Brienne of Tarth is a Hermaphrodite?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Cersei doesn't want to be a man. She's just bitter that she wasn't born a man.

[stangles]

There have been others in the story that were. Could brienne also be? She almost says, at one point, that's she's her fathers son, but stops herself.

I think I have heard just about everything now on this forum!

[sapphire_lion]

...There is some value to this question, actually. While we're not told that Brienne has external male genitalia (which I'm sure Jaime would have noticed and commented on), her general build and apparent lack of secondary female sex characteristics (higher-pitched voice, breasts, et cetera) might point toward a intergendered condition such as 5-alpha-reductase deficiency, in which the child is karyotypically male (XY chromosomes) but develops physically as a female until puberty, when testosterone production ramps up and male secondary characteristics begin to appear. I'm not saying I think this must be the case with Brienne, but it's a possibility that would explain some things about her appearance and behavior.

GRRM has stated that Brienne is female.

Q: I'll admit that I am fond of her character and identify with her as a woman. Theories such as "she really has XXY chromosomes" are something I would like to ask about. Could you state that she is female?

A:She is female.

This is the Middle Ages. They don't know about DNA. Their knowledge of genetics revolves around theories about a person's "blood."

If I start worrying about Brienne's chromosomes, the next step is trying to figure out the aerodynamic properties of dragons, and then the whole thing falls apart. Brienne is a huge, homely woman, a freak of nature by the standards of her own world and times... they can't explain her, and neither should I.

source: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Brienne_of_Tarth

Also, Brienne has a feminine voice.

"Do that and answer to the throne." Her voice sounded high and girlish, when she wanted to sound fearless.

-AFFC

[sapphire_lion]

Transgender is what I've imagined

I don't think so. Brienne self-identifies as female and corrects people when they mistake her for a man. Trans men want to be identified as male.

It was not the first time Brienne had been mistaken for a man. She pulled off her greathelm, letting her hair spill free.

-AFFC

She was loosening the saddle when a boy came out the stable door, and said, "Let me do that, ser."

"I am no ser," she told him, "but you may take the horse. See that she is fed and brushed and watered."

The boy reddened. "Beg pardons, m'lady. I thought . . ."

"It is a common mistake."

-AFFC

Brother Narbert drew up short. "A woman."

"Yes, brother." Brienne unpinned her hair and shook it out. "Do you have no women here?"

-AFFC

Brienne liked how Renly treated her as if she were as feminine and pretty as other girls. What kind of tans man wants to be treated like a proper maid? That would probably be a total nightmare for them.

And Renly Baratheon had shown her every courtesy, as if she were a proper maid, and pretty. He even danced with her, and in his arms she'd felt graceful, and her feet had floated across the floor. Later others begged a dance of her, because of his example. From that day forth, she wanted only to be close to Lord Renly, to serve him and protect him.

-AFFC

Brienne used to do feminine things like dancing. She cried when she realized she wasn't a pretty girl and that everyone who said so was lying to her.

When I was a little girl I believed that all men were as noble as my father. Even the men who told her what a pretty girl she was, how tall and bright and clever, how graceful when she danced. It was Septa Roelle who had lifted the scales from her eyes. "They only say those things to win your lord father's favor," the woman had said. "You'll find truth in your looking glass, not on the tongues of men." It was a harsh lesson, one that left her weeping...

-AFFC

Brienne is a little sad that so far she's missed out on motherhood. She does regret not taking on some feminine roles.

Brienne had been betrothed at seven, to a boy three years her senior, Lord Caron's younger son, a shy boy with a mole above his lip. They had only met the once, on the occasion of their betrothal. Two years later he was dead, carried off by the same chill that took Lord and Lady Caron and their daughters. Had he lived, they would have been wed within a year of her first flowering, and her whole life would have been different. She would not be here now, dressed in man's mail and carrying a sword, hunting for a dead woman's child. More like she'd be at Nightsong, swaddling a child of her own and nursing another. It was not a new thought for Brienne. It always made her feel a little sad, but a little relieved as well.

-AFFC

I wouldn't even say Brienne is transgendered. She's never given any hint of hating her breasts. She doesn't really spend any time thinking 'I wish I were male', in fact, Cersei dwells more on the whole 'I should have been a boy' thing than Brienne does. I think she's just unusual for her world, she's a female who is an excellent fighter, who prefers male clothing, and who wants to be taken seriously in spite of her gender.

Brienne actually lists being flat chested as one of the things she does not need to be reminded about. Trans men go through hormone therapy and plastic surgery to be flat chested.

Had Brienne been a man, she would have been called big; for a woman, she was huge. Freakish was the word she had heard all her life. She was broad in the shoulder and broader in the hips. Her legs were long, her arms thick. Her chest was more muscle than bosom. Her hands were big, her feet enormous. And she was ugly besides, with a freckled, horsey face and teeth that seemed almost too big for her mouth. She did not need to be reminded of any of that.

-AFFC

I don't believe Brienne is trans. Nothing in the text indicates that Brienne is happy about having a masculine body-type. It's certainly not something she chose. She lists being flat-chested and having other masculine features along with having a bad hair day and acne. These are all traits she finds unattractive about herself.

She dreaded his arrival. Her bosom was too small, her hands and feet too big. Her hair kept sticking up, and there was a pimple nestled in the fold beside her nose.

-AFFC

[sapphire_lion]

She almost says, at one point, that's she's her fathers son, but stops herself.

