Characters of ASOIAF and their historical counterparts

[Mithras]

In addition to what Apple said;

Shireen = Elizabeth of York

Jon = Henry Tudor, especially after he marries Shireen in the end. In ADwD, he was Caesar. If we include mythical heroes or deities, then we have Perseus, Mithras, Corn King etc.

Bran = his mythical inspiration is Bran the Blessed

Dany = She has some Moses in her.

Varys = Zhao Gao

[Eden-Mackenzie]

What?

Richard has some Stannis, but alot more that doesn't fit. Loving husband and father, extremely popular in the previously Lancastrian North, a noted horseman/warrior in spite of his handicap, drank a LOT of booze, and was considered Edward's unquestioning and beloved right hand man throughout his later life, even according to his enemies.

Just this alone; was in at least 2 places described as uncomplaining and grateful to His King/Brother during his life. Can you think of 2 words that describe Stannis less in general and re: Robert in particular?

With this description, you could make a good argument for the Ned being inspired by Richard as well. No one is an exact replica, but bits and pieces are apparent. I don't believe Stannis is Richard York Reborn, but as far as a historical counterpart, which is what was asked for, Richard for Stannis (and now Ned) definitely fits. If Littlefinger had stayed out of it, Stannis and Ned together could have been great for Westeros, at least until the Henry VII character (potentially Aegon...?) lands.

Renly is Clarence...how?

Clarence: alcoholic womanizer who no one liked, and who joined the RL version of the Lannisters/Cersei before switching back to his own, then back again, etc. 2nd son noted for spending much of his time complaining about not getting his due, and in particular his grudge against his king/brother for not sufficiently rewarding him and preferring others.

Renly: monogamous homosexual noted for his disciplined appetites and extreme popularity who stayed an eternal enemy to the Lannisters, and who never (that I recall) complains much about anything.

Clarence was given a trial and executed for using magic/witchcraft in pursuit of his brother Edward's death. Renly was killed by magic/witchcraft by his brother Stannis.

Young Edward IV is Robb, older version is Robert. Richard III is a bit Stannis, a bit Tytion, a bit Ned, even a bit Renly. Clarence is also a bit Tyrion, a bit more Stannis but no one all that much.

Edit: true of all WotR paralleled but perhaps most so for Clarence and Richard, it's really hard to do without an ASOIAF Richard Neville. He was fundamental to Richard's upbringing and Clarence's later life. He is the ASOIAF character I most wish we had some kind of comp. to, but there's just no one. Renly probably comes closest, but mainly just for his personality, popularity, attempts to sever the Royal marriage and willingness to gamble it all on himself and raise a formidable force seemingly out of thin air.

As far as Richard Neville, Jon Arryn could be inspired by early Warwick (prior to the falling out with Edward), with Mace Tyrell taking the roll after, which then lends credence to Renly being a counterpart to George, emphasis on counterpart. After Renly's death (courtesy of the older brother he betrayed), Mace switches sides back to Joffrey, paralleling Warwick going back to Henry VI after George's death. There are also aspects of Warwick in both Hoster Tully and Tywin Lannister.

Again, no one is a perfect replica; ASOIAF is not a fanfic recreation of the WotR, but the parallels are there. Although, if the next book includes Aegon getting betrothed to Myrcella, I may change my mind regarding the fanfic...

...

Wrote much longer than intended; nothing I mentioned isn't well covered material so it was probably a waste of time, but this is a bit of a pet issue for me.

It's never a waste of time defending Richard.

[Pikachu101]

This kind of thinking is something that I expect from someone like Phillipa Gregory.

Please can we not mention that idiot

Again, no one is a perfect replica; ASOIAF is not a fanfic recreation of the WotR, but the parallels are there.

I think people forget this, George was inspired by historical figures but that doesn't mean they're 100% alike. Sansa tends to be paralleled a lot to Elizabeth I and I've seen some threads compare the Lannisters to the Borgias family; but that doesn't mean they're exact carbon copies.

Although, if the next book includes Aegon getting betrothed to Myrcella, I may change my mind regarding the fanfic...

