Bran's Weirwood Vision

[wolfmaid7]

My ideas revolve around a group of human greenseers becoming others through some kind of transformation / resurrection process, or creating Others through the same. I do not think anyone like BR is controlling or raising wights, but someone like BR may have created them or transformed into them somehow. I don't want to get into the weeds because I am still working on it but that's the tree I'm barking up ;)

Thanks for directing me to all that, some good stuff there about garth. I see several characters playing the garth role, but sometimes they are "dark" and sometime "sunny," which seems to be a manifestation of the Oak / Holly King duality.

One thing about the Baratheons: they are the BLACK stag, not the green stag. Kind of sounds like a rebel greenseer, doesn't it?

Yeah i like the reoccuring theme of the Oak and Holly myth because the outcome can be so different in this story.Ahhh i see the difference where you're going at.Yeah to me its not really resurrection, just the Winter king skinchanging the dead.I think our end result is the same though. I think there is a gove like BR that are the Others just the Winter version od BR's posse.Hence the Oak and Holly king.If BR aint lying and every song has its balance then he has a counter and its a winter version.

It would be nice to see how many of them are left.I know there still must be some on the Isle of faces and if the Green men there are only "care takers."I don't know if we'll ever get to see them though.It would be nice.

It does sound like a rebel GS but i'm not sure all the GSs were on board with the pact that occured long ago.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

And am I the only one whose eyes bug out when they read that "do not seek to call him back" line? I mean, if you couldn't do it, if it were impossible, no need to warn about this. Ergo, greenseers can raise the dead. I'm thinking this may have something to do with the creation of the Others and the nature of Coldhands.

Actually, I have a shit ton of notes about this subject exactly... Still trying to piece it together.

I also wanna add to that statement that from what i remember Bloodraven tells Bran not to talk to the people he sees that they won't hear him but they do. Will Bran time travel and stop it all from happening in the end ?

[LmL]

Bran-ception

[LmL]

Wolfmaid, have you read this from Evolett? I really think she's on to something here.

https://bluewinterrose.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/the-making-of-a-white-walker-a-model/

[wolfmaid7]

Wolfmaid, have you read this from Evolett? I really think she's on to something here.

https://bluewinterrose.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/the-making-of-a-white-walker-a-model/

Will read tommorrow.

[Old Ida]

Wolfmaid, have you read this from Evolett? I really think she's on to something here.

https://bluewinterrose.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/the-making-of-a-white-walker-a-model/

I really liked it - the Stark´s bone remember

[Lord Ravenstark]

Maybe Greenseers spend a lot of time in the weirwoods, so their bodies would simply die by lack of nourishment. The weirwoods would act as life support.

[wolfmaid7]

Wolfmaid, have you read this from Evolett? I really think she's on to something here.

https://bluewinterrose.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/the-making-of-a-white-walker-a-model/

II just read this and there's a fair amount i agree with.I don't want to hijack this thread though...lol

Maybe Greenseers spend a lot of time in the weirwoods, so their bodies would simply die by lack of nourishment. The weirwoods would act as life support.

I think they certainly have in this case.

[LmL]

You should go comment on her wordpress and get the convo going. I commented already, and I'll see whatever you post there. She doesn't have that theory on Westeros right now.

[Evolett]

Wolfmaid, have you read this from Evolett? I really think she's on to something here.

https://bluewinterrose.wordpress.com/2015/05/04/the-making-of-a-white-walker-a-model/

Thanx for the mention, LmL and I'm happy those of you who have read it, like it :)

I have a few ideas on the OP - actually it ties in with some discoveries / insight's I've had this week:

“I saw him.” Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. “He was cleaning Ice.”

It seems to me that the weirwood tree reacts specifically to Bran seeing Ned actually cleaning Ice. Ned always cleans Ice directly under the heart tree after he's had to mete out justice. This means there's blood on the blade which is 'sacrificed' to the tree during the cleaning process. I think the weirwood tree wants Bran to make a connection between the blood and the greenseeing gift and sort of 'nudges' him by pressing into Bran's cheek. In fact, I suspect that the visions recorded by the trees are actually stored in the blood sacrificed to the trees. I'll try to explain this

Consider these two instances of prophecy that we've seen. Both involve tasting blood:

“She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her,” said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, “but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse.”

