Michael Brown Shooting Cont

[Relic]

Continue here.

[Relic]

Merentha stated

"If Wilson had shot Brown while being punched, frog eater might have a point. But he shot him 30 feet away. But afaik, Brown ran away, stopped, and turned around to either put his hands up as reported by numerous bystanders or he attempted to charge an armed man who had already fired on him. One of those scenarios seems much more likely to me. "

And that is completely right. I'm not sure how anyone can use the alleged punch in the mouth as justification for shooting an unarmed kid who was running away.

[Summah]

I think this actually the 5th thread, if you want to edit the title.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Wilson is guilty

I have not said, ever, that Wilson is guilty. Others might have. I think Wilson has likely over-reacted, but whether that constitutes murder, or manslaughter, or justifiable homocide, I will have to see more evidence. So far, there are many problems with his story, with the most troubling part being that he had not filed an incident report at all and can now freely construct his version of the event based on the evidence discovered, thus ensuring that his version of the story will fit the evidence. This fact alone should trouble anyone who claims to want to see justice done.

Even if Wilson were to be charged and found guilty of a crime, I feel that the larger issue of systemic racism will still not be tackled. Holding one small cog in a large machine accountable is a good start, but it doesn't really resolve the important issue of racism in Ferguson. But, perhaps, if Wilson is rightfully tried and found guilty, it could begin the process of healing and reconciliation.

One can hope.

Re: Relic

Forensic evidence showed that Brown was more likely to be facing Wilson when the fatal shots were fired, not facing away. That aligns with the witness report that Brown was facing Wilson and may have even looked like he's taking a step towards Wilson.

Just pointing this out because when you're already arguing against people who think Brown is a criminal, it helps to get the details right so they don't sidetrack you.

[Relic]

Re: Relic

Forensic evidence showed that Brown was more likely to be facing Wilson when the fatal shots were fired, not facing away. That aligns with the witness report that Brown was facing Wilson and may have even looked like he's taking a step towards Wilson.

Just pointing this out because when you're already arguing against people who think Brown is a criminal, it helps to get the details right so they don't sidetrack you.

You're right. I was under the impression, however, that Wilson fired his sidearm while Brown had his back turned, at least once. The fatal shot came from the front, and at closer range than some of the other wounds, no?

If Wilson does not go to trail he should, at the very least, be stripped of his badge and pension. That kid did not have to die even IF he punched Wilson, and any cop who uses deadly force then deadly force would have been averted should lose their jobs.

[The Fallen]

theprince:

Definitely the latter. They deny the obvious proof and excuse it because Brown wasn't charged and convicted. By their own logic, wouldn't Wilson also be considered innocent? Uh oh...

Innocent of killing Michael Brown? Only if Michael Brown killed himself.

Right now he's innocent of any crime, just as Michael Brown is innocent of any crime.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

theprince:

Definitely the latter. They deny the obvious proof and excuse it because Brown wasn't charged and convicted. By their own logic, wouldn't Wilson also be considered innocent? Uh oh...

Innocent of killing Michael Brown? Only if Michael Brown killed himself.

Right now he's innocent of any crime, just as Michael Brown is innocent of any crime.

Now Wilson's innocent... I must have been confused by the four previous threads calling him a racist blood thirsty murderer.

[The Fallen]

Now Wilson's innocent... I must have been confused by the four previous threads calling him a racist blood thirsty murderer.

He hasn't been convicted of a crime. That doesn't mean he's not a racist asshole. But as Terra Prime has stated, this shooting is a microcosm of a larger problem in our country. It's bigger than Darren Wilson.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Meh, systematic racism is the left's scare tactic... Nothing racist about this case.

[The Fallen]

Right, because Jim Crow didn't exist, nor segregated schools. Because blacks aren't steered away from white neighborhoods when trying to purchase a home. And many other practices.

[DanteGabriel]

Right, because Jim Crow didn't exist, nor segregated schools. Because blacks aren't steered away from white neighborhoods when trying to purchase a home. And many other practices.

These guys have never acknowledged those facts, or hand-waved them away as too inconvenient to square with what they know to be true: that racism is no longer a problem because we have a half-black President and that the true racists are people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, for pretending that racism is still a problem.

[TerraPrime]

Meh, systematic racism is the left's scare tactic... Nothing racist about this case.

So how do you explain the different rates at which black and white residents of Ferguson were stopped by police for questioning in light of the lower rate of successful arrest amongst black residents who were stopped? If it is not a symptom of the systemic racism, then what is it? What could explain this data?

