Vampires---can they ever be "good"

[Krafus]

As mentat said, vampires can be seen as cool, seductive, powerful, dark and brooding - perfect for insecure people who wish they were like that, particularly, IMO, angsty "oh, woe be me, nobody understands me" teens.

All other things being equal, I prefer evil vampires, since it's hard to believe that night-going creatures who feed on human blood for centuries could maintain respect for human life.

Ultimately, however, it depends on how the story and characters are presented. I loved Angel and Spike, and will hate Fox forever for cancelling Angel (and not doing a follow-up with Spike).

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

They are as evil as men are good. And as long as they're cool, they benefit from the good guys plot-shield anyway.

Now the question is... what about witches?

interesting. Being a witch I'd have to insist that witches can be good or evil....we are alive and have souls and such, so we can choose. witch does not equal satan worshipper

[Lord Melkor]

You are nothing more than racists! I fought that we, fantasy fans, constitute a group of open-minded individuals. It seems I was terribly wrong.

You just fear what you do not understand. Do you think vampires are limited to drinking human blood, or that they always have to drink in order to feed? My girlfriend is a vampire herself, and she hasn`t killed anyone since I started to date her. It is very difficult for us, and my family rejects her, but our love shall conquer the opposition. I allow her to drink my blood because I trust her, and love her.

It is because of such ignorant anti-vampire racists as you that my gilfriend still has to hide from the hunters. Really, humanity is extremally sellfish, raping the entire planet yet hating other sentient species because of feeding habits.

[Galactus]

Again, I'd hesitate to do describe most vampires as "evil", as much as "incompatible with humanity".

If it is evil to feed upon humans, then yes, vampires are evil, because if they *do* pick the good option and not feed, they won't be vampires (or strictly speaking anything, because they won't be *alive*)

But then, is it truly evil to do what is neccessary for one's own survival? Is Galactus evil? He is certainly much worse than any vampire....

interesting. Being a witch I'd have to insist that witches can be good or evil....we are alive and have souls and such, so we can choose. witch does not equal satan worshipper

Do you weigh as much as a duck?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Do you weigh as much as a duck?

weird question. Goes back to witch hunting days?

I'd say I weigh a lot more than a duck.

[Galactus]

weird question. Goes back to witch hunting days?

I'd say I weigh a lot more than a duck.

...

You've never seen Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

...

You've never seen Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail?

it's been years...I had forgotten that scene...you have just made my day much better, thank you

[Feral Bonsai]

You might want to reconsider that, as it makes you a potential cannibal. Whenever a human gets cooked, say in a house fire, it is usually described as "smelling like bacon."

Don't go Soylent Green on us, XRay.

MMMMMMMMMM......

Longpork

[Lord Qyburn]

we are alive and have souls and such

Could you show it to me? Because I'm not at all convinced.

Minus the existence of a soul, a vampire is evil on the basis of being the human's (super)natural predator.

[Galactus]

Could you show it to me? Because I'm not at all convinced.

Minus the existence of a soul, a vampire is evil on the basis of being the human's (super)natural predator.

Then, does the same apply to Galactus? Is *he* evil?

(of course, as far as we know Vampires aren't essential to the functioning of the cosmos while Galactus is, but there is a bit of a similarity here methinks)

[Lyanna Stark]

You are nothing more than racists! I fought that we, fantasy fans, constitute a group of open-minded individuals. It seems I was terribly wrong.

You just fear what you do not understand. Do you think vampires are limited to drinking human blood, or that they always have to drink in order to feed? My girlfriend is a vampire herself, and she hasn`t killed anyone since I started to date her. It is very difficult for us, and my family rejects her, but our love shall conquer the opposition. I allow her to drink my blood because I trust her, and love her.

It is because of such ignorant anti-vampire racists as you that my gilfriend still has to hide from the hunters. Really, humanity is extremally sellfish, raping the entire planet yet hating other sentient species because of feeding habits.

A golden star for you.

[Lord Qyburn]

(of course, as far as we know Vampires aren't essential to the functioning of the cosmos while Galactus is, but there is a bit of a similarity here methinks)

He is? I thought he just ate planets because it was cool.

[dingosatemybaby]

I think it all depends on how the vampires are explained in whatever medium they exist in. I love vampires in fiction of any kind as long as they're presented in an original, intelligent way.

