys putting in. It depends on the situation, however, and he's certainly one of the less reliable sources. For instance, he might be right about Rheanyra being rejected by Cole and going to Strong for comfort, but the dangerous liaisons with Daemon are probably completely false. But it's up to interpretation.

For me, personally, if two separate sources mention something, I believe you should pay attention and therefore it's increasingly likely that there are in fact dragon eggs in Witerfell crypts as it makes no sense to mention it at all otherwise.

[mindcrash]

I think the dragon eggs under Winterfell is a red herring. Even if it proves to be true, what good would the eggs do? They'd have to hatch and have the years to grow, which is the entire problem with Dany's dragons, at least narratively.

I guess there could be the possibility that they hatched and that there are dragons living under Winterfell, but don't see how they'd survive unless there's a large food source.

[stunningsteve]

The question is, how would Mushroom even know about the eggs? He certainly was not with Jace and it seems rather unlikely that he travelled to WF and discovered them at some point after the Dance. If Jace would have known about those eggs, he would have taken them with him, because he knew about the need of dragons in the upcoming war. So he couldn't be the source of Mushrooms information either. The only reasonable source could be Cregan and his Northmen and they were only present for a day in KL. Therefore I believe it's just a made-up story, though it would be a nice twist if there were indeed some eggs or even hatchlings.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

A dragon would have to be tiny to get in the crypts unless there is a secret entrance and if it was done in secret how would Mushroom know? The hibernating dragon below Winterfell actually seems more realistic in comparison than Vermax geting in and depositing some eggs.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

at first i was thinking mushrooms grow in bull shiit

[Brother Seamus]

I think that what mushroom says is usually true, you just need to discount all the sensationalist sex trysts information he so enjoys putting in. It depends on the situation, however, and he's certainly one of the less reliable sources. For instance, he might be right about Rheanyra being rejected by Cole and going to Strong for comfort, but the dangerous liaisons with Daemon are probably completely false. But it's up to interpretation.

For me, personally, if two separate sources mention something, I believe you should pay attention and therefore it's increasingly likely that there are in fact dragon eggs in Witerfell crypts as it makes no sense to mention it at all otherwise.

The other thing is that throughout WOIAF the writer says repeatedly, "there are legends that . . ." or "there are those who believe that . . .", usually followed by some element of the supernatural or otherwise fantastic background to the novels, and then goes on to dismiss it. The fact is that in many instances we know that what he dismiss is in fact the truth.

so . . . the fact that this "dragons in wf" appears in this context makes me think it might be possible.

[Jaak]

The question is, how would Mushroom even know about the eggs? He certainly was not with Jace and it seems rather unlikely that he travelled to WF and discovered them at some point after the Dance. If Jace would have known about those eggs, he would have taken them with him, because he knew about the need of dragons in the upcoming war. So he couldn't be the source of Mushrooms information either. The only reasonable source could be Cregan and his Northmen and they were only present for a day in KL.

Jacaerys knew very well that any eggs that did hatch would take several years to be ridable. Irrelevant to the current war, for he probably hoped to win and conclude the war in a few months or years.

Hauling the eggs was pointless - there were a plenty on Dragonstone, and Rhaena was sent to Vale with three.

So if Vermax got broody while in Winterfell, leaving the clutch under the care of his dear allies the Starks seems logical.

[The hairy bear]

What Mushroom suggests is not "crackpot", at least according to usual definition of crackpot being some far-fetched theory with little to no factual basis. Most of them are reasonable suggestions, even if a little bit exxagerated or sexed up, and in some cases his proposal seems the likeliest proposition (such as in the case of Adam and Alyn 's father)

[Lord Varys]

The text itself gives a hint as to why Mushroom might have learned that Vermax laid dragon eggs in the crypts of Winterfell. He later claims that Jace's dragonseed idea wast actually his brainchild. That suggests Mushroom may have overheard a conversation between Rhaenyra/Jace after the latter's return to Dragonstone where his journey to Winterfell was discussed.

[Allyria Dondarrion]

Personally, I deduced from the whole volume that dragons need geothermal activity in the earth for their eggs to develop and hatch without magic/sacrifice. Dragonstone is an island that used to enjoy some volcanic activity, and dragons used to breed only there. They obviously had troubles adapting to the climate when the Targs fled from Valyria.

So Winterfell hot springs, why not? The theory doesn't seem unlikely, but it's difficult to determine whether it is true, of course...

[joluoto2]

Tbh, when I read the book I was sure GRRM has been lurking on this board for years, and is now debunking some of our silly theories by having them be nonsense made up By characters like Mushroom, or just casually debunk it with facts and indications that point in the other direction like with the Lannisters are secret Targaryens thingy.