[aceluby]

Now Wilson's innocent... I must have been confused by the four previous threads calling him a racist blood thirsty murderer.

Please quote ONE person that has called Wilson that.

The hyperbole is tiring.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

So how do you explain the different rates at which black and white residents of Ferguson were stopped by police for questioning in light of the lower rate of successful arrest amongst black residents who were stopped? If it is not a symptom of the systemic racism, then what is it? What could explain this data?

"The racial makeup of the city was 29.3% White, 67.4% Black, 0.4% Native American, 0.5% Asian, 0.4% fromother races, and 2.0% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.2% of the population."

Per Wikipedia

[DanteGabriel]

"The racial makeup of the city was 29.3% White, 67.4% Black, 0.4% Native American, 0.5% Asian, 0.4% fromother races, and 2.0% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.2% of the population."

Per Wikipedia

I don't know how that passes for analysis, since you'd also need to have some numbers on the number of traffic stops by race. Or are you just making the facile assumption that there are more black people stopped by the police because there are more black people in Ferguson? I can see how someone would think that's a quick and easy way to answer the question, if they had no experience at all in critical analysis and were unable to tell the difference between the rate at which something happens (that word is right there in TP's post that you quoted) vs the raw numbers.

Luckily, other people have compared population numbers against pull-over numbers to determine the rate at which various ethnicities were pulled over!

Ferguson police are much more likely to stop, search and arrest African-American drivers than white ones. Last year, blacks, who make up a little less than two-thirds of the driving-age population in the North County city, accounted for 86 percent of all stops. When stopped, they were almost twice as likely to be searched as whites and twice as likely to be arrested, though police were less likely to find contraband on them.

Sadly, most of the rest of Missouri has some pretty racist police behavior too:

Pronounced as those statistics may seem, they don’t necessarily make Ferguson an outlier.

The figures are provided by the state’s attorney general’s office, which collects the data from police agencies and creates a disparity index comparing the racial breakdown of drivers stopped to the racial breakdown of the driving age population in the police jurisdiction where they were stopped. An index of one means there is no disparity for a particular race. The index for blacks in Ferguson is 1.37.

Statewide, the disparity index for blacks — 1.59 — is higher than in Ferguson. The same is true for many other local police jurisdictions.

On the other hand, the disparity index for whites, at 0.38, is one of the lowest in the state. The statewide index is 0.96.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-stops-in-ferguson-what-are-the-numbers/article_012cf751-9cec-5733-8025-09e03abb9d86.html

These numbers were bandied about numerous times in earlier versions of this thread, when I am pretty sure you were participating. Strange that you missed all that. Like evidence that contradicts your own beliefs gets ignored or something.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Please quote ONE person that has called Wilson that.

The hyperbole is tiring.

Racist? Or murderer?

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

I don't know how that passes for analysis, since you'd also need to have some numbers on the number of traffic stops by race. Or are you just making the facile assumption that there are more black people stopped by the police because there are more black people in Ferguson? I can see how someone would think that's a quick and easy way to answer the question, if they had no experience at all in critical analysis.

Luckily, other people have compared population numbers against pull-over numbers to determine the rate at which various ethnicities were pulled over!

Sadly, most of the rest of Missouri has some pretty racist police behavior too:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-stops-in-ferguson-what-are-the-numbers/article_012cf751-9cec-5733-8025-09e03abb9d86.html

These numbers were bandied about numerous times in earlier versions of this thread, when I am pretty sure you were participating. Strange that you missed all that. Like evidence that contradicts your own beliefs gets ignored or something.

That's the answer to the question unless your trying push systematic racism.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

So are the cops considered racist in cities where whites are the majority and stopped more frequently? Kind of destroys your argument, doesn't it?

[DanteGabriel]

That's the answer to the question unless your trying push systematic racism.

This response literally makes no sense. Seriously, what are you trying to say?

So are the cops considered racist in cities where whites are the majority and stopped more frequently? Kind of destroys your argument, doesn't it?

What the fuck are you reading that you concluded that's what the argument is? Blacks are pulled over more frequently in Ferguson than their share of the population would suggest.

[Suttree]

So are the cops considered racist in cities where whites are the majority and stopped more frequently? Kind of destroys your argument, doesn't it?

Ok you have to be trolling. Refuse to believe anyone can possibly be this stupid.