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WHEEL OF TIME officially optioned for television


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14 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

A better thing to do would be to try and blend it with the quest for the Lion Throne. Maybe have the Bowl be located somewhere in Andor. This does complicate things with the Seanchan and Mat meeting Tuon, though.

 

23 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

and btw - hell yes, I am a fan of doing something more interesting with the Bowl of Winds plot line. Honest question, do the Sea Folk really matter in the grand scheme of things? Could they be cut entirely? I get that they are good flavor, but do they actually DO anything?

It's been so long since I've read the books, so I'm probably mixing saidin with saidar, but didn't the Nyneave and Elayne make multiple trips/quests south?

Nevermind. Just read through the wiki. In my memory, they went to Ebou Dar multiple times, but that just because they(mainly Matt) floundered there for multiple books. :)

I'll live with the Bowl of Winds sub plot if we can skip the circus, though...

Regardless, I have high hopes for this. I just pray it falls close to the GoT spectrum of quality rather than Shannara.

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Oh fuck yeah, skip that circus shit. I can't even remember where they were traveling to but ... ugh. I guess I don't mind if they keep it, just edit it waaaaaaay the fuck down. Do circusy things in the background. It might be a good way to showcase the weaves of magic though - show how Elayne sees the tightrope and how others see it. Actually a good place to put that type of low impact magic. Also good for demonstrating Birgita's prowess with the bow .. damnit. I may have talked myself into keeping it, but still - cut it waaaay down and don't fuss about Elayne's pants.

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On 4/21/2017 at 11:57 AM, Gertrude said:

True. I think people around here have some fondness for it, but are aware of it's faults. WoT boards would definitely have a different opinion. Of course, I am one of those rubbing my hands together and hoping they cut it into a manageable story. And I'm also hoping they give the characters more dimension. It's a good story with interesting world building elements. I've often wished that the story were in the hands of a different writer to see what they could make of it.

I love the series but agree it needs to be cut way down. They don't have to cut much out, but just the lingering in certain areas. 

I think the entire series will need to be looked at and edited in a way where certain characters (especially Aes Sedai) are consolidated. 

I don't think it should be as simple as 1 or 2 books per season, but rather a re-jigging to make sure that the arcs are properly covered and concluded. 

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain! 

 

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We keep talking about the plot, what can be cut or re-arranged. But what about the other stuff. This series, to be faithful to the books, would require a big budget for special effects, sets, makeup and costumes. How will they do the Trollocs? The Ogier? All the channeling visuals?

For the Trollocs, I would be ok if they made them at human height, but the costumes still included animals heads, and be bulky enough to still make them terrifying.

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@Corvinus  We talked a bit about it on previous page.  I kinda feel like it'll be missing something if they go low-magic on screen.  Early on you could probably get by with it for awhile... but doing trollocs, mydraal, etc. without the help of CGI would still require a hefty budget for it not to look cheap (imo).  Shadar Logoth and the mist could probably be done low budget, as well as the Ways (since all you need is a black backdrop).  You could save a chunk of budget to do the Eye of the World scene right.  After that when the channeling really picks up (particularly once the gals get to Tar Valon), I think it would be more difficult without taking the story in a different direction.  

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54 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

I kinda feel like it'll be missing something if they go low-magic on screen.  Early on you could probably get by with it for awhile... but doing trollocs, mydraal, etc. without the help of CGI would still require a hefty budget for it not to look cheap (imo).

Personally I'd prefer that it looked cheap and unrealistic but ambitious, rather than cutting out/down everything they can't afford to do movie-quality and making a show that's beautiful but small, with many elements of the books left out for budget reasons.

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3 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I imagine the magic and creatures would be cut significantly and used for emphasis. I'm not imagining this on the level of GoT, but rather Magicians or the Expanse. I'm not sure I see any major issues. Granted, I don't know where the money goes on a production, but Trollocs seem to lend themselves to a practical effect solution rather than CGI. Darkness and glimpses would go a long way to sell them, Cut the draghar. The Seanchan get a few tor-raken. I don't see why they need to be shown close up, we just need to know that they exist and that's their advantage in battle.