We don't know if she was about to say son. That's only what stupid Jaime thought and he was hilariously wrong about all his initial assessments of Brienne. Remember he originally thought she was a peasant wench who couldn't really fight.

Here is the scene. Note that Jaime is asking Brienne if she has siblings.

"Do you have any siblings, my lady?" he asked.

Brienne squinted at him suspiciously. "No. I was my father's only s - child."

Jaime chuckled. "Son, you meant to say. Does he think of you as a son? You make a queer sort of daughter, to be sure."

Wordless, she turned away from him, her knuckles tight on her sword hilt.

-ASOS

I think she was about to say only surviving child. But then she stopped because she didn't want to give such personal information to this annoying jerk.

[Lady Meliora]

GRRM has stated that Brienne is female.

Also, Brienne has a feminine voice.

I mean, if GRRM says she's a woman, I'm not going to question it. He would know better than I, so. I always assumed she was just unfortunately put together.

[Prince of the North]

Brienne doesn't need unusual chromosomes or male genitalia to explain her size and strength. I'm quite sure Martin has done more than enough to explain it to us simply by having her be a direct descendant of Ser Duncan the Tall ;)

[hales]

I definitely don't think so, for one, yes, Jaime would have mentioned it. And she almost calls herself her fathers son because she's so used to being mistaken for a man at first glance, being called Ser all the time by Podrick, etc.. She's just masculine is all. In a lot of ways she is more of a son than a daughter. :dunno:

[sapphire_lion]

I definitely don't think so, for one, yes, Jaime would have mentioned it. And she almost calls herself her fathers son because she's so used to being mistaken for a man at first glance, being called Ser all the time by Podrick, etc.. She's just masculine is all. In a lot of ways she is more of a son than a daughter. :dunno:

We don't know that she was going to say son. That was Jaime's assumption. She could have just as likely said surviving child. She never thinks of herself as a son in her POVs. Brienne does not think she is fit to be a son or daughter.

[Justin Amey]

We don't know that she was going to say son. That was Jaime's assumption. She could have just as likely said surviving child. She never thinks of herself as a son in her POVs. Brienne does not think she is fit to be a son or daughter.

Brienne stood up in front of Jamie exposing herself to him. I'm pretty if she had a dick, that thought would been in his mind somewhere during that conversation

[John Suburbs]

Agree. Arya also dresses as a boy and wants to be a fighter. It may be rare in Westeros but it does happen.

Perhaps Brienne is not a hermaphrodite since she has already gone through puberty, but Arya has not...

[King Tyrion I]

Perhaps Brienne is not a hermaphrodite since she has already gone through puberty, but Arya has not...

I'm currently re-reading ACoK. And there's this scene where even Hot Pie finds out that Arry is in fact a girl. And why would Martin bother with all those little scenes where she wonders what would happen if they (Gendry, Lommy and Hot Pie) if they found out that she's a girl?

Arya is a girl. Not a hermaphrodite.

[John Suburbs]

I'm currently re-reading ACoK. And there's this scene where even Hot Pie finds out that Arry is in fact a girl. And why would Martin bother with all those little scenes where she wonders what would happen if they (Gendry, Lommy and Hot Pie) if they found out that she's a girl?

Arya is a girl. Not a hermaphrodite.

I think so too, but as someone noted above, every once in a while a boy is born with parts so malformed that he looks like a girl, even pees like a girl. So they themselves grow up thinking they are a girl even as they rebel against all the gender-defined things that girls are supposed to do (sewing and dancing as opposed to swords and fighting). It isn't until puberty that the male genitalia starts to emerge. So if Brienne were in fact a male or a herm, it would be obvious by now. But Arya is just on the cusp of puberty, so if there is to be a plot twist on this order it will happen very soon.

But I doubt this is the case and would be rather disappointed if GRRM were to stoop to this level of tawdriness.

[Vee Stark]

Close this thread now!

[Little Bird of Varys]

This topic always raises my humour. :rofl:

[Logicsbane]

Sounds to me that in this world every Tom-Boy is a Hermaphrodite?

Jesus, people.....it's not characters in this medieval age suggesting this, it's readers in the 21st Century. What's next? Serena Williams is a Hermaphrodite?

[JohnathanSnew]

This is a dumb thread.

[The Great Cornholio!]

This is a dumb thread.

+10.

[Woman of War]

I guess Oberyn was a hermaphrodite since he liked interesting clothes........

Really, even the topic is annoying. Can't people allow a woman to be just better than men?

Hope Solo is a great goalie. She may though be less good (who knows) than Manuel Neuer. And yet she is probably a better goalie than 99,999% of all male goalies.
So Brienne could possibly be beaten by one or the other man but she is still a better fighter than....

Oh yes, there must be something off with a woman who is great at physical activity.......real woman are decorative....

[JohnathanSnew]

I guess Oberyn was a hermaphrodite since he liked interesting clothes........

Really, even the topic is annoying. Can't people allow a woman to be just better than men?

Hope Solo is a great goalie. She may though be less good (who knows) than Manuel Neuer. And yet she is probably a better goalie than 99,999% of all male goalies.
So Brienne could possibly be beaten by one or the other man but she is still a better fighter than....

Oh yes, there must be something off with a woman who is great at physical activity.......real woman are decorative....

You should've seen the sexist things people were saying in a recent Brienne thread over in the GoT TV forum. More than one person said Brienne was unrealistic as a woman because "real women could never be that tall or strong", as if Gwendoline Christie was CGI or something.
It's pretty gross how some people react to Brienne for not fitting into their own expectations of what a female character should be.