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"A son to avenge me"


Denam_Pavel

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So, it occurs to me that the pregnant woman in pool from Bran's vision in the cave should probably be somewhere on the Stark family tree we now have. And if visions go chronologically backwards, and the slender girl and the tall knight are indeed Old Nan and Ser Duncan the Tall then we can narrow it down considerably.

Old Nan came to Winterfell as a nursemaid for a Brandon Stark. That can only be Artos the Implacable's first son by Lysara Karstark or Lord Willam Stark's only child by Lysanne Glover. That leaves:

Lysara Karstark (pregnant with her second son Benjen Stark)

Arya Flint (pregnant with either of her daughters by Rodrik the Wandering Wolf, meaning she didn't get her wish),

Jocelyn Stark (pregnant with a Royce)

Marna Locke (pregnant with Rickard Stark)

Or off course Eddard's mother, though Rickard would live to raise each of their sons and their daughter which would raise the question of the son needed to do avenging for.

Thoughts?

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Old Nan came to Winterfell as a nursemaid for a Brandon Stark. That can only be Artos the Implacable's first son by Lysara Karstark or Lord Willam Stark's only child by Lysanne Glover.

Nan's Brandon died at the age of three years. According to the family tree, the first son of Artos had some issue, so he can't be the Brandon in question.

Duncan and Egg visited Winterfell after 211 AC and the second vision most likely shows Benjen and Lyanna as children. So the vengeful woman must have lived sometime in between.

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I doubt it's Jocelyn, too marginal in the family tree. I also doubt it's Arya Flint: she had two daughters, and it's less poetic if her wish didn't come true. Ned's mom makes no sense, she had no other kids after Benjen, and she already had two other sons to avenge her.



So we still have Lysara Karstark, whose wish makes sense because it looks like she had twins (no numbering in the family tree...). And a guy called "The Implacable" probably died fighting and needed avenging, I guess. But, honestly, my money is on Ned's grandma Marna Locke. It would tie up nicely into the southron ambitions stuff. So the question arises naturally: how did Edwyle Stark die?


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I doubt it's Jocelyn, too marginal in the family tree. I also doubt it's Arya Flint: she had two daughters, and it's less poetic if her wish didn't come true.Ned's mom makes no sense, she had no other kids after Benjen, and she already had two other sons to avenge her.

So we still have Lysara Karstark, whose wish makes sense because it looks like she had twins (no numbering in the family tree...). And a guy called "The Implacable" probably died fighting and needed avenging, I guess. But, honestly, my money is on Ned's grandma Marna Locke. It would tie up nicely into the southron ambitions stuff. So the question arises naturally: how did Edwyle Stark die?

Well Artos died killing Raymun Redbeard who killed his brother Willam after which Edwyle became Lord, who thus had to have been born at the time. So yeah, Marna pregnant with Rickard, who ended up being raised by his maester makes the most sense. Tho Rodrik the Wandering Wolf's been mentioned enough times in the story that I'd say it's possible it's his wife and daughter in the vision.

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I have a question regarding the timeline: I thought that part of the conflict in the she-wolves was caused by no adult male Stark being around at that time. But if the Brandon Stark that Old Nan came to nurse was the son of Willam Stark, he must have been old enough to be married and father a child by the time Duncan and Egg were at Winterfell. 14/15 years old, already lost a wife and a child and still mother, aunts and maybe grandmother are fighting over the rule.



Maybe Duncan and Egg stayed for a while (some years) or came back?



Or is it also possible, that the Bran Old Nan came to nurse does not appear on the family tree?

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The woman asks for a son to avenge her not, her husband. It could easily be a Stark daughter who was assaulted or just passed over in the line of succession. It may well be one of the wives but I think we are looking for a crime done to the woman and not just a Lord dying.

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The woman asks for a son to avenge her not, her husband. It could easily be a Stark daughter who was assaulted or just passed over in the line of succession. It may well be one of the wives but I think we are looking for a crime done to the woman and not just a Lord dying.

I think you're on to something. I think this is Lord Brandon Stark's daughter, the one who was stolen by Bael the Bard.

Now, both the singers and wildlings tend to romanticize this kind of kidnapping, but what if the daughter didn't consent and wanted her son to kill Bael?

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I think you're on to something. I think this is Lord Brandon Stark's daughter, the one who was stolen by Bael the Bard.

Now, both the singers and wildlings tend to romanticize this kind of kidnapping, but what if the daughter didn't consent and wanted her son to kill Bael?

