Jon/Arya/Tyrion love triangle becomes the Gendry/Arya/(possibly)Aegon?

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I don't remember Arya ever eating human flesh while in Nymeria? She was in her while Nymeria was killing the Mummers, but I don't think she was eating them. She's also not controlling Nym, at least not consciously.

Well, she does not do it consciously but she is there when Nymeria does it so that she can report that "meat was meat and men were prey".

(Canibalism will be the next big controversial topic of the series, now that winter has come and they are running out of food...)

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I don't remember Arya ever eating human flesh while in Nymeria? She was in her while Nymeria was killing the Mummers, but I don't think she was eating them. She's also not controlling Nym, at least not consciously.

Bran!Summer ate some of the dead NW mutineers, IRRC.

None of the direwolves seem to have done the nasty yet - wonder when some of them would. I bet Summer will be the first, he's been hanging out with the trio of wolves that he's become alpha to, one of them is a female. It would be pretty awkward if Bran warged him when it happens, but he's already broken two of the three sacred rules of skinchanging without knowing they even existed, so I can see him breaking the third, too, eventually.

Arya remembers it from her dreams in braavos. We have 3 POV active Stark wargs. One each! The Targ wolf is a sister lover, makes complete sense ;)

[jet199]

How would you know that? I very much doubt that anyone even had the concept of incest before the existence of family as a social unit. How could you have an incest taboo if you don't have the concept of family relations? The former is dependent on the latter.

Actually, the complete opposite is true in real life. Genetic Sexual Attraction and Westermarck Effect are real psychological phenomena. In RL, boys and girls who grew up together - whether in adopted or foster families, or in social environments like the Israeli kibutz - are by and large grossed out by the idea of sex/romantic love/marriage to someone they grew up with; there have even been examples of boys and girls in Iran who were engaged to each other as children made to grow up together in order to facilitate the marriage, but it only lead to the opposite result - they were disgusted by the idea and categorically refused the marriage; one girl even told her family she'd rather become a prostitute and be shunned by the society, and the boy said she was the last girl in the world he'd want to marry, even though she was beautiful. And they did not hate each other or anything.

OTOH, there are numerous examples of biological siblings who only met as adults for the first time (because they were adopted, fostered, grew up in orphanages, had the same sperm donor...) falling for each other. Some of them ever opted to live together or marry (hiding their parentage). An article on GSA I read included an example of a woman who told the researchers that she didn't see anything wrong with her relationship with the man who is her biological half-sibling, but they only met as adults - but when asked if she would hook up with one of her adopted brothers she grew up with, she categorically said 'no' and was disgusted by the idea.

The incest taboo exists in chimpanzees so it definitively did exist way back into the depths of human evolution. It existed back before language so it is obviously it is based on who you were raise with as your siblings rather than any blood relationship.

I wonder GRRM is going to replace the concern Arya has about incest with worrying about the class difference between her and Gendry. That's why Gendry also had a secret parentage which at least one important character knows and can reveal later on.

[The Undead Martyr]

The incest taboo exists in chimpanzees so it definitively did exist way back into the depths of human evolution. It existed back before language so it is obviously it is based on who you were raise with as your siblings rather than any blood relationship.

I wonder GRRM is going to replace the concern Arya has about incest with worrying about the class difference between her and Gendry. That's why Gendry also had a secret parentage which at least one important character knows and can reveal later on.

You really think Arya of all people would care about that? Especially by the time of TWOW/ADOS and the Otherocalypse?

[Reek Havoc]

I wonder GRRM is going to replace the concern Arya has about incest with worrying about the class difference between her and Gendry. That's why Gendry also had a secret parentage which at least one important character knows and can reveal later on.

You really think Arya of all people would care about that? Especially by the time of TWOW/ADOS and the Otherocalypse?

Arya couldn't care less about social class. It's sort of an ongoing theme with her. Her favorite brother was a bastard, which technically puts him at a lower class. Micah was a butcher's boy, way below her social class. Gendry's a low-class bastard... it's never been an issue for her.

Gendry, on the other hand, could be a different story. It could even be argued that their class difference was one of the deciding factors that lead him to joining the Brotherhood in the first place. I think it bothers him quite a bit.

[Arya Targaryen]

Arya couldn't care less about social class. It's sort of an ongoing theme with her. Her favorite brother was a bastard, which technically puts him at a lower class. Micah was a butcher's boy, way below her social class. Gendry's a low-class bastard... it's never been an issue for her.

