Technology or lack thereof.

[Dale Sams]

I'm not really familiar with the histories, but technology advancement seems very slow. What little I've picked up gives the impression that they're running with the same technology that they had centuries ago.

Anyone given this much thought or maybe GRRM said something along the lines of everyone following a school of magic so there was very little thought given to technology?

[Warrewal Halfaxe]

It would seem that the more technology you make, the faster you create new technology, and Westeros isn't doing much of making.

Also, them long winters aren't helping much.

[Pox Americana]

Human progress is not a slow march forward, but rather analogous to the evolutionary biology concept of punctuated equilibrium. Long periods of stasis with short, intense bursts of progression. Some societies simply move faster than others, for various reasons. It's worth noting that the oldest cultures on our planet (Native Americans, Aborigenes) were still essentially in their Stone Ages when first contact was made with Europeans.

The obvious answer is that the technology progression is exactly as fast as the author desired for his story.

[EastTymor]

Rapid, continuous, widely spread technological advancement, as we've seen for the last two hundred years or so, is very unusual.

[Baltasar]

I think twoiaf introduced several concepts that help explain this topic, black oily stones being the most curious example.

[Dildo_Baggins]

Harsh winters. People are always preparing themselves to survive the upcoming winter which gives them little focus (and less financing) for technological advancements

[Dale Sams]

I gave some thought to 'evolution' pushing their technology. I couldn't decide if constantly being at war would push or hinder it. I suppose there's some kind of tipping point there. I also gave some thought to the long winters. The equatorial regions aren't snowed in are they?

Also re: Native Americans...maybe, sorta kinda. The Indians near the Plymouth Colony must have thought, "What is wrong with those people? They're all going to die." Also 90% of the population was wiped out by disease, so IMHO we don't have a complete picture. They also didn't have beasts of burden.

But they did build pyramids....somehow.

[Cookiesbane]

What actually happened in Planetos is loss of technology. Valyrian technology (valyrian steel, etc) is almost completely lost and the know how of creating constructs such as the Wall and Storm's Edge is attributed to legends which means that it is probably lost too.

[Sir Lee knot]

It seems as if technology moves much slower in Planetos then it does in the real world. In the real world it took roughly 6k years to get from the early bronze age to the modern era. In ASOIAF it seems to have taken them 10k+ years to get from the bronze age to mid-medieval ages.

One simple explanation could be that most of the mythology is wrong and the long night wasn't 8k years ago but actually more like 4-3k. And the Andals are like 2k. Although after reading TWOIAF it seems less likely that this is the case. We could try to blame it on the long winters that somehow halt human development but I'm more inclined to say that this is just a world building mistake rather then it actually having some legitimate reason.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

There were obviously previous civilizations more advanced in some way--if only magically and architecturally (oily stones, the Wall et al). But I think that it is anomalous that they haven't advanced more in 10k years, and I believe one of the reasons is seasonal--boring as that sounds. If a winter can last five years or an entire generation, and summers can last ten years, the boom and bust agricultural cycles alone can take their toll. And in one long winter an enormous amount of knowledge and practical know-how could be lost. When some pressure in the environment is so severe that it supplants all other priorities, it can make it very difficult to move forward instead of sticking to the tried and true.

That being said, great pressure (necessity) has very often led to invention, so it surprises me that they haven't developed further than the citadel sign watching for weather updates...although who knows what might be in everyone's tunnels under their keeps. There could be hydroponics in the Winterfell crypts to go along with the awesome heated plumbing in the walls. :)

As far as losing the tech knowledge from previous civilizations--one bad winter or long night could definitely have done it. Within 20 yrs of multiple civilizations in history you can see a dramatic change in the archaeological record as far as skills with pottery making and day to day living. All the knowledge was lost in less than one life span.

[Dale Sams]

I'm nitpicking here, but there's a slight disconnect between "Winter is Coming", the near Sci-Fi level of immobilization that is coming and the events of the books/show. Ten years of summer isn't long enough to create the level of complacency we've seen. If it were 50 years, then yes...I can see how "Winter" would almost be a myth. But as close as winter is when Jon Arryn died?

"My father figure has died, that's unfortunate. winter is coming."

"My son was crippled and nearly assassinated? That sucks, but there's going to be snow up to the rooftops in short order"

"My dad was beheaded? My bannermens castles are sieves and need repairing. Not to mention fighting a war right in the breadbasket of the kingdom is dummmmb'

My point is, in a world like GOT with 'Day After Tomorrow' winters...the wars and political schenanigans would have to take a backseat.

Edit: I suppose a series of mild winters could instill complacency though.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

I'm nitpicking here, but there's a slight disconnect between "Winter is Coming", the near Sci-Fi level of immobilization that is coming and the events of the books/show. Ten years of summer isn't long enough to create the level of complacency we've seen. If it were 50 years, then yes...I can see how "Winter" would almost be a myth. But as close as winter is when Jon Arryn died?