[Freddie starrk]

Can't remember the exact chapter but when winterfell was burned down didn't one of the dire wolves see something dragon shaped flying over? What if the bodies of those killed by Ramsey Bolton acted as a sort of blood sacrifice. Completely crackpot I know but until winds of winter gets released I've got to keep myself amused somehow :)

[SeanF]

Mushroom is like Suetonius or Procopius. I think we should take his tales well seasoned with salt, unless verified by other sources.

I could imagine him claiming that Rhaenyra challenged a leading prostitute from Kings Landing to a contest to see how many men they could service in one night; or that she put on floor shows in which geese pecked corn from her private parts.

[Frozentree]

The dragon that heats the springs is obviously just a myth, comparable to saying an island is on a turtle's back or that a cavern system was dug by a mole.

The eggs may or may not be real, I personally don't believe it, for reasons already stated here.

In my opinion, that we received not one, but two references to dragons under WInterfell is definitely not coincidence and it has something to do with the theories based on whatever Summer saw. There are 3 possible "interactions" with the theories:

1. It is supposed to be extra evidence that summer indeed saw a real dragon
   
2. They are, together with Summer's sight, hinting/foreshadowing towards something. There is no real dragon, but somehow we are supposed to see a connection between WF and dragons.
   
3. It is just a nod to these theories, an joke from the co-authors who run this forum and see the theories constantly popping up
   

I personally find 1 rather unlikely, but it is a possibility

[Clueless Northman]

Mushroom is like Suetonius or Procopius. I think we should take his tales well seasoned with salt, unless verified by other sources.

I could imagine him claiming that Rhaenyra challenged a leading prostitute from Kings Landing to a contest to see how many men they could service in one night; or that she put on floor shows in which geese pecked corn from her private parts.

Another fan of the Secret History, I see.

Though alas there's no tale of Aegon the Conqueror wandering through Dragonstone with his (severed) head firmly stuck under his arm...

Tbh, when I read the book I was sure GRRM has been lurking on this board for years, and is now debunking some of our silly theories by having them be nonsense made up By characters like Mushroom, or just casually debunk it with facts and indications that point in the other direction like with the Lannisters are secret Targaryens thingy.

The fact the book was co-authored by someone who not only lurks but actively posts on this board should be taken into account then ;)

Still, I agree that it seems dragons need volcanic activity and the insane heat you can find there to hatch. The Fourteen Fires of Valyria, volcanic Dragonstone, probably some similar places near Asshai (the Ash river might well take his name from volcanic activity, and people have speculated the the "shadow" might come from constant volcanic ashen clouds).

[SeanF]

Another fan of the Secret History, I see.

Though alas there's no tale of Aegon the Conqueror wandering through Dragonstone with his (severed) head firmly under his arm s).

One should certainly look to Roman, as well as medieval authors, as influences for the series.

Rhaenyra was obviously smoking hot as a girl and young woman. If Mushroom is right, then both he and Prince Daemon set out to corrupt her at an early age. Mushroom wants to portray her as being a dirty little whore, from the outset. A more modern readership would see her as a young girl who was dreadfully abused by two adults that she loved and trusted.

I could imagine Mushroom writing "the Princess had not an ounce of modesty, and would readily display those parts that are best kept hidden. And she would entertain young men, sometimes a dozen or more, all at the peak of their powers and with a passion for fornication. And when she had exhausted them in turn, she would turn to their servants and attendants. And still her lust could not be satisfied.

She was wont to complain that Nature had not contrived an opening between her breasts, that another form of intercourse could be contrived."

[complexphoenix]

If there are dragon eggs in Winterfell, and I doubt there are, they are more likely to have been left by one of the dragons Jaehaerys brought on his Northern progress rather than Vermax.

[complexphoenix]

I'm inclined to believe Mushroom's account of Rhaenyra's relationship with Ser Criston, since it explains so much of what we see in TPatQ. Ser Criston comes off as really, really prudish, telling his fellow councilors how awful it would be if the bastard Jacaerys were to become King, since he and his brothers would "turn the Red Keep into a brothel" and would go around bedding every man's daughter, wife, and even the boys, after the fashion of their legal father Ser Laenor. Ser Criston seems to think that this is worth fighting a war to prevent.

Putting together his behavior in TPatQ and Mushroom's account, it seems to me that Criston Cole had serious issues around sex and a pathological fear of impurity. Being subject to sexual harassment by Rhaenyra exacerbated this and messed with his head, leading him to hate her and see her as a whore. His behavior at her wedding tourney, beating the crap out of her lover Ser Harwin and killing Laenor's lover Ser Joffrey, was probably motivated by disgust at Rhaenyra and Laenor's respective fornications. He couldn't strike either of them directly without breaking his oath, so he took it out on the men he knew they were bedding.

He supported Aegon's claim over Rhaenyra's, to the point of murdering Lyman Beesbury in cold blood, because he simply couldn't stand the thought of serving a woman he viewed as a whore, who had sexually harassed him and tried to soil his honor. I believe he should have acted differently than he did, but I can understand where he was coming from.