Light, sexy period romance

[Lyanna Stark]

7 hours ago, Contrarius+ said:

I really liked how awkward the sex was during most of that book. It wasn't supposed to be erotic -- and by golly, it wasn't!

I know, right? Grant really does awkward extremely well. The heroine's description of it was both tragic and hilarious as well.

 

13 hours ago, Mandy said:

There is also a fine line between sex being in a book, implied sex and straight up porn.  How do you guys rate these things?

It really depends on whether it is a part of the story/character development or not. Strangely, A Lady Awakened technically has a lot of sex, but it's extremely awkward, mechanical and not in the least meant to be romantic or enticing, but at the same time it's important for character development (since it is central to the plot). Sex in erotica is more specifically put there to entice and titillate, and that's different. It can also differ depending on whose perspective you get, for instance.

I prefer implied sex (LOL, that's an awesome description "implied sex") over badly written sex. Unfortunately I feel some writers (sorry Kinsale) ends up with very traditional PiV sex which just would be better by implied sex. At least then you don't have to disagree with the writer.

Grant totally overturned the standard trope that as soon as the heroine gets a feel of the Mighty Wang of Lovin' she'll be all over that like a bad rash, but in this case it totally wasn't! The part where the hero thinks of the heroine's hands as "dead fish" is hilariously awkward. Also this:

Quote

In its place welled up the same dismay she'd known on her first viewing, some ten months past, of a naked man. Whose idea of good design was this? Why those awkward angles, and what could be the necessity for all that hair? If one believed, as the Bible and the Greek myths had it, that man had been created first and woman after, then one much conclude there had been some dramatic improvement in the process following that amateurish first attempt.

So yes, definitely not a bodice ripper kind of story. The heroine is so amazingly staid and logical, but without being actually cold.

[Chaldanya]

7 hours ago, Contrarius+ said:

I really liked how awkward the sex was during most of that book. It wasn't supposed to be erotic -- and by golly, it wasn't!

I LOVED that aspect because it adds a touch of reality to the proceedings.  More and more I'm looking for that little twist that elevates the romance novel above. She's hot and innocent, he's hot and not innocent, they can't control themselves, bump uglies and then profess undying love after some mild angst or peril.  Don't get me wrong they have their place but sometimes lets switch it up a bit.

I think paranormal romance tends towards erotica rather than romance and I'm OK with that cause for the most part I skim read and start skipping the truly purple prose (petals of womanhood and pulsing member and the like).  But it's all a matter of branding tbh, the people that read the genre's have a fair idea of what's what.

N

[Lyanna Stark]

45 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I am really bad about British accents, but Blade's accent really seems off sometimes.  Like... just the things he says don't seem like they quite fit.  I know she kind of tried to explain any weirdness like this away by saying he had an accent that was both a mixture of high and low class, but still...  I could be wrong here.

But yeah this is fun stuff LMAO

He's speaking cockney, or at least a London accent. It's a bit over the top sometimes, but she's sort of gone for mostly writing it phonetically so I can see the idea she is using (even tho she misses the mark with it sometimes, she is not British after all).  I mean, you can listen to Adele speak, watch "Eastenders" or "My Fair Lady", learn to drop you H and say "How now brown cow". This is a quick and dirty tutorial to some of the sounds. This is better tho, it also has Michael Caine in it.

 

Will's accent more moderate, which I think works better. He was supposedly born in Scotland as well before he ended up in the London slums, so I guess his non-native status is supposed to be distinctive from Blade being an actual old-skool Eastender. (Not that Whitechapel was the only rookery/slum during the supposed time period, which based on the clothing especially in book 3 seems to be somewhere around 1870-1880.)

[Contrarius+]

I just finished Flowers From the Storm by Laura Kinsale. The story was intriguing, with plenty of twists and turns and genuine suffering and moral quandaries and so on. And Kinsale certainly was dedicated to depicting the aftereffects of a stroke, though I thought at some points the recovery was too quick. But somehow the writing itself didn't really grab me. In part I think it was the heroine's Quaker dialect, which was stiff and off-putting, but the prose itself didn't pull me in. Lots of interesting components to the story, though.

