Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 This video explains it more eloquently than I could in regards to what evidence there is. I had the same opinion before viewing this video, I would probably say similar things only missing things. It is a pretty comprehensive explanation only in video form so there is no need for me to explain it when it is better explained in the video above. I am not putting it here to create a debate that is about convincing people, rather I take it as a given. This is less a debate about the premise and I am more interested about the views of people who agree there is plenty of textual evidence pointing to Jon Snow being Azor Ahai and there is plenty of evidence pointing to Daenerys being Azor Ahai and then trying to reach conclusions on what all of that means. Still this is a free forum, you can say whatever you want. Are both Jon and Daenerys Azor Ahai? I theorized that Bran could be the Last hero of old nan's story, he certainly seems to have a big role to play. In that case if one of them is Azor Ahai and Bran is the last hero then what is the role of the one remaining? Even with disregarding Bran, if only one of them is Azor Ahai, then why does the other person fit the prophecy and foreshadowing so much? I am not sure what to conclude other than perhaps both together make Azor Ahai, but I am definitely not sure about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I didn't watch the video yet but the reason that there's so much evidence for both sides is probably George fucking with us. It's possible that the prophecy is completely false and there will be no Azor Ahai reborn and maybe he never existed in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I also am not gonna watch the video, but there are supposed to be three heads of the dragon. So it would be Daenerys, Jon and someone else. Probably Tyrion (as Aerys' bastard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I agree it's puzzling. At this point I tend to think the following:1. Neither of them will fulfill all aspects of the prophecies and there will be no confirmation or big reveal by GRRM2. Both will die quite publiclly and as big damn heros (sir)3. Fans on earth and Historians in Westeros alike will debate about who was the "true" AA.Nothing else really makes sense at this point, except thAt whatever visions that led to the prophecies simply foretold things in each characters life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePosterThatWasPromised Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think (honestly, this might seem like sarcasm) that it's just so at the end of the series we'll be left debating it on these forums for all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 3. Fans on earth and Historians in Westeros alike will debate about who was the "true" AA. I tend to think this is most likely. I don't think it will be very clear who was AA when the series finishes. ETA:Also, if Jon or Dany or whoever ends up contributing to saving humanity, who really gives a damn about who gets what title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion06 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because the signs that foretell the coming of AAR are so absurdly generic a smoked ham could meet the requirements. The only specific detail we ever get about TPTWP is Barristan's second hand (or third hand) account that a woods witch told Aegon that TPTWP would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line, but we have no idea whether the woods witch was telling the truth or not, or in what context the "line" of Aerys and Rhaella was meant to be taken in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because the signs that foretell the coming of AAR are so absurdly generic a smoked ham could meet the requirements. The only specific detail we ever get about TPTWP is Barristan's second hand (or third hand) account that a woods witch told Aegon that TPTWP would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line, but we have no idea whether the woods witch was telling the truth or not, or in what context the "line" of Aerys and Rhaella was meant to be taken in. I'd say the "wake dragons from stone" bit was pretty specific as well. I know some people still think it's a metaphorical dragon, but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because the signs that foretell the coming of AAR are so absurdly generic a smoked ham could meet the requirements. The only specific detail we ever get about TPTWP is Barristan's second hand (or third hand) account that a woods witch told Aegon that TPTWP would come from Aerys and Rhaella's line, but we have no idea whether the woods witch was telling the truth or not, or in what context the "line" of Aerys and Rhaella was meant to be taken in. I'm going to have to start looking for hams that were born under bleeding stars. :D Really it's to keep us guessing. If there's one AAR, we won't know who it is until the end, if we ever know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Daenerys is pointed explicitly as Azor Ahai, while Jon has much more subtle clues. Dany is a red herring, Jon is the true AA/ptwp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think it's one of four things. 1. There is more than one Azor Ahai. 2. There is no objective Azor Ahai and everything that fits for both of them does so because people are looking for things that fit. So at the end of the story, it will still be up in the air as to who was Azor Ahai. 3. Azor Ahai and the Prince That Was Promised are two different people, and one of them is one and one of them is the other. Of course then it gets into nitty gritty issues like which one is supposed to do what. It's also hairy because both Jon and Dany seem to fit tPtwP; it's not like one fits only AA stuff and one fits only tPtwP stuff. 4. Only one is the "real" AA and the other is a misdirection. Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because they're trying to distract you from Tyrion, who subtly fulfills more of the prophecy than either of them - reborn when Lemore used CPR to save him from drowning- given broth upon his rebirth fulfilling the salt- torches are heavily featured in the fight with the stone men fulfilling the smoke- reborn during a red sunset, fulfilling the bleeding star- killed a white lion when he killed Tywin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barri_The_Bold Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 There's evidenve pointing to both, Daenerys and Jon because prophecies are never clear and always depend on interpretation. Some see Jon as AA, some Daenerys and some even others as AA. But it will (most likely) never be clear who the "real" AA is, if there ever is to be one at all. Rationally I think AA/tPtwp is just a legend such as Beowulf in the real world. A nice story with maybe a part of truth (big hero saved Westeros but was only a man) but a story still. My not so rational part hopes that there is more behind that, but so far I don't see that AA is going to be revealed. Edit: Sorry for being so rational, I still love (crackpot) theories, just wanted to speak my mind ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myufa Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 There's a line by Measter Aemon about the gender of dragons being 'changeable as a flame' or something along those lines. I think that relates to how the prophecy changes owners and/or is shared sometimes. Dany has dragons, Jon is the son of ice and fire and dreams of fighting with a red sword, bran travels to find the children of the forest and learn their magic, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Targaryen Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Why, it's Stannis of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because AAR is either Dany, Jon or both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 i think the whole point of this is Prophecy is BS and people will make the facts fit the prophecy after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It's either Dany, or Dany and Jon. No way she's a red herring imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 It's either Dany, or Dany and Jon. No way she's a red herring imo. why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 why? Because she already did exactly what Azor Ahai reborn was supposed to do, wake dragons from stone when the red star bleeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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