Dragon Age, the Inquisitors Thread - open spoilers inside

[The Anti-Targ]

This thread will contain open spoilers from all Dragon age games (Origins, DA2 and Inquisition), expansions and DLC. Be warned, this time you must expect the Inquisition.

Carry on good, and not so good Inquisitors.

ETA: for grammar Nazis, the thread title is not to be read as possessive, hence no apostrophe.

[The Anti-Targ]

Definitely. Third thread should be spoilers. Sadly, I'm still slogging through and won't be in it.

Limited play time combined with a lack of focused objectives in the game have conspired to leave me underwhelmed and with no burning desire to play. I like the game, but I don't feel driven by the story to play immediately. I think mostly I just lose interest in all the areas while running around with little purpose. :dunno:

This is the draw back of open world games for me too. I often find myself aimlessly mucking around in open world games. Fortunately with DA:I I was enjoying it well enough to see it through to the end, but probably putting at least 20 or 30 more hours into it than either of the first plays through the first 2 games in the series. At least subsequent plays through get considerably shortened. I expect any more times I play through to come in at well under 100 hours.

Hopefully we see Rhom back in the thread before too long.

So back to Flemeth. She's dead dead now right? As in the woman called Flemeth is no more and any soul/spirit that occupied her body now resides in Solas and / or has passed beyond the veil.

Looking forward to playing the non-demon baby version of the game to see how the mother-daughter conversation goes.

Do you think Bioware always intended Flemeth to be Mythal right from DA:O, or have they added to Flemeth as they went? IN DA2 she was much revered by Merrill's clan, and one assumes the Dalish in general. So that suggests at least in DA2 Bioware decided Flemeth was more than merely a very powerful mage with an immortality complex.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

The night is long
And the path is dark
Look to the sky
For one day soon
The dawn will come...

the cutscene when you reach Skyhold for the first time is E P I C!

[Jon AS]

So back to Flemeth. She's dead dead now right? As in the woman called Flemeth is no more and any soul/spirit that occupied her body now resides in Solas and / or has passed beyond the veil.

Probably dead, yes. Though she seems to be doing something at the Eluvian right at the start of the scene, and she's cheated death before. But yes, I think the point of the scene is probably to be a passing of the torch moment and Solas is now our mysterious mythological figure who will show up once or twice per game to be cryptic.

It's a pity, I really liked Flemeth in her limited appearances. Solas also seems a hell of a lot easier to get along with. Even the Dalish were never under any delusion that Mythal was a nice goddess.

Do you think Bioware always intended Flemeth to be Mythal right from DA:O, or have they added to Flemeth as they went? IN DA2 she was much revered by Merrill's clan, and one assumes the Dalish in general. So that suggests at least in DA2 Bioware decided Flemeth was more than merely a very powerful mage with an immortality complex.

I go back and forth on this, but I'm leaning towards "this was always the plan" at the moment. Not a plan for the exact storylines, but the background of the world seems to have been developed in extreme detail from the start. Replaying DA2 I keep stumbling across minor references that are echoed or directly addressed in Inquisition. The altar Hawke and Merril bring the amulet to is dedicated to Mythal, for example. And Flemeth point blank asks Merril if she knows who she (Flemeth) is beyond the elven title by which she addressed her. Merril's answer is actually kind of evasive.

The night is long

And the path is dark

Look to the sky

For one day soon

The dawn will come...

the cutscene when you reach Skyhold for the first time is E P I C!

I didn't actually catch on to the fact that it was the theme melody until the instruments set in. There's some issues with animations, but overall it's a cool scene with just the right amount of cheese.

[Talleyrand]

Just checking I've got this right.

Solas wants to free the rest of the elven "gods" and it seems a certain amount of power is needed to do this and his plan was to give the orb to Cory and let him power it up somehow. This obviously didn't work and so instead he steals the power of Mythal (and possibly the Old God) so he can continue with the plan. And the reason Mythal gave up her life is because Solas seemingly can do something she can't hence the whole "the people need me" thing

[The Anti-Targ]

I need to re-watch that post script scene to try to make some more sense out of what Solas/Dread Wolf was trying to do. Bioware has some 'splainin' to do wrt a being like the Dread Wolf being so desperate as to give an orb of such immense power to one of the original Magister-Darkspawns. Surely the Dread Wolf must know that those Magisters were very wrongly motivated, and the passage of time would not have made them more benign in their ambitions.