[Lyanna Stark]

On 2016-05-27 at 10:20 AM, Chaldanya said:

I think paranormal romance tends towards erotica rather than romance and I'm OK with that cause for the most part I skim read and start skipping the truly purple prose (petals of womanhood and pulsing member and the like).  But it's all a matter of branding tbh, the people that read the genre's have a fair idea of what's what.

N

Implied sex >>> purple prose sex tbh. That is the Worst.

How are you getting on with McMaster btw? (I feel like there are more McMaster readers out there now. I have had a bad influence on you all, hahaha!!)

On 2016-05-28 at 7:03 AM, Contrarius+ said:

I just finished Flowers From the Storm by Laura Kinsale. The story was intriguing, with plenty of twists and turns and genuine suffering and moral quandaries and so on. And Kinsale certainly was dedicated to depicting the aftereffects of a stroke, though I thought at some points the recovery was too quick. But somehow the writing itself didn't really grab me. In part I think it was the heroine's Quaker dialect, which was stiff and off-putting, but the prose itself didn't pull me in. Lots of interesting components to the story, though.

Flowers From the Storm always comes up really highly in all ratings of romance novels ever. I sometimes disagree with the ratings tho, and I wonder if this is because romance novels can age quickly. It feels that now we are in the age of Milan, Dare, Cecilia Grant and a few others who are really highlighting women's agency and often their very real struggles in a society far more unequal than our own.

From the ones I've read, Kinsale is sharp and on point with her characters, she is pretty good with historical accuracy, there is very little out of place modern language usage, but I feel her romances fall into the super experienced rake eventually doing a number on an innocent maiden/spinster. She's actually better with the parts that aren't specifically romance! Her plots are as you say twisty and turny and the characters' moral issues are often well described. Ah well, you can't have it all, can you.

I can report that Cecilia Grant's prequel novella to A Lady Awakened (shame with the lame title tbh) was also pretty good, even tho the hero was the same category of annoying as the heroine in A Lady Awakened. They are supposedly siblings, so it kinda works out.

[Contrarius+]

1 hour ago, Lyanna Stark said:

Flowers From the Storm always comes up really highly in all ratings of romance novels ever. I sometimes disagree with the ratings tho, and I wonder if this is because romance novels can age quickly. It feels that now we are in the age of Milan, Dare, Cecilia Grant and a few others who are really highlighting women's agency and often their very real struggles in a society far more unequal than our own.

From the ones I've read, Kinsale is sharp and on point with her characters, she is pretty good with historical accuracy, there is very little out of place modern language usage, but I feel her romances fall into the super experienced rake eventually doing a number on an innocent maiden/spinster. She's actually better with the parts that aren't specifically romance! Her plots are as you say twisty and turny and the characters' moral issues are often well described. Ah well, you can't have it all, can you.

I can report that Cecilia Grant's prequel novella to A Lady Awakened (shame with the lame title tbh) was also pretty good, even tho the hero was the same category of annoying as the heroine in A Lady Awakened. They are supposedly siblings, so it kinda works out.

Yeah, I read the Kinsale because it was on that NPR list that you or somebody else linked to. The rake in this case was quite severely handicapped and in serious danger of being sent permanently to the madhouse, so he needed a lot of saving, but yes, the characters were of that general type (in case you haven't read it). ;-)

On the Grant -- I read the first three of the Blackshear books a couple of years ago, but I don't think I've read the prequel. I liked the first one best, I think.

I also read a couple of Grace Burrowes in the past week -- first a reread of The Captive, many parts of which I like very much (setting aside the ridiculous villain and the strong whiff of Magic Penis). If you haven't read that one, it has not one but TWO -- count them TWO -- MCs with tortured (literally tortured) pasts to recover from. Hurt/comfort flying in all directions. And one of the villains (the nonridiculous one) of this book gets to be the hero of the second book (which I didn't actually like as much as the first, but it was a very bold move, given what he had done to the hero of this one). So The Captive might be worth checking out if you haven't read it. I also read the first book from one of her other series, Thomas, but that was just ehhh. MCs were nice enough -- just not gripping. But Burrowes is another writer who does heroes who are decent men at heart, or trying to be, with no rape fantasies or rakes in sight.