Buffy/Angel did the "demon sets up shop in your body - you lose your soul" thing, The Necrocscope novels treated them as (IIRC) some symbiotic/parasitical creatures that used your body as a host. Don't even get me started on Anne Rice's garbage (let's keep in mind she is the same nutjob who rewrote children's fairy tales as BDSM erotic stories).

So are they good, evil or something else entirely? I think it makes a difference how much humanity is left inside them, how much control it has over the vampiric element (whatever form that takes, be it supernatural disease, demon, symbiote, etc) and how they got to BE a vampire in the 1st place.

My 11 yr old is a vegetarian and she considers the rest of the family on the same levels as vampires because we eat animal flesh.

Definitely the geekiest thread.

Has anyone read "I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson?

./D

[DJ Dawn]

Then, does the same apply to Galactus? Is *he* evil

Well....this touches upon the definition of evil. It appears yours(and my own) defination differs from Noontidal's and Lyanna. I don't think something is evil just for killing something else that it needs to kill to survive. That's just survival, no morality can play into it.

Galactus isn't evil. Vampires tend to evil due to the personal nature of their killstyle.

[Galactus]

He is? I thought he just ate planets because it was cool.

Nope. The Universe itself (sort of, Eternity. Who refers to it as "The Universe that is I") basically appeared at his trial and said "Y'know, He really IS neccessary for my continued existence... But you puny mortals cannot comprehend why!"

There has been a bunch of (different, and often contradictionary) explanations as to exactly what his purpose is. (notably Galactus is probably the oldest being in the universe, being slightly older than the universe itself)

[Lord Qyburn]

One has to ask why Galactus restricts himself to planets with sentient species then.

[Tobin]

interesting. Being a witch I'd have to insist that witches can be good or evil....we are alive and have souls and such, so we can choose. witch does not equal satan worshipper

QFT

I also always have to stress: Pagan does not equal Satan worshiper.

on topic...

I'd figure that over the centuries vampires lose more and more of their humanity as they are forced to do things to survive. Drinking down a living creature while it struggles against you probably disillusions a lot of idealistic vampires. They may see themselves as evil and give in to the fact that they cannot escape their fate and might as well be true monsters.

In the vamp-eat-vamp theater of shadows, you learn to be a hunter or else you become the hunted.

--for the record, Anne Rice sucks. I still haven't been able to finish any of her books.

--LKHamilton (Anita Blake series) needs to cut back the pr0n - the first few books were great (even though alot was cheesed from WW:WoD). Now, I feel like I should be seeing an EXPLICIT warning label on the covers.

[dingosatemybaby]

OT, but since we're talking vampires - just found this snip at Comics Continuum:

This is referring to another series of Buffy Comics:

"BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER UPDATE - The new Buffy the Vampire Slayer series is targeted for a March launch, according to Dark Horse Comics. The first story arc will be a four-part series. The comic will chronicle events after the Buffy television series. Buffy creator Joss Whedon is writing, with art by Georges Jeanty."

Whedon writing, no less.

Today is a good day.

./D

[Lord Qyburn]

QFT

You still don't have souls though.

Drinking down a living creature while it struggles against you probably disillusions a lot of idealistic vampires.

I thought we were limiting ourselves to sapients? If all it takes to be evil is eating living creatures then almost every animal (and even some plant) on the planet is evil.

[Galactus]

One has to ask why Galactus restricts himself to planets with sentient species then.

He does not. He needs a specific type of planet (those with a specific energy-signature) most of the planets of that type also bears sentient life, but not all of them.

In fact, the Devourer will, all things being equal, prefer a planet without sentient life (if only because it's annoying to have to destroy their defences first) but the supply of suitable planets is scarce enough that he really doesen't take many chances.

Well....this touches upon the definition of evil. It appears yours(and my own) defination differs from Noontidal's and Lyanna. I don't think something is evil just for killing something else that it needs to kill to survive. That's just survival, no morality can play into it.

Galactus isn't evil. Vampires tend to evil due to the personal nature of their killstyle.

One interesting argument (that Galactus himself uses with the Watcher in his very first appearance) is that killing to him is *incidental*. A neccessary, if regrettable, side-effect to his feeding. He'd be just as happy if they just scarpered off planet so he could snack in peace. (which is what the more advanced races has a tendency to do when he shows up)