Or were they. Obviously Coryphy-shits has been severely tainted by red lyrium, which contains added blight, which might have (probably) pre-existed those Magisters' alleged attempt to take control of the Golden city. Maybe the Magisters did not have evil intent after all but that the red lyrium got into them and tainted them. Thus perhaps the Dread Wolf believed Coryphy-shits would be a more reliable and trustworthy ally than he turned out to be.

[Jon AS]

Just checking I've got this right.

Solas wants to free the rest of the elven "gods" and it seems a certain amount of power is needed to do this and his plan was to give the orb to Cory and let him power it up somehow. This obviously didn't work and so instead he steals the power of Mythal (and possibly the Old God) so he can continue with the plan. And the reason Mythal gave up her life is because Solas seemingly can do something she can't hence the whole "the people need me" thing

We don't know what Solas wanted to do. All we do know is that after his long sleep he didn't have the power to unlock his orb, so he gave it to Corypheus hoping that he would do so for him. Now that the orb is destroyed he needs another source of power in order to carry out his plan.

Or were they. Obviously Coryphy-shits has been severely tainted by red lyrium, which contains added blight, which might have (probably) pre-existed those Magisters' alleged attempt to take control of the Golden city. Maybe the Magisters did not have evil intent after all but that the red lyrium got into them and tainted them. Thus perhaps the Dread Wolf believed Coryphy-shits would be a more reliable and trustworthy ally than he turned out to be.

Corypheus says he was corrupted in the city. Or rather, he and his buddies willingly accepted it upon discovering that the Golden City was actually black in order to gain power.

They originally went into the Fade at the behest of their gods, but after he woke up he could no longer hear Dumat. That, in combination with what he saw in the city, convinced him that there are no gods, and as a former high priest that bugs him. As a consequence he decided that he himself would become a god, so that Thedas would no longer have to languish in a state of godlessness.

[Lyanna Stark]

Corypheus says he was corrupted in the city. Or rather, he and his buddies willingly accepted it upon discovering that the Golden City was actually black in order to gain power.

They originally went into the Fade at the behest of their gods, but after he woke up he could no longer hear Dumat. That, in combination with what he saw in the city, convinced him that there are no gods, and as a former high priest that bugs him. As a consequence he decided that he himself would become a god, so that Thedas would no longer have to languish in a state of godlessness.

Interestingly, in "Legacy" Corypheus constantly goes on about "Dumat, why have you forsaken me?" but he still gains extra powers, supposedly then from Dumat. Although one has to wonder how a Dragon of Silence *answers*. Probably not with speech.

I do love your explanation of Corypheus' logic though.

So back to Flemeth. She's dead dead now right? As in the woman called Flemeth is no more and any soul/spirit that occupied her body now resides in Solas and / or has passed beyond the veil.

I tend to think she's not dead. Since one of the brohouha has been that she is going to take over Morrigan's body (which it turned out she at least said she wouldn't do if Morrigan was unwilling) I just have a feeling Flemeth has a backup plan. She's potentially been dead once and then transported in an amulet as well. She seems like Lady Horcrux to me. Especially since from the Temple of Mythal, it seems the Dread Wolf and Mythal were in cahoots, it would surprise me if Solas has offed Flemeth for good.

Or were they. Obviously Coryphy-shits has been severely tainted by red lyrium, which contains added blight, which might have (probably) pre-existed those Magisters' alleged attempt to take control of the Golden city. Maybe the Magisters did not have evil intent after all but that the red lyrium got into them and tainted them. Thus perhaps the Dread Wolf believed Coryphy-shits would be a more reliable and trustworthy ally than he turned out to be.

Allegedly Solas couldn't withstand Corypheus just after he "woke up", so it seems he didn't mean to give the Glowing Ball of Doom to Corypheus at all. As the for the Red Lyrium, if the Blight happened due to the Magisters corrupting the Golden City and then awakening the Old Gods, then the Blight was created after Corypheus went into the Fade, no?

