Maid So Fair Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think Tywin is a great CHARACTER, yes. Fascinating yes. But again, so is Lord Vader. But actually "like" him and "admire" him, I do not. Fair enough, I might have misunderstood what you meant. I love Tywin as a character, not as a person. I like the Starks as both. And I love Vader, too! Plenty of love to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 @sji4y Even that's debatable. @Lord Lannister That too is debatable. Also, the OP says he likes Jon Snow so he doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deicida Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Ned: This guy lived in a "black and white"-world. You're good as long as you're honorable, but if you do something "unhonorable" no matter what reasons you had you're bad. Robb: A teenage boy who acted so "honorable", but when he saw two pretty eyes he forgot all his oaths. Sansa (pre-AFfC): Annoying, superficial teenager. Agreed, but I think Ned and Sansa are tolerable. Arya: How can someone like this annoying little psycho assassin? Courageous, intelligent, fueled by a burning desire for vengeance - what's not to like? Show-Arya has annoying moments, but I can't think of any from the books. As for the psycho part, I can't see anything wrong with her, especially considering what she's been put through. It also doesn't hurt that she has some of the most interesting POV chapters. Bran: His POV's are terrible... is that a valid reason? I don't think they're terrible, though I can see why you don't like them. Rickon: What the fuck is a Rickon?! Also agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiliana Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Other than Sansa and Arya the rest are poor creations as characters. Ned is Ned, the pure angel of truth, honor and justice. Robb (or tell don't show:the character) is Ned made in Taiwan, Bran is "the little kid who is magical" and has no character development in all of his chapters and Rickon is just non-existent which is forgiveable in a 5 year old I suppose. So yes, I can see how they can be disliked although GRRM is tireless in his pursuit of making you like them (maybe he should try adding depth? Just a thought) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 @Lord Lannister That too is debatable. Also, the OP says he likes Jon Snow so he doesn't count. Eh, he was born to a Stark(no matter what theory you follow) was raised with the Starks and acts like the Starks. If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and looks like a duck.... But there's not much to debate by the numbers, but let's go by chapters. AGoT: 53/72 chapters ACoK: 40/69 chapters ASoS: 43/80 chapters AFoC: 6/45 chapters ADwD: 18/71 chapters Total: 159/337 So yeah, nearly half the chapters in the whole series are told from a Stark POV. Not much debatable by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I already answered that. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. For starters, Jaime and Cersei seemed to have been ignored. If we actually look at it, Sansa, Arya and Bran are main characters. Then there are at least, Dany, Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei. Therefore, the OP doesn't hate most of the main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I don't see what there is to debate unless you're being stubborn and/or dislike the Starks. The main characters are Starks, Targaryens... and Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What readers like =/= what an author intends. We might not like the Starks (I do like them), but it would be very absurd to assume GRRM wrote the story to make Tywin, Ramsay or Roose sympathetic after all the damage they have done to the Starks, precisely. I couldn't try to analyse the books entering the debate thinking they are not important because I'm already having a very wrong perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Targaryen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I don't see what there is to debate unless you're being stubborn and/or dislike the Starks. The main characters are Starks, Targaryens... and Tyrion. I agree with Lee-Sensei that Stannis should also be considered a main character, even though he's not a POV. Theon as well. It will be interesting to see how much space Aegon is given going forward; if he ends up being involved in the final showdown, he might become one of the primaries as well (though he doesn't qualify yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Targaryen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 For what it's worth, I do like all of the Starks (including Jon). Arya and Jon have been kicking ass periodically, unlike many it seems I actually enjoyed Bran's chapters, and I liked Robb even though he was in the background most of the time. As for Ned, I feel that the impression of lameness that he gives many readers is largely because he was just in over his head in Kings Landing; Robert should never have brought him down there. And in any case, he was set up to fail by Martin as one of the major early plot points of the story. Rickon is simply an unknown quantity; hopefully he'll return to the action soon. I suppose we should include Cat here as well. She's the only one I didn't particularly like, both alive and undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aestas Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I personally am just amazed you found everyone but Jon to be boring... he's one of the ones I'm most bored by. I'm generally inclined to say I'm not a super fan of the Starks, save Sansa (& Arya) ... but I wouldn't say I dislike them. They try. I want Bran to be more interesting, I really am so intrigued by the mythos of the world, but it can be hard to get into his chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Stark-Targaryen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 How can anyone dislike the Starks? They're more than half of what makes ASOIAF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess That Was Promised Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Okay I'm here to defend Bran (first major POV of the series btw). I admit that I find his chapters a little boring sometimes, but I think as a character he's very good and his chapters are incredibly important to the story as a whole. Not just the plot stuff, but he's the youngest POV, he's disabled yet he doesn't let it hinder him, and I think without him the books may come off as pretty nihilistic. The first three novels are very much about the politics of Westeros, as are the next two in a different way, but Bran's storyline is very detached from that, and I think that might be why some people might get a little bored reading it. However that will be very very important in the transition into the final two books where magic is going to play a much bigger role than it has so far, I think Bran's going to make the shift from the Iron Throne squabbles to Oldtown and the Others and magic much smoother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onime Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Well, this isn't a hate-thread. As I said I understand the reasons why they're so loved. They're the typical good guys, but that makes them so uninteresting and boring to me. Characters like Jaime or Tyrion are so wonderful "realistic" and inscrutable. They've done some dark things but had their reasons for. Tywin also belongs to this group I think (if you see his deeds in the eyes of a medieval feudal lord the most makes perfect sense). I just can't identify with the Starks. They're so... inhuman good. When I read Jaime POV's I think "Yes, I understand you bro.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Mhm... LF, Tywin and Roose. well aren't you a special snowflake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys - The last dragon Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 In A Game of Thrones the only two characters that aren't Starks are Tyrion and Dany. So 6/8 are StarksIn A Clash of Kings, we've lost Ned and the POVs branch out a bit with Davos and Theon. 5/9 are Starks.In A Storm of Swords, we add Sam to the POVs. So 5/10 are StarksIn A Feast of Crows, is where the Stark dominance in the novels starts to wane. Only 2/12 here.In A Dance with Dragons, Jon and Bran are back, but no Sansa. So 3/16 here. So it's fair to say in the first half of the story, the Starks -are- the primary antagonists of the series. Yep. ---This thread is obviously a "troll". To dislike someone because they are trying to do the "right thing", heh. You might find 'em boring, but dislike them? Puh. If people have your believes there is no wonder that there are a lot of wars in this world- when some dislike others for trying to do the right thing. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 ^Just because someone dislikes popular characters, doesn't mean they're trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly of Harrenhal Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I can't entirely blame you, though I like the starks myself. They either started good and worsened, or vice versa (sansa, thank God you changed ) its like me with the targaryens. Everyone seems to like them because of dany and her dragons (*cough* our tv show watching only friends *cough*) but when i think about them, i see my reasons to dislike them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Well, you don't HAVE to like them.It would just seem to make reading the books tedious when you don't like most of the main characters.I wonder how half the people on this forum enjoy these books tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Eh, he was born to a Stark(no matter what theory you follow) was raised with the Starks and acts like the Starks. If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and looks like a duck.... But there's not much to debate by the numbers, but let's go by chapters. AGoT: 53/72 chapters ACoK: 40/69 chapters ASoS: 43/80 chapters AFoC: 6/45 chapters ADwD: 18/71 chapters Total: 159/337 So yeah, nearly half the chapters in the whole series are told from a Stark POV. Not much debatable by that. :agree: Not really sure how you can hate the Starks and still enjoy the first 3 books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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