Gendry, on the other hand, could be a different story. It could even be argued that their class difference was one of the deciding factors that lead him to joining the Brotherhood in the first place. I think it bothers him quite a bit.

Arya doesn't care about class differences - but due to their different upbringing, it may still cause problems. If Arya gave up her birthright and marry Gendry, the blacksmith, it may work, though even then I think they may see some things differently, and with Arya, you never know how serious she may take that. If Gendry was raised by Arya to her class, I just can't see that. Gendry never seemed to understand what motivates Arya.

This is already my headcanon, as a nod to GRRM's original draft ( :stillsick: ) and for the Lols of the two of them sitting awkwardly while their beasties do the nasty...

bonus if Jon thinks "we're not bloody targaryens" in response. :cool4:

LOL. I wonder if their hormone levels are effected by the wolves - or they may just take it as a sign from the Old Gods - well, if the wolves can do it :cool4:

Rule 1- Never Warg a Human (Bran breaks it)

Rule 2- Never feed on human flesh while in the beast (Arya and I think Bran break that one)

Rule 3- Never be in your animal when its doing the Nasty ( Jon, looking at you buddy)

The moment I realized that Varamyr not only broke all the rules he mentions in the Prologue, but he always warged the female wolf on purpose when she was mounted by One Eye :ack:

[NorthGirl]

:lmao: LOLs, you guys' talk of warged wolf sex is scandalously hilarious. I wish Arya Targaryen had not brought up that lovely point about Varamyr though. Could've happily lived in denial if that particular truth.

Ok, serious talk...

Arya doesn't care about class differences - but due to their different upbringing, it may still cause problems. If Arya gave up her birthright and marry Gendry, the blacksmith, it may work, though even then I think they may see some things differently, and with Arya, you never know how serious she may take that. If Gendry was raised by Arya to her class, I just can't see that. Gendry never seemed to understand what motivates Arya.

I think there are two things at work here:

1. Gendry was raised as one of those people "who don't care who sits the IT, they just pray for a good harvest and a summer that never ends". So her ideas about "sides" and loyalty to the North just don't matter to him. Although I do think that, not only does she not begrudge him that sentiment as early as Weasel soup's aftermath, but she also understands why he would feel that way and doesn't expect him to feel strongly either way. Arya also doesn't care much about the big picture, social groups at large and more about the individuals though so hopefully that would help bridge the gap.
   
2. Arya was raised with both her parents there as part of a family unit. Gendry wasn't and the bit he shared about his mom and unknown dad, when Ned told her about Ashara Dayne, probably means he doesn't place the same value on being a unit. Arya has a pack mentality and can't comprehend leaving someone behind if you have a choice unless they want to leave. Gendry only has a self-based identity which is centred around being valued for his worth, as a blacksmith.
   

It definitely could be interesting. I would just hope that Gendry finds validation prior to their potential romance because the reverse cinderella would be disappointing to me.

[James Arryn]

Nobody does love quadrilaterals anymore.

:(

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Nobody does love quadrilaterals anymore.

:(

Forget that, Arya/Gendry/Aegon/Jon/Edric Dayne. A woman's harem matters too!

[Reek Havoc]

Forget that, Arya/Gendry/Aegon/Jon/Edric Dayne. A woman's harem matters too!

Throw a potential Edric Storm into that mix! Between him and Aegon, I can't decide which one Arya would love to hate (or hate to love, either way) more. You know, just to keep the Baratheon-style brotherly contempt alive and well...

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Arya x Everyone.

I ship it. :cool4:

[ARYa_Nym]

At best she had a crush on Gendry. I don't see why that means it's endgame. Does the average person only like their first crush for the rest of their lives? No. Hell, I don't even remember who mine was.

There was a poster on here who said that in response to the question of Arya and Gendry being in a romantic relationship GRRM said that they have different paths. She said it in an old romance thread. So that's a no. I know some in response used the different roads line to justify it but that was also a line between Arya and Jon not Arya and Gendry and I think GRRM was just saying no. The problem is that it's hearsay and not like an interview but it's something to keep in mind.