Also the Dread Wolf himself pre-dates Corypheus et al by a lot, I imagine. I mean, from what I understand, Solas is still hung up on the fall of Arlathan. Also, ELVEN GLORY!! (Sera has the best comments on loads of things. )

[paddington]

This is the draw back of open world games for me too. I often find myself aimlessly mucking around in open world games. Fortunately with DA:I I was enjoying it well enough to see it through to the end, but probably putting at least 20 or 30 more hours into it than either of the first plays through the first 2 games in the series. At least subsequent plays through get considerably shortened. I expect any more times I play through to come in at well under 100 hours.

Yeah I am at that point now, not sure if I could replay it back to back. I got a couple of other games I want to play, I also want to play through 1&2 again. To me it feels like there's 2 games stiched together. Crestwood/fallow mire feel more contained, linear than most of the other zones.

So are the elven gods corrupted by the Blight, or corruptable? If so then the wardens demon army fighting through the deep roads to kill the old gods before they are corrupted doesn't sound like such a whacky insane plan. Other than killing the none mage wardens to fuel blood magic, which is kind of naughty.

Also Cole said something interesting about dwarves, I can't find it at the moment, so I may have to go back to my warrior playthrough and see if I can re-hear it. It was something about Varric and me being more real because of our connection to the stone, could be misrembering.

[Jon AS]

Interestingly, in "Legacy" Corypheus constantly goes on about "Dumat, why have you forsaken me?" but he still gains extra powers, supposedly then from Dumat. Although one has to wonder how a Dragon of Silence *answers*. Probably not with speech.

I'm not sure if he really gains extra powers or if he just remembers. 'Oh, yeah, I know how to shoot fire!' He is pretty confused throughout.

In the end it's just a video game bossfight (albeit possibly the best in the DA series; crappy DA2 camera notwithstanding), so I'm not sure how much it actually tells us about the character.

I do love your explanation of Corypheus' logic though.

I think it comes across a bit clearer if you pick the templar path.

Calpernia is also just overall a much more interesting character. Replaying DA2, I feel like they literally went over the list of named templars in that game to see which one (not called Cullen) isn't a potential victim of crazy mages* and Samson was the only one that more or less fit the description (depending on dialogue choices it's hinted that he might be executed, but it doesn't happen on screen).

*there's actually quite a few good templars in Kirkwall, but most of them get murdered by mages; some even by mages to whom they have been staunch friends and allies for years (RIP Ser Thrask); no wonder barely anybody stood up to Meredith, most of the good guys were killed off by the people who would have profited the most from their presence

Allegedly Solas couldn't withstand Corypheus just after he "woke up", so it seems he didn't mean to give the Glowing Ball of Doom to Corypheus at all. As the for the Red Lyrium, if the Blight happened due to the Magisters corrupting the Golden City and then awakening the Old Gods, then the Blight was created after Corypheus went into the Fade, no?

That's an interesting reading of his line. I took it to mean "I was too weak to do it myself, therefore I needed somebody to do it for me." not "I was too weak and he took it from me."

I'd actually think that Cory would have a bit more to say in Solas' direction if the latter was the way it went, whereas I assume Solas didn't exactly walk up to him and just handed it over in the former case, which would explain the lack of reaction.

(Sera has the best comments on loads of things. )

Sera is hilarious in many ways. She's just absolutely infuriating to talk to, as she can't handle any disagreement.

So are the elven gods corrupted by the Blight, or corruptable?

We have literally no idea at this point. Given their ties to dragons and the fact that 'normal' dragons are supposed to be resistant to the blight... nope, still up in the air, I'd say.

Though the Darkspawn seemed to be avoiding Flemeth's hut in Origins.

On the subject of elves, gods and Darkspawn there is a nicely cryptic and ultimately very uninformative codex entry if you drink from the Well and have found the Veilfire rune that gives you the "old elven writing" entry:

There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the Earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

"Soulless workers" could be Darkspawn, and the pillars then would presumably be Old Gods. On the other hand the basic assumption is that all the writing in the Arbor Wilds predates the First Blight. And it seems unlikely that the elves would have been preparing grand military adventures after the fall of Arlathan.

Of course it could also refer to the dwarves, who have no connection to the Fade and don't dream. But dwarves do have souls, so maybe it's just more 'elves being arrogant jerks'.

Also:

She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice.

