Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 7 [show spoilers, book spoilers past OP]

[ADanceWithCats]

We also have to consider that even if they do reintroduce this part of the story, it will have been three years before they get to it again. That is, in the best terms, less than ideal.

I wonder whether casual viewers who have not read the books even know who the Blackfish is.

Wasn't Lysa reintroduced after 3 years?

They reintroduced Rorge and Biter. I think that with a "previously on", people will manage.

[dielsis]

I kinda hope it isn't real - I was bummed at first but now agree with the post on WOTW about the inclusion of LSH, and if the pic is real then it'll give me hope about her again even if that isn't her scene.

I'm sure lots of us know it, but for future stuff like this:

• Take image filename - 1669662_10154915332700010_8412159183351620179_o.jpg
• Take second set of numbers - 10154915332700010
• Place at the end of this url - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=

If it comes up with that "content unavailable" then I take with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Don't click the link. I can't get it to not convert to a link.

Wasn't Lysa reintroduced after 3 years?

You have a good point, though one could say that Lysa stands out for having been in memorable scenes with Tyrion and being in a very memorable location. I just checked with some friends and aside from one who has read the books, none knew who Blackfish was. Of course, if he gets a big scene, people will probably "suddenly" remember him.

[igrewupinKL]

at this stage, if jaime's riverlands arc is completely cut i'd rather not have LSH

the riverlands plot was awesome from Jaime's POV and i'm sad we wont get to see it :(

[The Dragon Demands]

Frankly I don't mind *truncating* the Riverrun storyline, but I do want it to be a single five minute scene in one episode. Other posters are correct: it involves MANY characters who were never introduced in the TV series. All I want is a cold open on Jaime riding on a horse up to a barge with Brynden Tully on it, Brynden mocking him, then Jaime returning to a Lannister camp tent and threatening Edmure, followed by a statement that Riverrun indeed surrendered but the Blackfish swam away and remains at large. This would truly only take 5 minutes. Beyond that, why not send Jaime to Dorne? The TV show has often had face to face meetings with what were only letters exchanged in the books (i.e. with Tycho and the Iron Bank).

But we need SOME Riverrun in there.

Also, I wrote up the summary of Season 5 on the Game of Thrones Wiki, but largely based on educated guesses and speculation of course -- we really have no "official" description. I know as much as you guys.

But we know some general things such as 1 - Massive debt to the Iron Bank will be a major factor, 2 - the High Sparrow and Faith Militant are going to be a major factor.

I have no idea how they're going to handle events at the Wall, etc. Similarly, we know that Tyrion and Daenerys are IN Season 5 in Essos, but otherwise, pure guesswork how that plays out. I'm not even sure if Sansa is IN Season 5 that much, though I hope she is.

As for the Martells you'll notice that I haven't updated the wiki family tree at all...because their descriptions were so confusing that *Elyo himself* had to write in to HBO to ask if they were mistaken, only to be told "no comment". So I've shifted to a "wait and see" attitude, because analyzing the botched character descriptions they put out now is just grasping at straws (they can't make Trystane the "heir" of Doran....the TV series *itself* already referred to him as the "youngest" son!)

[Faint]

I just have a hard time reconciling Catelyn making an appearance with Jaime and Brienne being removed from the Riverlands theater. One needs the other. Once you remove Jaime and Brienne from Catelyn's story, then she really does become this silly plot contrivance that critics accuse her of being.

[The Dragon Demands]

As for Lady Stoneheart, while I would like news of confirmation, I'm not holding my breath:

Logically, there's a strong chance they'd leave it in as the cliffhanger ending for Season 5 - given that they previously complained that they had no equivalent at that point for strong scenes like Ned's execution, the Battle of the Blackwater, the Red Wedding, or the Battle of Castle Black and Tywin's death. They need something else big so I think they put it off - and fine.

It was so odd that many people worried about lack of Lady Stoneheart after the Season 3 finale, when I was left gaping at the screen that they cut out Tysha. Stoneheart can happen *eventually*, versus screwing up one of the iconic moments from the books...the CLIMAX of the third novel....

But my attitude is this: There's a strong chance they want it to be a surprise, and thus would keep information about the actress returning under heavy wraps. Thus up until the final frame of Season 5 episode 10 finishes, I'll still think there's a chance she will appear.

This isn't something they could come out and tell us; that's why it's a "surprise revelation".

So there really is nothing anyone can say that I will take as "confirmation" that she's not in it. Benioff and Weiss would simply be *lying* to try to throw us off.

So we can't disprove she will appear....while on the other hand, it would be nice to get a spy photo confirmation or more likely, set report that someone saw the actress in Belfast.

