Hobbit Movie discussion II - Here be Spoilers

[Jasta11]

I feel sorry for the orcs "bred for war" and getting killed by some refugees with shovels and pitchforks

Not only that, but all the armor they wear might as well not exist given how effortlessly it gets pierced even by shortswords.

[williamjm]

Also, is it canon that a 100 or so villagers, armed with spoons and shovels decided to war aganist an army orcs because of cash owned to them?

They don't really have much choice but to fight the orcs, it's not as if the orc hordes are going ignore the refugees huddling in the ruins of Dale if they win the battle. I seem to remember there was some scene with them finding weapons in Dale left behind when the town was abandoned, although I'm a bit doubtful weapons could have been in a useful condition after so long.

[The BlackBear]

They don't really have much choice but to fight the orcs, it's not as if the orc hordes are going ignore the refugees huddling in the ruins of Dale if they win the battle. I seem to remember there was some scene with them finding weapons in Dale left behind when the town was abandoned, although I'm a bit doubtful weapons could have been in a useful condition after so long.

As Dale an Erebor were so close back in the day, they're presumably dwarven make, so would be of very good quality. 171 (I think that's the difference) doesn't seem too extreme for the best weapons to survive.

[Corvinus85]

As Dale an Erebor were so close back in the day, they're presumably dwarven make, so would be of very good quality. 171 (I think that's the difference) doesn't seem too extreme for the best weapons to survive.

Swords, spears, and axes, I understand, but what about the bows?

[Spring Bass]

The annoying thing about the Orcs in the movie was that you could always pin-point the exact moment when the plot needed them to switch from being a dangerous threat to the Elvish army and Dain's host, and turn into cannon fodder to be slaughtered whole-sale with ease. Sometimes that was hilarious, like the whole "A hundred goblin mercenaries? We'll [the two of them] will handle them".

Thranduill getting a ton of his people killed over a stupid reason that's 100% his fault is some serious black humor when you consider the back-story of his father in the ancillary material. His father, Oropher, got himself and most of the Woodland Realm's military strength slaughtered during the Last Alliance conflict when he told the then-Noldori-High-King Elf Gilgalad to fuck off and charged ahead into battle with his host only to get surrounded and wiped out at Dagorland.

[Snowy89]

I'm just curious what happened to these babies.

http://youtu.be/Y6Fv5StfAxA?t=1m22s

I looked for them the whole battle through, but they never appeared.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SJB,

Thranduill getting a ton of his people killed over a stupid reason that's 100% his fault is some serious black humor when you consider the back-story of his father in the ancillary material. His father, Oropher, got himself and most of the Woodland Realm's military strength slaughtered during the Last Alliance conflict when he told the then-Noldori-High-King Elf Gilgalad to fuck off and charged ahead into battle with his host only to get surrounded and wiped out at Dagorland.

Where is that little nugget of information from?

[Bluetiger]

SJB,

Where is that little nugget of information from?

In "Unfinished tales" part2 "Second Age" chapter IV "History of Galadriel , Celeborn and Amroth" appendix B "Sindarin lords of Silvan Elves"

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'm going to have to look for that when I get home.

[Talleyrand]

Swords, spears, and axes, I understand, but what about the bows?

Eh... Dwarven string?

Thranduill getting a ton of his people killed over a stupid reason that's 100% his fault is some serious black humor when you consider the back-story of his father in the ancillary material. His father, Oropher, got himself and most of the Woodland Realm's military strength slaughtered during the Last Alliance conflict when he told the then-Noldori-High-King Elf Gilgalad to fuck off and charged ahead into battle with his host only to get surrounded and wiped out at Dagorland.

Especially annoying given how in the book Bard is the slightly more gung-ho one about fighting the Dwarves and its Thranduil who says that getting to a big battle over some jewels is something he'd rather not happen

[The BlackBear]

Swords, spears, and axes, I understand, but what about the bows?

Eh... Dwarven string?

Yeah... no answer there... but given that Bard can fire a bow, despite the piece of wood that actually provides the power being snapped, I suspect they don't really understand how bows work. I don't know why but it's always annoyed me when you see people wandering around/storing bows fully strung.

[A True Kaniggit]

Swords, spears, and axes, I understand, but what about the bows?

And speaking of bows, how is it that an elf army with that may bows doesn't just stand behind the dwarves and shoot the orcs? I'm pretty sure I actually saw them doing this in a preview, but I guess it got cut from the theatrical release. Talk about false advertising.

[Talleyrand]

And speaking of bows, how is it that an elf army with that may bows doesn't just stand behind the dwarves and shoot the orcs? I'm pretty sure I actually saw them doing this in a preview, but I guess it got cut from the theatrical release. Talk about false advertising.

Yeah the Elves jumping over the dwarves was quite a cool shot and I like it but it is screenwriter tactics to the extreme which is a shame because the baddies finally started using tactics and sense

[The BlackBear]

Yeah the Elves jumping over the dwarves was quite a cool shot and I like it but it is screenwriter tactics to the extreme which is a shame because the baddies finally started using tactics and sense

Well splitting your numerically superior army up to attack a non threatening town, having a second army that reaches the field late aren't the greatest ideas ever.

The elves doing the silly jump over the dwarves completely negated the formation the dwarves had set up.

[Bluetiger]

And almost every commander would send scouts to see if dwarves are fighting with men & elves , and attack when they are exhausted and numbered

[The BlackBear]

And almost every commander would send scouts to see if dwarves are fighting with men & elves , and attack when they are exhausted and numbered

I thought this, but with the (ridiculous) sand worms he wouldn't be able to get word to them quick enough.

[Corvinus85]

Another problem is how did Azog manage to get to that vantage point in the first place? Looking at where his army emerges from, he and his bodyguard are between their enemy and his forces. He had to get past Dale and an army of keen-eyed Elves to get there.

[Bluetiger]

Another problem is how did Azog manage to get to that vantage point in the first place? Looking at where his army emerges from, he and his bodyguard are between their enemy and his forces. He had to get past Dale and an army of keen-eyed Elves to get there.

I think that this film isn't for ones who think much ;)

There isn't much logic in this films.

And why Azog didn't use his strange were-worms[emoji34] in battle?

[The BlackBear]

He was definitely behind them when he made his 'they have forgotten what creatures from other series used to reside in this land.' speech.

[A True Kaniggit]

And talking about mistakes, I don't get how Thorin thought killing Azog would win the battle, considering they were fighting on a snow covered mountain where no one could see the battle. And the orcs were winning with only one army, the elves had abandoned the field, and the second army hadn't even been engaged yet.

I can only assume that all the orcs died phantom menace style after Azog went down.