There is a brief image of an elaborate golden spear, glowing with unbearable heat. Then it fades.

Could just be a hint that some ancient elven superweapon is hidden somewhere.

Or maybe the weapon was actually used and the blight is the equivalent of nuclear fallout. Though really the only thing tying this to the blight is the gold colour via the Golden City. Golden spear makes the city it was used against look golden, but when the magisters breach the barrier around ground zero the effect fades and it causes a ripple effect that spreads the blight?

[paddington]

Interesting I recall Solas "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood, undirected, whatever skill at arms it had gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream."

The pillars of the earth maybe thats a dwarf related thing, like the stone. Maybe the dwarves aren't conntected to the fade now, because they were conntected to something else in the past and whatever the elves were upto cut that connection.

edit:- Hmm bit of a pain in the butt that some of the clues are hidden in the party banter, which is hit and miss for me this play through

[Jon AS]

Interesting I recall Solas "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood, undirected, whatever skill at arms it had gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream."

Oh yeah, I think I remember that. Solas is such a Fade supremacist.

Do you think Bioware always intended Flemeth to be Mythal right from DA:O, or have they added to Flemeth as they went?

Found this on the subject. That's pretty definite. If you believe the lead writer.

No spoilers of any kind in the link, btw. At least in the relevant two posts at the top, haven't gone through the entire thread.

ETA:

Tavern Songs now available as free download as they were left out of the soundtrack for some unfathomable reason. Doubly good for me, as I didn't buy the soundtrack in the first place but probably would have broken down and paid the ten bucks if they had just added the songs.

[Lyanna Stark]

That's an interesting reading of his line. I took it to mean "I was too weak to do it myself, therefore I needed somebody to do it for me." not "I was too weak and he took it from me."

I'd actually think that Cory would have a bit more to say in Solas' direction if the latter was the way it went, whereas I assume Solas didn't exactly walk up to him and just handed it over in the former case, which would explain the lack of reaction.

Flemeth says "I knew you would come" and "You should not have given the orb to Corypheus Dread Wolf" and he replies

"I was too weak to unlock its power" and then "but the people, they need me" and then he goes on to how he cannot abandon them, how he is sorry and Flemeth says "I am sorry too"

Hence:

1. Flemeth knew Solas/Fen'Harel would come to see her and could prepare for whatever that was

2. Solas doesn't outright say or not say that he gave the orb willingly to Corypheus. Even if he did, it seems to have been an act of desperation, hence my interpretation that "too weak" may have meant he didn't have much of a choice, or that Corypheus took it. If Fen'Harel was too weak to unlock its power and Corypheus was not, what stopped Corypheus from just taking it?

3. Obviously there is something about Elven glory (hah!)/Elven people needing saving/something since both Mythal and Fen'Harel are on it

4. Flemeth knowing that he would come plus her "I am sorry too" and Solas seeming surprised when she dropped seem to indicate to me Flemeth meant to give him whatever part of her life essence/mythal-soul/plus potential old god soul she possesses. It also leads me to believe she is not dead.

5. Flemeth in general strikes me as someone who plays a long game. A very, very loooong game. For her to be one-uped by someone she knew would approach seems very un-Flemeth.

Flemeth's commentary to Morrigan when Morrigan drinks out of the Well and realises she is now slave to her mother's will for eternity is both hilarious and sad. The same goes for the scene you get if Morrigan arrives at Skyhold with her son (the old god soul demon baby with Warden/Alistair) and he takes off into the Eluvian because Flemeth calls him. Morrigan's stand-off with her mother is both epic and tragic, and in the end it is Flemeth who seems humbled and saddened over what she has become.

Interesting I recall Solas "Dwarves are the severed arm of a once mighty hero, lying in a pool of blood, undirected, whatever skill at arms it had gone forever. Although it might twitch to give the appearance of life, it will never dream."

The pillars of the earth maybe thats a dwarf related thing, like the stone. Maybe the dwarves aren't conntected to the fade now, because they were conntected to something else in the past and whatever the elves were upto cut that connection.

edit:- Hmm bit of a pain in the butt that some of the clues are hidden in the party banter, which is hit and miss for me this play through

Oooh that is an amazing comment. When does he say that? I seriously need to run a different party or try something else to trigger party banter, since I play so little now (no time) and I tend to just be brutally efficient with questing to get done and move on to the story parts.