"My father figure has died, that's unfortunate. winter is coming."

"My son was crippled and nearly assassinated? That sucks, but there's going to be snow up to the rooftops in short order"

"My dad was beheaded? My bannermens castles are sieves and need repairing. Not to mention fighting a war right in the breadbasket of the kingdom is dummmmb'

My point is, in a world like GOT with 'Day After Tomorrow' winters...the wars and political schenanigans would have to take a backseat.

Edit: I suppose a series of mild winters could instill complacency though.

Yeah I think for them mild is not the same as mild to us :) They're obviously used to bizarre weather patterns. I think the Winter that scares everyone is the long one with the Others and ice spiders. Also I'm pretty sure the regular 3-5 year winters that happen in the south are nowhere near as bad as the ones in the north. Unless its the big one, then everyone suffers equally (kings freeze on their thrones etc...)

[the storm king returns]

I agree evolution in Westeros is a very slow progress indeed, I think this is a mistake by grrm

[Lord Lannister]

I always found this curious as well. The technological stagnation coupled with the fact they have the ravennet and the capacity to record data and store it efficiently given how much recorded history they have.

[Dale Sams]

Heh. Here's a dumb nitpick I just thought of: The kingdom is broke and they keep dragon skulls in the basement? No, they're not dragon eggs, but SOMEBODY would want one in their main hall I'd bet.

[Axell Redhand]

I think it's wrong to suggest the speed of technological advance is somehow a 'mistake' of the author. No author just 'oopsies' something like that. The history he created is clearly very deliberate. It is the way it is because that's how he wanted it to be. And it's pretty much the only absolutely constant theme of all popular fantasy. Tolkien describes a world with a roughly unchanged (to a greater or lesser degree) level of technology for literally tens of thousands of years. As does Forgotten Realms. Dragonlance's Krynn (or at least the primary continent - Ansalon) is perpetually medieval going back at least a few thousand years from their present time. This isn't some new silly mistake that GRRM made -- it's almost a fact of the genre. And there's lots of good reasons to do it that way.

And, luckily, there's a number of great ways to explain it. The evolution of technology in our world is a very intense, interwoven study. Just because it happened exactly such and such a way here does not mean in a different world, with dragons and magic and giants, it would happen the same way. Even in our own history - one minor change could affect a lot of advances.

[Sir Lee knot]

I agree evolution in Westeros is a very slow progress indeed, I think this is a mistake by grrm

Yeah, some things just seem insane to believe. Like the Stark Dynasty lasting 8,000 years. I think the longest dynasties in history were only about 300 at most.

I think it's wrong to suggest the speed of technological advance is somehow a 'mistake' of the author. No author just 'oopsies' something like that. The history he created is clearly very deliberate. It is the way it is because that's how he wanted it to be. And it's pretty much the only absolutely constant theme of all popular fantasy. Tolkien describes a world with a roughly unchanged (to a greater or lesser degree) level of technology for literally tens of thousands of years. As does Forgotten Realms. Dragonlance's Krynn (or at least the primary continent - Ansalon) is perpetually medieval going back at least a few thousand years from their present time. This isn't some new silly mistake that GRRM made -- it's almost a fact of the genre. And there's lots of good reasons to do it that way.

And, luckily, there's a number of great ways to explain it. The evolution of technology in our world is a very intense, interwoven study. Just because it happened exactly such and such a way here does not mean in a different world, with dragons and magic and giants, it would happen the same way. Even in our own history - one minor change could affect a lot of advances.

The idea for GRRM was probably originally supposed to make things sound grand like EIGHT THOUSAND YEARS and maybe he didn't think of the illogicality of it until much later. I mean there are plenty of excuses to make but that doesn't mean it was intended that way.

Also it doesn't matter if other fantasy universes do the same thing. It just makes them equally as flawed.

[A True Kaniggit]

I still think it would be hilarious if Westeros and Essos are like the Americas of OTL, and that on the other side of the world there is actually another continent like our Europe just before the Americas got colonized.

[Dorian Martell]

Technology does progress. Maester medical Knowledge is 19th century. Lenses are also quite advanced. Their Sailing technology is as advanced as wooden ships got. They lack explosives and have very little in the way of magnets. A major technology advance was explosives. Gunpowder first and eventually others. Without these early catalysts things like engines and guns never came to be. No powered pumps, no steam, no mechanical power except the water wheel. Without large energy resources to harness, there is nothing to power mechanical technological advances

[Cashmoneyviking]

Heh. Here's a dumb nitpick I just thought of: The kingdom is broke and they keep dragon skulls in the basement? No, they're not dragon eggs, but SOMEBODY would want one in their main hall I'd bet.

Dragon bone is an extremely rare and valuable crafting material (dragon bone bows and hilts) so even Robert would probably hesitate to abandon a stock of it.