“Maegi?”

“Is that how you say it? The woman would suck a drop of blood from your finger, and tell you what your morrows held.” (Cersei)

“Bloodmagic is the darkest kind of sorcery. Some say it is the most powerful as well.” (Qyburn)

We have one-eyed (like BR) Yna and Cersei's maegi telling fortunes by virtue of tasting blood. We get the impression that a person's future is stored in their blood. In Bran's last weirwood vision, he sees the white-haired woman sacrificing a man and can taste his blood. This man was sacrificed long ago, the tree soaked up his blood and Bran actually tastes the blood while he sees the vision. Considering the maegi's and Yna's practice, it does seem as though weirwoods also store past visions and memories in the blood sacrificed to them. It also explains why the weirwood paste Bran has to eat is probably mixed with blood. The wood / seeds of the trees probably contains the 'essence of seeing' required to awaken Bran's greenseeing gift. I imagine the blood in the paste contains past memories. I don't subscribe to the Jojen Paste theory - actually I think the blood in the paste is taken from the wizened, enthroned singers in the caves. They must be greenseers, past their time perhaps, and have been wedded to the trees for ages with each singer seeing different things in different places. This means each singer has recorded a vast amount of knowledge, which may be stored in the blood or extracted from the trees and into their blood. It's also probable that this knowledge can be passed on - via the blood in the paste.

My feeling is that the blind white fish serve as leeches (think of Roose Bolton's special white leeches) to extract the blood from the singers for the paste.

one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak.

The action sounds rather fish-like. Could the singer be trying to mime a fish opening and closing it's mouth while Bran passes by? Makes you wonder what purpose those gigantic black bats once served :devil:

That Ned or the Starks in general always carry out justice themselves, rather than leave it to an executioner, followed by 'cleaning' under the weirwood is also relevant in this context. In 'modern' times, traditional methods of sacrifice are no longer carried out but weirwoods must be fed blood for them to remain functional.

[LmL]

I like it. Nice work Evolett.

[Bran the Bringer]

I like significant chunks of your idea Evolett both here and on your wordpress. In fact there is only one thing I have trouble with and that's the Matrilineal/Patrilineal descent.

It seems to me, especially from what the WoIaF book had to say, that the Starks copulated with every non-human, magical sort of beings there were in Westeros.

 

The have a habit of bringing their enemy to the point of destruction and then offering them the choice of marriage into the Stark Family maybe it comes from the supposed first of the Brandons "Brandon of the Bloody Blade" as a Stark hero from very early in the Age of Heroes. ( Personal supposition BotBB may have been the 'Stark' at the swearing of the Pact)  Not everyone though.

The Red Kings (The Boltons) textually appear to be absent.

But there have been several i.e.:

1. Warg Kings of Sea Dragon Point and the western Wolfswood.

2. The Blackwoods were exiled from the Wolfswood. Definitely strong identifier for First Men genetics. I assume a different part of the Wolfswood than the Warg King although it is not specific. The text seems to descibe uniting all the North after a long series of wars just as the Andals arrive. The Red Kings (Boltons) were the last to fall.

3. The Marsh King of the Neck certainly has implications of Crannogmen and their Children-Mingled blood lines.

4. Possibly the Others through the Night's King and his surprisingly Pale Bride. Suposition as that could also refer to the Dustins known as the Barrow Kings in the Age of Heroes and whose keep puportedly sits above the King of the First Men's barrow tomb at least according to text. Still kinda creepy right either way.

 

So no big need to go outside of present Stark Genetics to have a need for Matrilineal/Patrilneal bifurcation in the theory. It works without it beyond which I don't see much evidence for Green Dreams coming from Tully relations in the text.

One possibility for it's presence maybe a few odd things like the final pre-Andal King of the Riverlands was a surprisingly crannogmen sounding name of Tristifer Mudd. Most of the crannogmen had very short descriptive marsh/swamp related names. They could have intermarried there and gotten it before then. I just don't see any evidence in the text.