[Jon AS]

If Fen'Harel was too weak to unlock its power and Corypheus was not, what stopped Corypheus from just taking it?

Not knowing that he exists and has an orb? Not knowing where to find him even if he does? On the other hand, Solas is actively searching for a way to unlock the orb, so him seeking out a powerful magister seems like a pretty straightforward move.

One of the themes Solas harps on about throughout the game is whether the ends justify the means. Could it be that he is bothered by all the collateral damage that his attempt to use Cory has caused? Or maybe it's foreshadowing of what he's going to do. Or maybe it's both.

If Solas somehow arranged for him to come across it along with a handy "How to physically enter the Fade and become a god in three easy steps"* handbook it explains why Corypheus doesn't have anything to say to Solas throughout the game. I'd expect at least some villainous gloating if he had to take it by force.

*

Step 1: Kill head of major world religion in ritual sacrifice

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit!

5. Flemeth in general strikes me as someone who plays a long game. A very, very loooong game. For her to be one-uped by someone she knew would approach seems very un-Flemeth.

True. Plus she has that whole "I will have my revenge!" thing. Vengeance is a bit hard to savour if you're dead.

Oooh that is an amazing comment. When does he say that? I seriously need to run a different party or try something else to trigger party banter, since I play so little now (no time) and I tend to just be brutally efficient with questing to get done and move on to the story parts.

I've been trying to figure out where that was, too. It's an interesting extension of his general admiration and longing for all things Fade. Taken to extremes he's essentially saying that dwarves aren't really alive. So if they are amongst the collateral damage caused by his future plans, that's not really a great loss, is it?

[paddington]

I'd be pretty shocked if Flemeth doesn't have a back-up plan. " I'm sorry too" sounds more of a threat to me (not quite finished the game got the last mission). Mythal being justice and vengeance I am reasonable sure Solas is going to end up in the doghouse. Pity I perfer Solas, maybe because he was my go to mage. (not that I didn't like Viv or Dorian, just perfered a 2 rogue + tank team).

I am pretty sure it was in the Exalted plains that solas said that, try around there with Varric, could be the hissing wastes.

Lyrium being alive and Dwarves not (according to Solas) is pretty interesting. Maybe the severing was the Dwarves putting their magic and dreams into the stone (lyrium) and thats why they are somewhat resistant to its effects, and have neither magic or dreams. Possibly the collateral damge would be Dwarves regaining that, it would be such a change that they wouldn't really be the same.

Another odd fan theory has Sera as Andruil. Quite like that one, Sera has an interesting reaction to hunting dragons. An well the Inquistion has attrached 3 old gods so far (OGB, Mythal, dreadwolf) a fourth isn't too much of a stretch

[Talleyrand]

With what Paddington said and Cole and Varric's banter where Cole says

"Do you write to reach across? To hear the song that was sundered?"

&

"You're quiet, but the old song still echoes inside, almost like templars"

Given that Solas makes repeated references to the fade and "song" I'm going with the theory that the Dwarves purposely cut themselves off from the Fade and that Lyruim was the result. (Some of the dwarves in Origins talked about how the Lyrium "sang" to them)

[paddington]

Just finished it, that felt much more like the start of a series than DA:O, didn't finish DA2 which I going to have to do now. There's plenty of unanswered questions, the wardens, mages, tevinter and Solas. He seemed kind of sad at the end, I wouldn't be too suprised if he's the big bad in upcoming games. That however felt much more like an origin than a contiuation.

[Jon AS]

I am pretty sure it was in the Exalted plains that solas said that, try around there with Varric, could be the hissing wastes.

Found it

, so it's probably not location specific. The ones right after are interesting, too.

More than five and a half hours of just party banter, and that's not even counting cutscenes and player dialogue. This really is a massive game.

[HK-47]

Observation: The organic meatbags in this 'game' would have a far better chance had they a decent blaster pistol at their sides, their ability to kill efficiently is extremely flawed.

[Rhom]

Have not read the thread. I did play Emprise de Lion today and found that zone to be the most to my liking. Seemed like even the sidequests tied into the zone's purpose.