Furthermore, she didn't think of him in ADWD. So far no TWoW mention but we still have the rest of her chapters. It seems to me that he is lessening their connection rather than strengthening it. I don't see how that makes a great love story. In addition, he is changing her. I don't see how one can read the Mercy chapter and then think oh yeah she and Gendry are so going to hook up. Most shippers only have the early chapters to use as evidence. The likelihood for it imo becomes less and less as the series goes on especially as she grows darker and the effect of GRRM's child soldier inspiration becomes more apparent. She is not the same as she was when she was Arry.

EDIT:

Sansa marries Gendry, Arya's heart is broken ?

I don't see why she would be. The way I see it there isn't proof that as of the Mercy chapter Arya still has feelings for Gendry. At least San/San shippers can say she still thinks of him in the Vale and when she thinks of romance or sexual things she is reminded of him. When Arya thinks of either of the two Gendry is a non factor. Arya mentioned Gendry like twice in AFFC and one of which was negative. In ADWD he gets no mention. She doesn't think of him when Brea hooks up with boys, when she is flirting, etc. Of course she is not the same as her sister but I don't see the basis for her being in love with him when she can go a long period where he is irrelevant to her thoughts and when she does think of him it's not anything romantic. The last time she thought anything that could be interpreted as romantic was way back in ASoS. She was 10 then.

GRRM's original plan is interesting because I remember once saying that at least with Jon she: showered him with kisses so she wanted to touch him at one point. Because with Gendry even though physical attraction was there she never desired any kind of intimacy with him even in the child like sense.She blushed in Jon's presence (she never has physical reactions to Gendry). Usually when one has a crush they blush or get butterflies. They want to touch. Even when they're kids. They want to kiss on the cheek, hug, or hold hands. She continues to think of him unlike Gendry. Now I don't think they will be in a romance but if there's anyone she has strong feelings for it's Jon not Gendry. Although I don't think she desires him like that but she clearly loves him. I don't see the love with Gendry. At best she cared but he's irrelevant to her future now. I don't see her making plans to get back to him. She wanted to get back to Jon.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I don't even see how she would meet fAegon, or how that plot line could possibly develop.

I'm down for all the romantic undertones in Gendry and Arya's time together having a pay off. He was certainly very angry about her going missing when Brienne met him in AFFC. (He suddenly had a new found hatred of the Hound):

An old man sat down beside her. “Well, aren’t you a pretty little peach?” His breath smelled near as foul as the dead men in the cages, and his little pig eyes were crawling up and down her. “Does my sweet peach have a name?”

For half a heartbeat she forgot who she was supposed to be. She wasn’t any peach, but she couldn’t be Arya Stark either, not here with some smelly drunk she did not know. “I’m…”

“She’s my sister.” Gendry put a heavy hand on the old man’s shoulder, and squeezed. “Leave her be.”

The man turned, spoiling for a quarrel, but when he saw Gendry’s size he thought better of it. “Your sister, is she? What kind of brother are you? I’d never bring no sister of mine to the Peach, that I wouldn’t.” He got up from the bench and moved off muttering, in search of a new friend.

“Why did you say that?” Arya hopped to her feet. “You’re not my brother.”
“That’s right,” he said angrily. “I’m too bloody lowborn to be kin to m’lady high.”
Arya was taken aback by the fury in his voice. “That’s not the way I meant it.”
“Yes it is.” He sat down on the bench, cradling a cup of wine between his hands. “Go away. I want to drink this wine in peace. Then maybe I’ll go find that black-haired girl and ring her bell for her.”

“But…”
“I said, go away. M’lady.”
Arya whirled and left him there. A stupid bullheaded bastard boy, that’s all he is. He could ring all the bells he wanted, it was nothing to her.

If it means nothing to you Arya, then why are you so pissed? (Even funnier here, is that Gendry is threatening to go fuck his sister to make Arya jealous and angry which is hilarious in the context of ASOIAF)

And Arya doesn't let it go. She's permanently angry over it and keeps bring it up through her remaining time with him:

“Why don’t you go back to Stoney Sept and ring that girl’s stupid bells?”

Gendry ignored that.

Gendry gets pretty jealous as well, like when Ned and Arya kinda hit off. He acts like one the old muppets in the balcony seats and keeps interrupting the conversation:

Poor Ned seemed to grow more miserable with every mile. “When I wear my helm, the rain beats against the steel and gives me headaches,” he complained. “But when I take it off, my hair gets soaked and sticks to my face and in my mouth.”