Sure, go all out for Dumai Wells, etc. Otherwise, the magic is rather mundane and practical, no? We won't see Moiraine use her illusion in Baerlon, save it for more impactful moments. I don't need to see the weaves of magic to know that's how it works. Maybe I'm forgetting exactly how much magic is used and how often, but in general, the effects are rather mundane or lends itself to practical effects, no? Obviously some of those scenes are going to be budget busters, but I think those are limited. If it does get into it's last seasons where the magic and effects are more numerous, then it's justified that extra money, I'd say.

(and I'm sure I butchered some of those spellings and names and I don't care)

and btw - hell yes, I am a fan of doing something more interesting with the Bowl of Winds plot line. Honest question, do the Sea Folk really matter in the grand scheme of things? Could they be cut entirely? I get that they are good flavor, but do they actually DO anything?

A lot of the magic is using Air to move something, etc. but a lot is not. The question is do you show weaves. If you don't, it feels like "magic" and that takes away a distinct flavor of the world. I think that's the CGI challenge. But the bigger cost will be locations. Early on, there are few, but once you have to do places like Tar Valon, Rhuidean, etc.... you're really going to have to shell out a lot of money. All said, this has the potential to be a very expensive show. I hope they fund it, and I hope that means they work hard to make it good in other ways.

 

As for the Bowl: you can remove the Sea Folk from that story. Make it so Elayne and Nynaeve have to figure it out on their own. The Sea Folk's ultimate role was entirely offscreen, where apparently they used the Bowl to keep the weather stable for the Last Battle despite the Dark One trying throw out massive storms. It is a detail that can be excised without a problem, but there are two ways in which I think their absence can hurt:

1) They bring much needed racial diversity. While Tairens, Altarans, Domani and maybe even Malkieri, Saldeans and Shienarans can easily be cast as non-white, the Sea Folk are explicitly completely non-white. I guess if they truly have a mixed casting, they don't have to worry. After all, Elayne says the first Queen of Andor was as dark as any of the Sea Folk, so why not have a truly mixed race casting. In story, there's enough history to support a very mixed population in terms of skin color everywhere.

2) Mat releases Sea Folk damane from Ebou Dar while he kidnaps Tuon and makes away. I feel this is a fairly big moment. It gives them the cover they need to sneak out unnoticed, and it is a major moment for Mat. If they remove the Sea Folk, they should come up with an alternative bunch of channelers for him to help.

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1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said:

The question is do you show weaves.

Only sometimes, when it's particularly relevant, eg someone learning how to weave something. To most people, the weaves are invisible (and nobody can see both saidar and saidin weaves), so they should only be depicted when the scene is showing the perspective of a channeller.

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20 minutes ago, felice said:

Only sometimes, when it's particularly relevant, eg someone learning how to weave something. To most people, the weaves are invisible (and nobody can see both saidar and saidin weaves), so they should only be depicted when the scene is showing the perspective of a channeller.

I agree, but that needs to be handled carefully. Take Rand and Lanfear fighting in the docks of Cairhein. You'll need to show both saidin and saidar weaves. They'll need to look different. 

I think one thing they could do is make saidin weaves slightly laced with darkness, till they get to the cleansing. 

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See, i'm not entirely convinced that we need to see the weaves. If we do, then sparingly. Like felice said, when someone is learning or perhaps occasionally from their perspective when the magic isn't showy. If the magic has an effect - show the effect. I think that's money better spent.

Good point about saidin and saidar looking different. It would emphasize the taint and the fight to use it,

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1 hour ago, felice said:

Only sometimes, when it's particularly relevant, eg someone learning how to weave something. To most people, the weaves are invisible (and nobody can see both saidar and saidin weaves), so they should only be depicted when the scene is showing the perspective of a channeller.

Pretty much confined to when Aes Sedai are together and doing magic with no one else around. Any other situation the magic can mostly be seen from the perspective of a male AS or a muggle (forgive me), so just the effect.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Pretty much confined to when Aes Sedai are together and doing magic with no one else around. Any other situation the magic can mostly be seen from the perspective of a male AS or a muggle (forgive me), so just the effect.