[dielsis]

I just have a hard time reconciling Catelyn making an appearance with Jaime and Brienne being removed from the Riverlands theater. One needs the other. Once you remove Jaime and Brienne from Catelyn's story, then she really does become this silly plot contrivance that critics accuse her of being.

Yup. My desire to hear someone say, "She don't speak… but she remembers," on screen is tempered by the deflation of Jaime/Brienne significance in that plot line. That doesn't mean that the writers don't have something planned to keep her from being just "lol Frey-killing zombie" and we also don't know what George has planned, so who knows. But I certainly feel like it was necessary to take Jaime from that arc for Dorne in show world and that move negated LSH's appearance.

[Colonel Green]

(they can't make Trystane the "heir" of Doran....the TV series *itself* already referred to him as the "youngest" son!)

That's called a continuity error, since at the time they wrote Season 2 they weren't sure how they'd adapt AFFC/ADWD.

Regardless of the wisdom of cutting the older Martell siblings, I'd much rather the showrunners adapt the series as they feel is appropriate than feel bound by placeholder dialogue from seasons before.

[The Dragon Demands]

That's called a continuity error, since at the time they wrote Season 2 they weren't sure how they'd adapt AFFC/ADWD.

Regardless of the wisdom of cutting the older Martell siblings, I'd much rather the showrunners adapt the series as they feel is appropriate than feel bound by placeholder dialogue from seasons before.

Oh I don't mind and frankly don't care if they cut Quentyn.

It's the cutting of Arianne which I find *utterly baffling*. Wouldn't it make more sense to make only 2 Sand Snakes and Arianne (if they must prioritize) than 3 Sand Snakes and NO Arianne? And the bizarre lack of mention that the Dornish follow equal primogeniture.

It seems that the attitude has been a lot of "yup, that's what they're doing" instead of "...doesn't anyone discuss this with them?"

[Colonel Green]

It's the cutting of Arianne which I find *utterly baffling*. Wouldn't it make more sense to make only 2 Sand Snakes and Arianne (if they must prioritize) than 3 Sand Snakes and NO Arianne?

If they're removing Arianne's future plotline, which seems like a pretty decent bet at this point, I would say it makes more sense to keep the Sand Snakes and have them fulfill their book functions rather than shoehorn Arianne into one of their roles. An Arianne who is replacing the role and actions of Nymeria isn't really Arianne at all, anyway.

[Hippocras]

Oh I don't mind and frankly don't care if they cut Quentyn.

It's the cutting of Arianne which I find *utterly baffling*. Wouldn't it make more sense to make only 2 Sand Snakes and Arianne (if they must prioritize) than 3 Sand Snakes and NO Arianne? And the bizarre lack of mention that the Dornish follow equal primogeniture.

It seems that the attitude has been a lot of "yup, that's what they're doing" instead of "...doesn't anyone discuss this with them?"

No it wouldn't because each of the Sand Snakes goes somewhere different and has a different role. None can be simply merged with someone as drastically different as the Dornish heir.

[dielsis]

It seems that the attitude has been a lot of "yup, that's what they're doing" instead of "...doesn't anyone discuss this with them?"

For all we know it *was* discussed. I get your point, though.

[igrewupinKL]

if it was Arianne and 2 sand snakes it could work. Nymeria and Tyene would fulfill their book functions. Areo will take over Obara's role and Arianne can do whatever she does in the book.

I'm thinking Arianne must do something significant in the books that they are planning to skip in the show...something fAegon related.

[The Dragon Demands]

Well to debate this would be only to rehash the same old arguments, we'll wait until we know more.

But just in general it boggles the mind, how they cut out the Tysha reference. What I wouldn't give for a candid fly-on-the-wall account of the discussions they had with GRRM about that.

You see some changes like "maybe we won't have time for Shireen or the other Tyrell brothers" -- simple matter of screentime, I get that. But the Tysha stuff? You cut out *other* things to make time for THAT!!

....what's strange is that I suspect they're pulling another Shireen on us.....being very vague and coy about whether Arianne even exists or not. They tend to do that when they *want* to include characters but put them in "limbo", hoping to later make a retcon saying they were there all along. I hate the vagueness much more than if they'd just up and front honestly said, "we don't think we have enough time to include Arianne".

which I think is kind of implausible....I mean you can get away with saying "Stannis has no sons" in Season 2 only to then reveal he has a young daughter who doesn't go out much because she has greyscale. It's kind of harder to say "my eldest child and heir Arianne wasn't on-screen last season".

It's a dangerous game they're playing.

