A liberal/conservative happiness paradox

[Ormond]

It seems appropriate to put this up on US election day but not in that thread since the research was done in Europe.

It was recently found in a survey of 16 different European countries that people who live in more "liberal" nations, according to their social policies, report being happier than those in more "conservative" countries, but WITHIN each country it's the conservatives who report higher levels of happiness. So the happiest Europeans are conservatives who live in liberal countries.

I don't know it this would really translate to other continents, and of course a "conservative" in Europe might be "liberal" in the USA. It would be really interesting if someone tried to replicate this among the 50 US states, though. :)

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/09/satisfied-citizens.aspx

[TerraPrime]

I guess that'd mean Republicans in blue states like MA?

I wonder if it also means that liberals in red states are the least happy?

[armidil0]

I guess that'd mean Republicans in blue states like MA?

I wonder if it also means that liberals in red states are the least happy?

We do suffer the greatest injustice of all. Being grouped in with representatives that are sometimes literally crazy.

[Fragile Bird]

I would suggest the reason liberals are not as happy as the conservatives is because the conservatives look at their lives and say, "I did this by myself" and the liberals look at things and say "this is good but there is still so much more that could be done, and what about people elsewhere who don't have so much".

[Alarich]

I hope they didn't confuse the European meaning of "liberal" with its American caricature when they did the survey...

[1918me]

Fascinating. I knew that liberal countries were measured as being happier overall, but wasn't aware of the data about conservatives. I'm not sure how viable any explanations I can come up for it would be, though...

[paddington]

I'd kind of imagine that the USA right is a bit further right than the UK (although some of our conservitaves seem to be trying to catch up), and the USA left is a lot more right than our left (which may actually have some proper socialist in it).

It's tough one because somethings in the US just aren't really on the agenda in the UK. Mentioning God in British politics just makes people feel akward and I don't think abortion/birth control are much of an issue (outside of Northern Ireland).

I have no clue why some people are happy and others aren't. Maybe in the UK the right are more in the rural areas and suburbs, and the left concentrated in urban areas.

[Jo498]

Liberal (more or less social democratic leaning) European countries have a lot of advantages for almost everybody. Less poor and desperate people often means less crime, less dubious neighborhoods, therefore more interesting choices of places to live, sometimes lower cost of housing. General healthcare works in a similar direction. A university education for (basically) free improves life for all but the richest 1-5%. Even well-off doctors and lawyers (earning more than 80% of the rest, but FAR less than the top 1 %) prefer not to spend $$$ on their children's education. You can alway use your $$$ to make some things more comfortable if the basic stuff is taken care of.

People will complain about taxes and stuff everywhere, so it probably does not matter too much if they are higher, there will be come complaining anyway, but this will not make conservative's lifes miserable.

So conservatives usually profit more from the "liberal benefits" than they suffer from less conservative policies. I wonder if they controlled for religiosity. Usually more conservatives are religious and religious people are overall more content and happier.

[The Notorious]

Are european university education free to all people living in the respective countries, or are there barriers and qualifications that one must meet in order to get a free university education?

[BLU-RAY]

The concept of "conservative" generally connotes some approval of the status quo/resistance to change, so in a vaccuum, one would assume that conservatives are on average happier than liberals; they think things are as they should be.

[Howdyphillip]

I guess that'd mean Republicans in blue states like MA?

I wonder if it also means that liberals in red states are the least happy?

Yes...

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Are european university education free to all people living in the respective countries, or are there barriers and qualifications that one must meet in order to get a free university education?

It's down to the country, I think. Certainly in Ireland the stark division is EU-citizen* fees versus non-EU-citizen fees, on the assumption that the non-EUers have not been paying the taxes that fund the unis. However, I think that the city/county council grants are based on pure residence (so you might pay non-EU fees but can still get a grant to help defray the cost). There are also different expectations (and resources) for mature students, "re-starters", and so on. It has changed since I last attended, so I am not 100% on the details.

Other countries might base the fees/tuition on residence alone, and not citizenship.

*ETA: I should be more precise. It's EU plus EEA plus Switzerland.

[Seli]

Are european university education free to all people living in the respective countries, or are there barriers and qualifications that one must meet in order to get a free university education?

Depends from country to country. For the example I am most familiar with: in the Netherlands it isn't free (around €1900 / $2380 per year for the bachelor at the moment, masters can be more expensive [i think, things keep changing] PhD is a paid job), and you need to have finished a pre-requisite level of school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Netherlands ). All students have access to government loans, although that used to be gift, accessibility in my opinion has decreased in past years because 'the market'.

eta: the entry fee is for EU (extended with EFTA perhaps?) citizens, people from other countries get relatively shafted (€ 7000, for a bachelor year €15000 [varying for popularity by the look of it] for a master year for one of our top universities).