I think Sansa's the Elizabeth of York counterpart, but we'll just have to wait and see :dunno:

[Blaidd Gwyn]

I did see an article that the idea for the wall whilst on a tour of Hadrian's wall .

the Dornish history is based on the ancient Britons of Cymru (Wales).

my own opinion is the vale fortress the Eyri , is named after the welsh words for Snowdonia/eagle (eryri/Snowdoia eryr/eagle)

[Batbob45]

Like Jefferson, Stannis was not polltically correct, had flaws, and were play by the same actor

[Pikachu101]

Ironborn are very similar to the Vikings

Also the Wildlings = the Scottish perhaps

[Knight Of Winter]

Ironborn are very similar to the Vikings

Ironborn have taken all the bad qualities of the Vikings while keeping none of the good ones.

[Ser Strongbored]

I always thought King Robert's character was based loosely on Henry VIII.

In youth, both were considered handsome; charismatic and powerful warriors. They were natural leaders representing fairly young houses.

As they got older, they both partied too hard and turned in to fat messes.

[Lointain]

Quirites and "gentes" of the Seven Kingdoms:

Stannis Baratheon -> Marcus Porcius Cato Priscus.

Eddard Stark -> Caius Marius

Tywin Lannister -> Caius Iulius Caesar Octavianus Augustus

Robert Baratheon -> Marcus Claudius Marcellus

Robb Stark -> Cnaeus Pompeius Magnus

Catelyn Tully -> Cornelia Scipionis Africana

Mace Tyrell -> Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator

Daenerys Targaryen -> Livia Drusilla

Jon Arryn -> Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus

Jaime Lannister -> Titus Manlius Torquatus

Jon Snow -> Marcus Livius Drusus

Aegon I Targaryen -> Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus

Rhaegar Targaryen -> Marcus Iunius Brutus

Cersei Lannister -> Valeria Messalina

Tyrion Lannister -> Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus

Roose Bolton -> Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Joffrey Baratheon -> Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus

Sansa Stark -> Iulia Caesaris

Mance Rayder -> Quintus Sertorius

House Stark -> Fabii

House Arryn -> Aemilii

House Tully - Valerii

House Greyjoy -> Manlii

House Lannister -> Cornelii

House Baratheon -> Claudii

House Tyrell -> Pompeii

House Martell -> Licinii

[Keyser94]

Is the same Phillipa Gregory that believes that Margaret Beaufort is the murder of the princes in the tower, that believes that Elizabeth I is a psycopath and Anne Boleyn really was guilty of the crimes that she was accussed off. Even that she is pro Richard III, only someone like her would accuse Ricard III of being an usurper when Henry VII Tudor had barely any royal blood in him, hell, Elizabeth of York have much more royal blood in her and her bloodline than Henry VII; he come from a bastard line, and he only get the throne by the right of conquest.

[Pikachu101]

Is the same Phillipa Gregory that believes that Margaret Beaufort is the murder of the princes in the tower, that believes that Elizabeth I is a psycopath and Anne Boleyn really was guilty of the crimes that she was accussed off.

She got an E in A-level History and didn't even study the subject at university. Why she's heralded as this amazing historian is beyond me <_<

Henry VII Tudor had barely any royal blood in him,

Not true, on his mother's side he was the great-great-great grandson of Edward III. He was also the last Lancastrian heir after Henry VI's death.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Jane Foole jester of Mary I and Jeyne Poole. Not much in common but as Reek would say Jane Foole rhymes with Jeyne Poole

[Grail King]

Baratheons: Yorks

Targaryens: Lancaster

Tyrells: Nevilles

Lannisters: Wydevilles

Aerys: Henry VI

Robert: Edward IV

Cersei: Elizabeth Wydeville and some Margaret of Anjou

Jaime and Tyrion: Anthony Wydeville

Stannis: Richard III

Renly: George, Duke of Clarence

Joffrey: Edward V and some Edward of Westminster

Mace and some Tywin: Warwick the Kingmaker

Margaery: Anne and Isabel Neville

Rhaenyra: Matilda

Aegon II: Stephen

Aegon IV: Henry VIII

Naerys: Katherine of Aragon

Aegon III: Henry II

Aegon V: Edward III (the common ancestor of the warring cousins)

Aegon: Perkin Warbeck/Henry VII combination

JonCon: Jasper Tudor

Lyanna: Some Margaret Beaufort, if she had died

Daeron I: Richard the Lionheart

Red Keep: White Tower

Narrow Sea: English Channel

Aegon I: William the Conqueror

Valyria: Rome

Free Cities: the merchant city-states of the Low Countries and Italy

Braavos: Venice (the sealord is the doge)

AM- except for Lyanna you don't see the Starks comparable to any historical family?

I'm not astute enough to say myself.