“You have a knife,” Gendry suggested. “If your hair annoys you so much, shave your bloody head.”

He doesn’t like Ned. The squire seemed nice enough to Arya; maybe a little shy, but good- natured…

“You have a House?” That was stupid; he was a squire, of course he had a House. “Who are you?”

“My lady?” Ned looked embarrassed. “I’m Edric Dayne, the… the Lord of Starfall.”

Behind them, Gendry groaned. “Lords and ladies,” he proclaimed in a disgusted tone. Arya plucked a withered crabapple off a passing branch and whipped it at him, bouncing it off his thick bull head. “Ow,” he said. “That hurt.” He felt the skin above his eye. “What kind of lady throws crabapples at people?”

“The bad kind,” said Arya, suddenly contrite. She turned back to Ned. “I’m sorry I didn’t know who you were. My lord” …

“That’s not so. He loved my lady mother.”
“I’m sure he did, my lady, but -”
“She was the only one he loved.”
“He must have found that bastard under a cabbage leaf, then,” Gendry said behind them.
Arya wished she had another crabapple to bounce off his face. “My father had honor,” she said angrily. “And we weren’t talking to you anyway.

Gendry is obviously getting jealous because "m'lady" has found herself a proper lord to flirt with instead of him.

I'm just going to leave this here:

"She climbed to the roof and peeked down. Gendry was beating out a breastplate. When he worked, nothing existed for him but metal, bellows, fire. The hammer was like part of his arm. She watched the play of muscles in his chest and listened to the steel music he made. He’s strong, she thought.”

Arya and Gendry flirt and wrestle on the floor of the smithy, and their clothes get torn in the process:

“You can still make swords if you want,” said Arya. “You can make them for my brother Robb when we get to Riverrun.”

“Riverrun.” Gendry put the hammer down and looked at her. “You look different now. Like a proper little girl.”

“I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns.”

“Nice, though. A nice oak tree.” He stepped closer, and sniffed at her. “You even smell nice for a change.”

“You don’t. You stink.” Arya shoved him back against the anvil and made to run, but Gendry caught her arm. She stuck a foot between his legs and tripped him, but he yanked her down with him, and they rolled across the floor of the smithy. He was very strong, but she was quicker. Every time he tried to hold her still she wriggled free and punched him. Gendry only laughed at the blows, which made her mad. He finally caught both her wrists in one hand and started to tickle her with the other, so Arya slammed her knee between his legs, and wrenched free. Both of them were covered in dirt, and one sleeve was tom. on her stupid acorn dress. “I bet I don’t look so nice now,” she shouted.

Which Tom O' Sevens to sing with a wink and a nod:

Tom was singing when they returned to the hall.

My featherbed is deep and soft, and there I’ll lay you down,
I’ll dress you all in yellow silk, and on your head a crown.
For you shall be my lady love, and I shall be your lord.
I’ll always keep you warm and safe, and guard you with my sword.

Harwin took one look at them and burst out laughing, and Anguy smiled one of his stupid freckly smiles and said, “Are we certain this one is a highborn lady?”

But Lem Lemoncloak gave Gendry a clout alongside the head. “You want to fight, fight with me! She’s a girl, and half your age! You keep your hands off o’ her, you hear me?”

“I started it” said Arya. “Gendry was just talking.”

“Leave the boy, Lem,” said Harwin. “Arya did start it, I have no doubt. She was much the same at Winterfell.”

Tom winked at her as he sang:

And how she smiled and how she laughed, the maiden of the tree.

She spun away and said to him, no featherbed for me.
I’ll wear a gown of golden leaves, and bind my hair with grass,

But you can be my forest love, and me your forest lass.

The romantic undertones are only further enhanced when Arya dreams of reenacting a outlaw-in-love with Gendry before she departs for Braavos: (Forest love, forest lass, ya know)

Anguy would teach her to use a bow, and she could ride with Gendry and be an outlaw, like Wenda the White Fawn in the songs.

But that was just stupid, like something Sansa might dream. Hot Pie and Gendry had left her just as soon as they could.

Gendry hadn't left. Gendry was likely the voice calling out her name when she ran off. Gendry is also a much angrier person in AFFC and has a grudge against the Hound, who he believes her to whatever terrible fate: Ramsay, the Lannisters, whoever, she met. She certainly thinks of him AFFC.