[Jo498]

Of course there are qualifications one has to meet. With "free" I only meant that there is (almost) no tuition. The situation in Germany is the only one I know quite well (but I believe it is not so very different in most of the rest of Europe).

The accessibility of a university education was far more restricted in Germany until about 10 years ago. Before that one usually needed a certain type of honours high school diploma ("Abitur") only about a 3rd of all HS students achieved. There were possibilities to get access by other means, but it was rather involved. These conditions have been loosened a lot (I am not sure if this is a good thing). The Abitur is now passed by considerably more students, some more specialized (and traditionally a little less difficult) exams now also grant in principle unrestricted access to university and if one already has worked in some jobs one may also apply even when lacking the traditional Abitur.

Another good thing (but that has not much to do with liberal/conversative) and it may be somewhat restricted to Germany (and probably Austria and others) is that there are strong option to train for a job without going to university. This is a combination of the traditional apprentice/journeyman/master system with intermittent schooling at specialized high schools/technical colleges. Young people leave the general high school often after 10th grade and start their training in some company. They are already paid and get on hands training at their workplace as well as additional schooling, usually on average about one full workday at a school. After about 3 years of training they have to pass an exam (usually both practical and theoretical) and become what used to be called a journeyman in traditional trades. But this type of training is not only available for jobs like carpenter or mechanic, but also for quite a few business and administrative stuff.

Some people with such a background will later attend college/university and get a degree, others will pass a "master's exam" and become a master of their trade, others will just keep working as qualified workers. In any case it is a very good option for people who are either not doing all that well in more theoretical/academic subjects or else have a strong interest and aptitude for the more practical work. One will also start earning some money considerably earlier than with a university education.

But that's not really to the point. The main point is, I think, that although many things have changed for worse universal health care and almost free education is still a given in many European countries. And these things make life a lot less stressful for many people. More importantly probably the lower middle class, but as I said, even the upper middle class does profit as well.

[Glaurung]

I think it just has more to do with conservative people usually living in rural or less populated areas than liberals. Liberals are more likely to go to college and have more stressful and cramped lives. Rural areas in my experience are close knit communities and they have fewer worries in every day life. Crime is virtually nonexistent, expectations are known and beliefs are very similar(less confrontation), and while they do work hard, they work low-expectation jobs with less high level stress/deadlines. It is just a more simple way of life. Back home the biggest thing people are generally worrying about is whether or not we've had enough rain for a good crop...and even then it doesn't affect the average townie.

Before I went back to college, I worked a blue collar job. It was physically demanding, but I worked the same shift every day and knew exactly what to expect day to day. There was little pressure and while I didn't have much money and couldn't buy great things, cost of living was cheap and I had little to worry about. Oh and real estate was cheap, so I had a lot of space in the big house I rented for $400/month, and a huge yard...and fresh air and a beautiful countryside. Now that I live in the city, I have a stressful job with crazy deadlines. I'm competing with a lot of talented individuals trying to grow my career. While I'm making 3+ times what I did before college, cost of living through the roof and made worse by student loan payments. I pay 3 times as much for 1/4 the square footage and no yard..and city air. Every time my car breaks down it costs me $1000 or more to get running because it's impossible to find a mechanic that isn't a crook, where as back home labor is cheap and the mechanic will put in extra time to get you back on the road because he wants to help you out. My wife and I would love to start a family, but in reality we worry like crazy every time she's a day late because daycare is impossible to afford and you don't know what you're going to get...where as back home it is relatively cheap and reliable. Back home I go into the thrift store to grab something and I run into 5 people I know and have a good chat. In the city I run into a bunch of strangers and look over my shoulder as I walk away. I could go on and on...but I think that covers it. That all being said, I wouldn't move back to a small town despite the simplicity it might bring.

[Horza]

For a limited time only read Anthony Trollope's take on this phenomenon in my signature.

[maarsen]

I would suggest the reason liberals are not as happy as the conservatives is because the conservatives look at their lives and say, "I did this by myself" and the liberals look at things and say "this is good but there is still so much more that could be done, and what about people elsewhere who don't have so much".

I would suspect that the conservatives are happier in a liberal society because the right wing loons of conservatives are effectively neutralized so that the regular conservative types can finally relax and enjoy their ill gotten gains without having to listen to listen to fire and brimstone talks. Probably more sex and such helps too.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

I guess that'd mean Republicans in blue states like MA?

I wonder if it also means that liberals in red states are the least happy?

There are a lot of unhappy liberals tonight

[paddington]

Are european university education free to all people living in the respective countries, or are there barriers and qualifications that one must meet in order to get a free university education?

English universities aren't and charges can be upto £9000 pa. Scotland I believe is free for other EU memebers, but not for English/Welsh/N. Ireland who still have to pay.

[protar]

If I where to hazard a (very politically biased guess) I'd say it would be because liberal nations will tend to have better quality of life. But individual liberals are always fighting for more progress, whereas the conservatives are happy to keep things traditional and not fight for change.