House Obama Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Firstly, those were excellent posts by you, so bravo. However, I have to disagree with it for several reasons. Tywin did, in fact, keep the realm stable while Aerys fell into madness. Do you truly think the realm would’ve remained stable if Tywin wasn’t hand? The answer is no. Also, Tywin resigned because it was the safest thing to do, and Aerys was subtlety threatening him. Aerys even bragged how he wanted to have sex with his wife, while Tywin was present. Tywin was a faithful supporter of Aerys, but his king insulted him by saying that he was just a servant and nothing more. Furthermore, Tywin is not foolish like Robb. Robb jeopardized the lives of many in his army because his pride and honor were wounded when Rickard killed those Lannister. After he beheaded Rickard, Robb basically doomed the North. Also, Robb blew a political marriage that benefitted his chances to win the war by marrying a lord of a struggling house. And you forgot to mention that Cersei was extremely happy when she married Robert, so plus 1 for Tywin… he is not responsible for their failed marriage, but many readers blame him nonetheless. Also, please do not tell that you would not be mad if your son gave up his claims to inherit your lands and titles. Jaime could’ve gotten a good match with a high lord, and advance their family. Tywin shouldn’t be penalized for thinking about the future. Moreover, can we blame Tywin that Cersei and Jaime has/had a relationship with one another? He was the Hand of the King. Readers judge him, but not Ned Stark… hmmm. Tywin also had no idea that Joffrey was a product born from incest too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Tywin Lannister is a totalitarian, which means that he rule for everyone’s well-being, not his own. That's the funniest thing I've read on this board in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Because he is just a normal guy sent on a nearly-suicide mission, and he still tries to accomplish by any means, just because he doesn't want to dissapoint his father. I admire his courage and his "normality" (pretty sure I have just invented this word, english is not my first language). I want to go back to Yronwood and kiss both of your sisters, marry Gwyneth Yronwood, watch her flower into beauty, have a child by her. I want to ride in tourneys, hawk and hunt, visitmy mother in Norvos, read some of those books my father sends me. I want Cletus and Will and Maester Kedry to be alive again. These thoughts of him are so simple for the Prince of Dorne. He doesn't want power or glory. He is a good lad. But I am under the impression that for lot of the reader he is just a dumbass who wanted to tame a dragon. I agree one hundred per cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Brandon Ice Eyes Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 That's the funniest thing I've read on this board in months.Oh, I forgot to mention that. It's on par with D&D's definition of an utilitarian or a "lawful neutral" character used to describe the same asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojen Weed Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Everyone has excuses, Ramsay's father bullied him, he was the product of rape, the first Reek probably poisoned his mind, Gregor had terrible headaches, see they are just as misunderstood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elia Sand Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 None except Theon. You've put them on a list, and the only thing that they have in common is that they hurt the Starks in some way or another.Are the Starks universally considered the main characters? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grandmaster Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Robb broke a promise to Walder that could not be compensated for in any whatsoever, not with gold, or further empty promises that the king would not keep. That was inexcusable. Especially as Walder made a very gutsy move, in light of his usual non-committal ways, in throwing in his lot to the a king who was almost a boy, up against an experienced battle commander known with a merciless and wrathful reputation (yes, I don’t agree with Tywin being misunderstood!). The Freys were sort of backed into a corner by events. Robb was marching to retake Winterfell, and with Riverrun and the riverlands all but in ruins, and Robb’s forces gone, the Twins would be entirely at the mercy of the Lannister host. And as Frey is very fond of the Rains of Castamere, I think he could guess what fate might possibly await him. It would take months to retake the North, by which time the Lannisters could be on the Twins. If Walder had faith in Robb, then he would have held out until Robb returned to relieve him. But what reason did Walder have in thinking Robb would return back at all? With all that being with families and stocking up for winter and all. How could he put his faith in a king who he knew disliked the Freys and had no particular ties to? This was a king who had proven to be untrustworthy and had broken his promise to the Twins. And I they would have simply refused to let Robb across the Crossing because he broke a vow, Robb would have laid siege to the Twins. He was that desperate to get back to Winterfell, no matter the further the cost to his honor, he would have likely done it. And why wouldn’t the Freys think Robb would attack the Twins, if they denied him, when they are dealing with a man who is untrustworthy and has proved he cannot keep his word? And if they decided on revenge, it was in for a penny, in for a pound. Yes, it was extreme to slaughter all of Robb’s men, but what choice did Frey have? It was either exterminate the Northmen, or take no action at all. If they only killed Robb, or took Robb hostage, or denied Robb crossing, then his bannermen would besiege the Twins, and it would all end very badly for the Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 So basically a whole thread of people stating their opinions as facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And I they would have simply refused to let Robb across the Crossing because he broke a vow, Robb would have laid siege to the Twins. He was that desperate to get back to Winterfell, no matter the further the cost to his honor, he would have likely done it. And why wouldn’t the Freys think Robb would attack the Twins, if they denied him, when they are dealing with a man who is untrustworthy and has proved he cannot keep his word? King in the North's Log. Star date xxx-xx. Siege of the Twins, fifth week. The Freys still didn't notice. Or they pretend, the wankers. Uncle Edmure tells me it would be a honorable thing to do to tell Lord Walder he's actually under siege, and the things as they are are just awkward for everyone. He has a point. Uncle Blackfish keeps telling it's all bullshit, if we have soldiers only on one side of the river. No wonder the Freys didn't notice or don't care. He has a point. Mum keeps telling me, that if I just want to cross the Trident, there's perfectly fine Ruby Ford, and I'm a fucking