GRRM maybe cruel, but he also can be a hopeless romantic, and considering his proximity to Lady Stoneheart, Nymeria, the Green Men and other important plot points, I'm betting on a reunion with a future romance strongly implied before the end, or even a kiss. He did after all, having a 13 year old Dany literally have sex with Drogo multiple times on page.

[Bendubz]

Gendry/Arya/Sandor

Arya/Gendry/Sansa

Gendry/Arya/Edric (Dayne)

Bran/Meera/Jon

These are the only options left really

[Petyr's Little Finger]

I don't think we will see a romantic storyline with Arya. I do think we will get a heartwarming reunion between some of the Stark siblings.

[ARYa_Nym]

Gendry/Arya/Sandor

Arya/Gendry/Sansa

Gendry/Arya/Edric (Dayne)

Bran/Meera/Jon

These are the only options left really

I don't think so. After all who would have predicted that her first sexual experience would be with

Raff

I doubt she'll have romance but I don't think he really has to link her with who we knew before in her storyline especially since it's likely that she'll spend most of the story going forward away from them and around other people.

[arabian]

Coming in a bit after the fact... one of the things I haven't seen mentioned here that I thought of immediately when I read the letter (again, a bit after the fact) is how GRRM seemed to have transferred the Jon/Arya stuff onto Ygritte (and I suppose Alys and Val--but I don't remember those characters as well I admit) and Gendry. And that is something that I see as a sign that eventually Gendry and Arya will meet again and that their story isn't over.

It seemed to me that when GRRM changed the idea of having a romance between Arya and Jon, he simply didn't completely excise the romantic undertones of that idea which is why one can find hints and used that to transfer that sense of those feelings to their other love interests. In Jon's case with Ygritte it was a way to show the depth of his feelings as comparing them to how deeply he did love Arya. And in Arya's case because younger siblings do have romantic crushes of sorts on favored siblings (often saying they want to marry them when older and what-not), to show her budding attraction to Gendry.

To me, by having Jon compare Arya to Ygritte and Arya compare Jon to Gendry (as she does quite frequently as well--I don't have the quotes handy, but they are elsewhere on the forum), GRRM was transferring that romance that was originally envisioned in that outline from Jon/Arya to Jon and his potential love interests and Arya to her love interest... Gendry.

[sleath56]

I wouldn't take any of the outline seriously, you guys. I doubt GRRM and his publisher would have released this if it was going to spoil anything. (The blacked out paragraph)

P.S. Nevertheless, I seriously hope there is no Arya romance subplot, or at least a Arya/Gendry. I've seen plenty enough of that ship in (bad) fanfics.

[arabian]

Well, I seriously hope there is no Jon/Arya because I never really saw it as romantic until the outline came out, and at that point, I saw it as a leftover from the original outline and then (as I stated above) used as a gateway of sorts to Jon/Ygritte, other possible romances, and Arya/Gendry. And personally, I seriously, seriously do want to see Arya and Gendry.

Also, "that ship" in fanfics (bad or otherwise) is not what GRRM is going to do in the books and I don't quite understand anyone judging "that ship" or any other on fanfics when one would imagine that any fan of these books considers GRRM a much more talented writer than your general fanficcer found on the internet. As well, I do believe that he has certainly lain enough groundwork for Arya and Gendry for it to make sense.

I'm well aware that non-fans of the pair don't see it, but I always have. On the other hand, frankly before I got deeper into the fandom, I never even remotely saw anything with Jon and Arya at all. I saw nothing between the two in the slightest beyond a brother and sister who were close because, in different ways, they felt outside the inner circle at Winterfell. However, I certainly saw groundwork being lain for Gendry and Arya as a future romance as just a casual reader who only read the books once. That was obvious as day to me. And I loved the potential of it, especially going back to Robert and Ned wanting their son and their daughter to marry... it just wasn't supposed to be Sansa and Joffrey (not his son), but rather Arya and Gendry.

There are just so many little (and big) threads pointing to Arya and Gendry down the line that I always saw. Obviously, I could be wrong, but it's what I read in the text as a casual reader and points made by more indepth-reading from others have only further increased my belief. But we'll see. With GRRM, anything can happen.

:shrugs: But to each their own.

[chrisdaw]

The triangle became Tyrion, Sansa and Sandor. Sansa is Arya and Sandor Jon in the comparison. Sandor's KG or Warrior's Sons vows will take the place of the NW vows.