[Keyser94]

Pikachu101 - After that the Richard III bones were find a parking lot, the historian did a revision of about his part in the War of the Roses, mostly already agree in not to trust in the Tudor propaganda, even that still are questions like who murder the princes in the towers, now at then, most of the Historian agree that Richard wasnt that bad, and was one of the last kings in going to war with his troops.

Now Richard III had become a historical character out of history, mostly because Shakespeare and his play Richard III about intrigue and betrayal, and most people associate him with that, and not the real historical figure, Henry VII did the same thing that Henry IV did after he take the throne by the right of conquest, funny enough by killing someone called Richard, they try to undermine their adversaries and say that they were the legitimate king, even that their bloodline was questionable.

The same thing happen with Dracula, or Vlad Tepes, most people associate him with the book of Bram Stoker and not the real historical figure.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Pikachu101 - After that the Richard III bones were find a parking lot, the historian did a revision of about his part in the War of the Roses, mostly already agree in not to trust in the Tudor propaganda, even that still are questions like who murder the princes in the towers, now at then, most of the Historian agree that Richard wasnt that bad, and was one of the last kings in going to war with his troops.

Now Richard III had become a historical character out of history, mostly because Shakespeare and his play Richard III about intrigue and betrayal, and most people associate him with that, and not the real historical figure, Henry VII did the same thing that Henry IV did after he take the throne by the right of conquest, funny enough by killing someone called Richard, they try to undermine their adversaries and say that they were the legitimate king, even that their bloodline was questionable.

The same thing happen with Dracula, or Vlad Tepes, most people associate him with the book of Bram Stoker and not the real historical figure.

Thanks i have tried saying the same. Medieval historians and playwrights(you know who you are bill)are much like the maesters in asoiaf. But don`t tell any 32 year old history profs i say so

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I always thought King Robert's character was based loosely on Henry VIII.

In youth, both were considered handsome; charismatic and powerful warriors. They were natural leaders representing fairly young houses.

As they got older, they both partied too hard and turned in to fat messes.

Edward IV was pretty much the exact same way, just less famous.

There's also some of Henry VIII in Maegor, namely the multiple wives and executed wives and the brutal religious conflicts.

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Before any `straswberry season` historians burn anyones opinion remember that when writing the books GRRM would only `loosely base` any characters otherwise the ASOIAF would be a historical essay

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

AM- except for Lyanna you don't see the Starks comparable to any historical family?

I'm not astute enough to say myself.

I don't actually and that fascinates me. Ned is sort of like a better-behaved William Hastings (the real Hastings whored around with Edward IV). Hastings got involved in the succession dispute and ended up being summarily beheaded at the Tower of London.

Jon's birth is also quite similar to Henry VII's. Henry's mother was a young teenager when she gave birth, just like Lyanna. She gave birth in an isolated part of Wales, just like how Lyanna gave birth in Dorne. Henry's father died before he was born, just like Rhaegar died before Jon's birth. And like Henry, Jon grew up without his mother (Margaret lived but rarely saw her son when he was growing up) and under the protection of his uncle. Aegon's adventures with JonCon mirror Henry's later life better, but it's the combination of Henry and Perkin Warbeck that makes Aegon's case so cool: There are elements of both the victor and the fraud, so it blurs the lines and makes it harder to tell which is which. And if Aegon is actually a Blackfyre, that would make them analogous to the Beauforts: a line of legitimized bastards led now by a female-line scion.

[RezBarbie24]

Joan of Arc was not a powerful fighter, she was an incredibly charismatic young woman of peasant origin that convinced nobles that she was the messenger of god. Brienne is a noble, extremely shy and uncharismatic but a physical powerhouse.

So what they have in common? They are women and they have swords. Pretty much it.

Hey now you can't forget about them both having short hair!!!

[kieran wilkie]

finally a topic where i can say it and its almost partially relevant...

Richard III= Toppest of Dons, #fuckthetudors

and i always think about this stuff

i think york= stark, though Edward the fourth is definitely Robert B

I also assumed lancaster= lannister, though upon seeing the Neville reference that makes a lot of sense, though i think they do good at remaining as the lancaster step in.

Also for anyone interested there's a book written kind of like asoiaf but about the actual wars of the roses, the first book is called stormbird and its by Conn Igguilden. A few made up characters and some scenes are just guess work but apparently its quite accurate (i say apparently because i'm only part way through it myself)