moron. She has a point. I get no respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Obama Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 That's the funniest thing I've read on this board in months.Well he is...Everyone has excuses, Ramsay's father bullied him, he was the product of rape, the first Reek probably poisoned his mind, Gregor had terrible headaches, see they are just as misunderstood!No, Ramsey is just a psychopath, and Gregor is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Drew Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Concerning Tywin and advancing his family, The Lannisters are already the most powerful family in Westeros so... how can he advance his family further?I think a better phrase would be maintaining their status. Overall, I agree that Theon is misunderstood, on the fence with Tywin, and the others absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr's Little Finger Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I don't think that Pycelle is misunderstood. The other 4 characters that the OP mentioned are misunderstood to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monctonvike Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I get what you are saying I don't agree with everything by any means, kudos to putting it out there my top 5 would be in no particular order Mel- who what when where why is blurred with her but I speak to this on my next person as well Varys- He seems to possibly have multiple end games- plus GRRM states that he and Mel are his most misunderstood characters Stannis- I think people just see him at face value, sometimes, people love or hate him for reasons above or beyond who or what he is Theon- I agree with Mance- I think he knows a little more than he has said so far, and with his intrests in the crypts and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 In between like it or not and these are the top 5 misunderstood characters the op should put IMO cos you can`t be wrong with an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 all i got are 2Shitmouth-He just in the wrong crowdVarys-people say how he evil but he never arranged any of his birds to marry Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Marzo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Illyn Payne - c'mon, he is a guy who got his tongue cut out for saying the truth for the wrong ears to hear, then got a job that is not very well-seen, and he is just such a lonely guy. I kinda feel bad for him. Yeah, he cut Ned's head but... the king demanded. What was he supposed to do? Mirri Maz Duur Theon Melisandre - her chapters really made me realize she is not the evil bitch I previously imagined LS - if I came bad from the dead after seing my son and friends get murdered in front of me from someone who was supposedly an ally, I would want revenge as well. Be honest, who wouldn't?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Tywin gets way, way to much flak I agree. But being the primary antagonist for House Stark does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran wilkie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Imagine lending someone £5 (sorry if you're not from England change it to $ if you want XD) for lunch on the promise that you get repaid tomorrow once they have their own money. Then the next day comes round and instead of them giving you back your money they spit in your face. Yeah, that's what Robb does to Walder. I don't dislike Robb (even if the following rant might seem otherwise) but he completely ignored his promises and oaths (something meant to be important to his family) and marries some girl. Imagine you were a lord and your king promised to marry your daughter, then marries some random girl. That is an insult. And though are modern minds may not see it that way, to that era that isn't just a insult. That's a spit, slap & kick in the teeth. That's one of the big no no's. Its not just a case of not getting your promise. You've been straight up humiliated in front of every other noble family in the kingdom. SO. I don't think Walders a good guy and what he does is (to some people) disgusting & disgraceful. But if I was in his shoes and someone had insulted me so rudely (intentional or otherwise) then I think I'd manage to find some worse things to deliver unto them. As for Theon I don't even see him as a character that needs to be misunderstood. IMO he's a perfect grey protagonist. He gets taken from his family at a young age as a captive under the threat of death should his father ever do something wrong. Not only that but his captors helped kill his siblings before he was taken away. He is reminded probably on more on one occasion that he is a prisoner and under threat of death. On top of this he then returns home to find that his family hates him for being tainted by his captors. So the family he dreamed of returning to hates him, the family that was his captors used, (and this I will admit is a large simplification), to threaten him with death or at least remind him they could. Also, to put this as clearly as possible. Imagine someone killing your brothers (or sisters if thats what you have) and likely taking a sum of money from your father and beating him in place, before kidnapping you and forcing you to live with them, threatening to kill you if your father then tries anything. So you're living with people who killed or are associated with the killers of your brothers. You may get on with their children but they are cold to you, and though you live comfortably you have the stress of always being at risk of death if your father ever steps out of line. Theon. As far as I'm concerned he's fine. As for killing those kids, well, would anyone be moaning so much if they were a couple of men he'd killed instead.. probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Imagine lending someone £5 (sorry if you're not from England change it to $ if you want XD) for lunch on the promise that you get repaid tomorrow once they have their own money. Then the next day comes round and instead of them giving you back your money they spit in your face. Yeah, that's what Robb does to Walder. Yes, I would be pissed if that were me. But I wouldn't have killed 3500 people in the cafeteria in retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Obama Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Concerning Tywin and advancing his family, The Lannisters are already the most powerful family in Westeros so... how can he advance his family further?I think a better phrase would be maintaining their status. Overall, I agree that Theon is misunderstood, on the fence with Tywin, and the others absolutely not.Now they are, but I am highly certain that the Baratheon was the most powerful house in Westeros before TWOFK. Ned, Arryn, Tully, Stannis, and Renly all backed him. Also, Dorne hate the Lannister.Tywin gets way, way to much flak I agree. But being the primary antagonist for House Stark does that.I agree, readers hate him mostly because the Starks hate the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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