[Colonel Green]

But just in general it boggles the mind, how they cut out the Tysha reference. What I wouldn't give for a candid fly-on-the-wall account of the discussions they had with GRRM about that.

While they get information from GRRM, I don't think it's ever been suggested that he's really involved in their adaptation planning. He writes his episode based on the outline of the season that they develop; otherwise he doesn't have much to do with the writing process.

....what's strange is that I suspect they're pulling another Shireen on us.....being very vague and coy about whether Arianne even exists or not. They tend to do that when they *want* to include characters but put them in "limbo", hoping to later make a retcon saying they were there all along. I hate the vagueness much more than if they'd just up and front honestly said, "we don't think we have enough time to include Arianne".

The writers don't provide explicit justifications for every change they make. The very fact that you think doing that with Arianne would be implausible is a pretty obvious indication that they aren't doing it. It simply makes no sense to introduce Arianne separately from the rest of Dorne, if they were planning to do that at all. Arianne is the main character of that plot in the books, functions which have quite clearly been reassigned elsewhere.

The Shireen thing isn't really a good comparison either, since that was in the early stages, whereas Season 5 was planned with the writers knowing the whole endgame of the story. If Arianne was going to be in the show, she would be in this season.

[Hrafntýr]

at this stage, if jaime's riverlands arc is completely cut i'd rather not have LSH

the riverlands plot was awesome from Jaime's POV and i'm sad we wont get to see it :(

I feel for you. Jaime's Riverlands chapters are among my favorites. But I love all the Riverlands chapters.

Oh I don't mind and frankly don't care if they cut Quentyn.

It's the cutting of Arianne which I find *utterly baffling*. Wouldn't it make more sense to make only 2 Sand Snakes and Arianne (if they must prioritize) than 3 Sand Snakes and NO Arianne? And the bizarre lack of mention that the Dornish follow equal primogeniture.

It seems that the attitude has been a lot of "yup, that's what they're doing" instead of "...doesn't anyone discuss this with them?"

I'm among those who think that Arianne could still be in for season 6. It could work that Trystane as heir to Dorne could function in a manner similar to Arianne's belief that Doran planned to make Quentyn his heir; she could appear, perhaps working with the Sand Snakes, attempting to assert her rights as heir to Dorne. It admittedly stretches the bounds of plausibility that no one in the Seven Kingdoms would know that Doran has an elder daughter with her own claim to the throne, but then again it also is hard to believe that Doran would send Trys off to Dany if Trys is his only child.

[Colonel Green]

but then again it also is hard to believe that Doran would send Trys off to Dany if Trys is his only child.

But there's absolutely nothing to suggest Doran is going to do that. The Dornish plotline in the show continues until at least episode 9, which is also about where Daznak's Pit is. Trystane's not going anywhere.

[boojam]

Wasn't Lysa reintroduced after 3 years?

They reintroduced Rorge and Biter. I think that with a "previously on", people will manage.

I believe Kate Dickie did some shooting in season 3 but they did not use it, it's hard to know if it was used in season 4, I think not, so there are 'delete scenes' we may never see.

I am still astonished Andy Beckwith and Gerard Jordan showed up in season 4, but that could have been only half a days shooting!

I guess , for season 1, Ian McElhinney had only a one season contract? Cause it made minor news when signed for season 3.

Now we have actors who would give anything to come back. I wonder what they told Rory since methinks he will indeed be back.

[ThunderG]

Just rewatched Twin Peaks and it has a Martell family, an evil dwarf and a black lodge which serves as a portal and might be a cave.

Is this how it ends? :dunno:

[Janicia]

I am very curious how Jaime will end season 5. We know that he'll have the big meeting with Doran in episode 9, but what will Jaime's plan be after that? Did Doran agree for Jaime to take Myrcella back to Kings Landing? Did Jaime agree to a peace deal that leaves Myrcella in Dorne? If Jaime gets permission to return Myrcella, they'll probably just get ambushed at the beginning of season 6, right? Myrcella has to stay with the Dornish so she can get her crown and shroud.

Whatever happens, Jaime's obvious move after leaving Dorne is to return to Kings Landing since his primary responsibility is protecting Tommen. But Jaime probably can't go back to Kings Landing, since he's supposed to be wandering around in the Riverlands with Brienne at that point. So something has to divert him.

Will Jaime find out about Cersei's imprisonment or hear from Brienne before the end of the season? That would be the best way to divert him from Kings Landing. I could see maybe squeezing that into the end of season 5, but it seems like episode 10 will be pretty high energy and Jaime reading his mail might not fit. So maybe Jaime doesn't get news before season 6? Or maybe Jaime gets news during the season break and pops up in the Riverlands with some exposition in season 6? But that seems bad.