 

Overall though awesome theory. You've given me much to contemplate.

[Evolett]

I like significant chunks of your idea Evolett both here and on your wordpress. In fact there is only one thing I have trouble with and that's the Matrilineal/Patrilineal descent.

It seems to me, especially from what the WoIaF book had to say, that the Starks copulated with every non-human, magical sort of beings there were in Westeros.

 

The have a habit of bringing their enemy to the point of destruction and then offering them the choice of marriage into the Stark Family maybe it comes from the supposed first of the Brandons "Brandon of the Bloody Blade" as a Stark hero from very early in the Age of Heroes. ( Personal supposition BotBB may have been the 'Stark' at the swearing of the Pact)  Not everyone though.

The Red Kings (The Boltons) textually appear to be absent.

But there have been several i.e.:

1. Warg Kings of Sea Dragon Point and the western Wolfswood.

2. The Blackwoods were exiled from the Wolfswood. Definitely strong identifier for First Men genetics. I assume a different part of the Wolfswood than the Warg King although it is not specific. The text seems to descibe uniting all the North after a long series of wars just as the Andals arrive. The Red Kings (Boltons) were the last to fall.

3. The Marsh King of the Neck certainly has implications of Crannogmen and their Children-Mingled blood lines.

4. Possibly the Others through the Night's King and his surprisingly Pale Bride. Suposition as that could also refer to the Dustins known as the Barrow Kings in the Age of Heroes and whose keep puportedly sits above the King of the First Men's barrow tomb at least according to text. Still kinda creepy right either way.

 

So no big need to go outside of present Stark Genetics to have a need for Matrilineal/Patrilneal bifurcation in the theory. It works without it beyond which I don't see much evidence for Green Dreams coming from Tully relations in the text.

One possibility for it's presence maybe a few odd things like the final pre-Andal King of the Riverlands was a surprisingly crannogmen sounding name of Tristifer Mudd. Most of the crannogmen had very short descriptive marsh/swamp related names. They could have intermarried there and gotten it before then. I just don't see any evidence in the text.

 

Overall though awesome theory. You've given me much to contemplate.

 

 

Glad you like the theory :)

 

I'm always willing to reconsider aspects of my theories, but matrilineal inheritance is one thing I won't touch. It's definitely the means by which rare abilities such as warging and 'dragonblood' are transmitted. That the Starks targeted people like the Warg KIng, wiping them out and taking their daughters is only one example of their need to keep the 'wolf-bloodline' going. Similarly, the 'blood of the dragon' was lost to the Targaryens for a couple of hundred years until a woman with the trait married into the family. This woman was Black Betha Blackwood, of first men descent and one of the rare carriers of the trait. Incest ensured that the trait passed down to Dany. 

 

Craster's daughter-wives are another example of this kind of inheritance. I'll just quote from my latest essay to explain this.

 

Craster’s daughter wives, on whom he fathers children, offer a classic example for passing on special traits via the matrilineal line; they carry the original traits of their mothers and by engaging in inbreeding, Craster keeps bloodline of the women intact. His wives pass on these traits to their sons, the trait itself being the key to creating Others from the boys.

 

Hints in the text are subtle but they are there. Take the Stark kids, the majority of whom inherit Catelyn's red hair and blue eyes. Eyes and hair in particular are a marker for certain hidden 'magical' traits and GRRM takes pains to describe them every time. Other hints are even more subtle, like Lord Borell of the Three Sisters, who referes to his 'daughter's daughter'. 

 

 

There is of course a possibility of 'breeding experiments' between humans and beasts / non-humans but apart from direct references to such practices and japes about 'fucking sheep', I don't see the Starks or anyone else engaging in bestiality. If traits inherent in beasts passed to man, I think its more likely that a form of spiritual 'genetic engineering' took place. I see what you mean about Brandon of the Bloody Blade but I tend to see him as a renegade Stark, rather than one who took a child of the forest to wife. The Crannogmen are also interesting. I'm not sure about them but aside from seemingly similar physical characteristics to the CotF, I think their magical abilities also stem from a long way back, to their FM blood.