Not always. When Nynaeve fight Moghedien, or Rand fights Lanfear, a lot of what's going on isn't obvious. They could change this, of course, but I think that might just make some of these fights more run of the mill than it needs to be. 

 

Sure, in big set pieces like Dumai's Wells and the Tower, show the giant explosions and fire and lightning. But other situations will demand weaves, and they should have it.

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Fionwe, out of curiosity, what type of things do you think we really need to see the weaves for it to be effective? Do you think there needs to be weaves shown in big scenes like Dumai's Wells, or just the effects?

eta: I was digging around a bit and may have answered my own question. Nyneave v Moghedien in Tel'aran'rhiod, specifically thinking of the Panarch's Palace. The text describes it  something like 'anyone who can't see flows would see two women staring at each other'. Since this is a fight between two channelers of the same sex and in TAR to boot, I can see this as a place to show off the weaves of magic. They would have to make up a bunch of action if they didn't. Not that that's not a viable solution, but I like the battle of wills better. And I think slicing through weaves and shields is a lot of the invisible battles we see with saidar. The problem then becomes when to show the flows and when not to. You can't show them all the time, so somehow they need to be very clear why it's happening when we do see them.

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1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

Fionwe, out of curiosity, what type of things do you think we really need to see the weaves for it to be effective? Do you think there needs to be weaves shown in big scenes like Dumai's Wells, or just the effects?

eta: I was digging around a bit and may have answered my own question. Nyneave v Moghedien in Tel'aran'rhiod, specifically thinking of the Panarch's Palace. The text describes it  something like 'anyone who can't see flows would see two women staring at each other'. Since this is a fight between two channelers of the same sex and in TAR to boot, I can see this as a place to show off the weaves of magic. They would have to make up a bunch of action if they didn't. Not that that's not a viable solution, but I like the battle of wills better. And I think slicing through weaves and shields is a lot of the invisible battles we see with saidar. The problem then becomes when to show the flows and when not to. You can't show them all the time, so somehow they need to be very clear why it's happening when we do see them.

I think events that take place in TAR will have visual effects just to make TAR look way different. So showing the weaves there would make sense.

A weave as a shield, or to cut someone off from the source is the effect as well as the weave, so I guess if one takes the approach that you generally only show the effect of the weaves then when the weave is the effect then you show the weave. When the effect is able to shown physically without the weaves then you show the weaves only when it serves a thematic or narrative purpose.

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12 hours ago, Starkess said:

This is making me want to re-read the books!

Me too...

I guess there should be a reason I allow a whole bookshelf to be dominated by these volumes.

/flips open book 1

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13 hours ago, Gertrude said:

See, i'm not entirely convinced that we need to see the weaves. If we do, then sparingly. Like felice said, when someone is learning or perhaps occasionally from their perspective when the magic isn't showy. If the magic has an effect - show the effect. I think that's money better spent.

Good point about saidin and saidar looking different. It would emphasize the taint and the fight to use it,

This!

Maybe once in a while we get a POV of a character who can channel and you see some weaves. For the most part though, basic special effects should be able to complete most of the magic. Lightening storms and such shouldn't be so hard. 

I agree the Trollacs and Ogier will be a challenge as they appear early in the story where the series may not have hit its heights yet and be on a more restrictive budgets. With that being said, there are some good monsters and zombies on not very high budget shows that look ok. A mixture of make up and camera work may do the job just fine. 

Most of the very large scale battles come later in the series which should be helpful and they can cut out some of the Seachen creatures as they aren't so relevant to the plot. 

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I agree that a mix of showing weaves only when the plot demands and then show other effects is the best way to go. I would like to see weaves when Egwene and Nynaeve start learning. But then stop showing them when somebody is moving an object with Air, or make the ground explode etc. 

Another challenge is showing the act of a character opening himself/herself to the One Power. It is a major part of Rand's character - his struggle with the taint, and with saidin in general, when he tries to the OP. If you don't use some kind of visual ques, at least once in awhile, all you're going to have is an actor that is struggling to pass stool. And using the OP is a major part of Nynaeve's development, too.

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