That story is totally ahistorical. Arsa Stark, if she had a son (none on the chart), did not see him become Lord of Winterfell, and the vision of the pregnant woman occurs after the visit of Dunk and Egg, which we know was in the time that Arsa's brother Beron was lord.

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So funny this topic was started i have been trying to put some leg work in on a theory but have been busy working 12 hour shifts.



So here is a bunch of random thoughts regarding Bran's visions of the pregnant girl wanting a son to avenge her and the Stark family tree.



Please guys don't shred me on this it's just preliminary i have the book but have really only read about 100 random pages of stuff i was most interested in.




So obviously the woman in the vision is a Stark or someone who lives at Winterfell because Bran sees her through that tree. One of the women that stands out in the family tree for me is Melantha Blackwood.



Ok Lord Beron Stark has 7 children, his heir Lord William Stark marries Melantha Blackwood together they have a daughter Jocelyn and then she becomes pregnant her son and future heir Edwyle Stark. At some point Lord Beron gets re-married to Lyanna Glover and his 6th sibling Rodrik (The Wandering Wolf) Stark leaves Westeros and joines the Second Sonds either as a traveler or as an exile.



Could Melantha be the girl crying in front of the Weirwood ? Reasons are maybe she caught her husband cheating on her with Lyanne Glover or maybe she was running around with the Wandering wolf and got caught which would signal his leaving Westeros.



Melantha's daughter and Rodrik's daughter both married members of house Rogers one of which has the first name Benedict then Rodrik's other daughter marries Melantha's grandson (Ned Stark's father).



Anyway that's all just a weird theory the real fishy thing about Melantha Blackwood is her name.



Greek word meaning could lead to a Melisandra hint



Mel (Dark) Antha (Flower)



Maybe Melantha and the Wandering Wolf were exiled and she was caught by slavers pregnant with a daughter named Melony, i know it thows the B+S=M theory out of the water but it would explain her Blackwood features and why the Red Priests would wanna get their hands on her due to the fact that she had Warg blood.




Just realized the post before mine from colonol green confirms the timeline for the vision


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The woman asks for a son to avenge her not, her husband. It could easily be a Stark daughter who was assaulted or just passed over in the line of succession. It may well be one of the wives but I think we are looking for a crime done to the woman and not just a Lord dying.

This^

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I'm inclined to believe that Melantha was Willam's second wife, not the Glover wife. I think the Glover wife died in childbirth. What we know of Old Nan's background mostly comes from Bran IV in GoT:

Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him. He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran’s grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard’s father. Sometimes Old Nan told it one way and sometimes another. In all the stories the little boy died at three of a summer chill, but Old Nan stayed on at Winterfell with her own children. She had lost both her sons to the war when King Robert won the throne, and her grandson was killed on the wall s of Pyke during Balon Greyjoy’ s rebellion. Her daughters had long ago married and moved away and died. All that was left of her own blood was Hodor, the simpleminded giant who worked in the stables, but Old Nan just lived on and on, doing her needlework and telling her stories.

I think that Brandon Stark was indeed the brother of Edwyle, Lord Rickard's father, and the child's mother who died in childbirth was Lyanne Glover. Willam died at the Battle of Long Lake, around 226AC. Which does give us a limit of sorts on when Nan could have come to Winterfell. If Brandon was indeed the product of Willam's first marriage (and I think the family tree indicates this too), and the same Brandon that Old Nan came to Winterfell for, and if Willam only remarried after his son's death, since Melantha Blackwood had two children, we'd have to conclude that Old Nan came to Winterfell no later than 220ish and have been at least a teenager at the time, to be a wet nurse. Old Nan being in her 90s as of the start of Game makes a certain amount of sense.

This could also give her sons who'd certainly be on the older side come Robert's Rebellion, and she'd certainly be old enough to have a grandson killed in the Greyjoy Rebellion.

Besides, how could Willam Stark remarry while his first wife still lived. Divorce doesn't seem to exist in Westeros.

Furthermore, Melantha's daughter actually married a Royce, not a Rogers. The World Book is in error there

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We don't know Rodrik fled anything, do we? I'd assume he served in the Second Sons long before his children were born. That could also explain why his daughter would end up marrying a cousin from a later generation, if Rodrik didn't have children until he was somewhat older. Rodrik is called "The Wandering Wolf" after all. His going off to join the Second Sons could just be his own wandering tendencies taking him across the Narrow Sea for adventure, especially if he didn't have any important commitments back home


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