[Chaldanya]

5 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

Implied sex >>> purple prose sex tbh. That is the Worst.

How are you getting on with McMaster btw? (I feel like there are more McMaster readers out there now. I have had a bad influence on you all, hahaha!!)

I have many thoughts

HERE

[Contrarius+]

I've just started Lord of Scoundrels, and I must say that I'm loving the narrative voice. It reminds me a bit of LMB in its sardonic pithiness.

 

"His dark face was harsh and hard, the face of Beelzebub himself. In Dain’s case, the book could be judged accurately by the cover, for he was dark and hard inside as well. His was a Dartmoor soul, where the wind blew fierce and the rain beat down upon grim, grey rocks, and where the pretty green patches of ground turned out to be mires that could suck down an ox.

Anyone with half a brain could see the signs posted: “ABANDON ALL HOPE, YE WHO ENTER HERE” or, more to the point, “DANGER. QUICKSAND”

Equally to the point, the creature before him was a lady, and no signs had to be posted about her to warn him off. Ladies, in his dictionary, were listed under Plague, Pestilence, and Famine."

[Contrarius+]

On 5/11/2016 at 2:31 PM, Lyanna Stark said:

@Chaldanya

Loretta Chase's "Lord of Scoundrels": Another massive arsehole hero who is a big, dumb crybaby of the most epic proportions imaginable. I was amazed he didn't have every STD under the sun, since he spent 95% of his waking hours with prostitutes. The heroine at one point shot him, and that was the highlight of the novel. After that, it went downhill. I only read this one cos it came highly recommended from romance novels rec sites, but I have no idea what crack those people are smoking. This is the WORST, and just offensive and incomprehensible. There is a glove scene (yes, glove, not love) which is supposed to be the Hottest Thing since Really Hot Tea, and it is just....WTF. Big Whiny Crybaby speaks in Foreign and the heroine just loses her mind. Honestly, she shouldn't marry this dude, she should get him into the Whambulance and herself onto a fast ship to the Americas. Yes.

Lyanna, Lyanna, Lyanna. You are just wrong, SO wrong.

I just now finished this. Loved it. Yes, it's over the top. Yes, it's sometimes unrealistic. Yes, he's a big whiny crybaby. It's great.

I mean, cmon. Our Heroine gets to rip off Our Hero's shirt instead of the other way around. Our Heroine gets to lust after Our Hero and calmly acknowledge -- and discuss with her own grandmother! -- that it's lust, without feeling shame (mostly just feeling irritation). Our Heroine gets to beat up the bad guy instead of our Hero riding to the rescue -- all while Our Hero nurses his own sick bastard child back to health. Our Heroine gets to SHOOT Our Hero.  It's got intelligent banter and wit from beginning to end. What more could you ask for?

Yes, the story does rather perpetuate the harmful "He's not really bad, he's just a fixer-upper" romance stereotype. But I loved most everything about it.

Quote

 

"She was falling in love with him— in spite of everything and against her better judgment— more slowly, yes, but just as inexorably as she’d fallen in lust with him.

"That didn’t mean, however, that she wasn’t strongly tempted to do him a violent injury. When it came to being exasperating, Dain was a genius.

"By Friday, she was debating the relative merits of putting another bullet through him and trying to decide which portion of his anatomy she could most easily live without.

"By Saturday, she’d decided that his brain was probably the most dispensable."

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

"But then, Jessica thought, Dain did not handle his emotional problems well. He had only three methods for dealing with “bother”: knock it down, frighten it away, or buy it off. When the methods didn’t work, he was at a loss. And so he had a tantrum."

 

 

 

 

I've gotta  check out more Loretta Chase.

[Contrarius+]

Sadly I cannot compare, since I have never read either Twilight or 50 Shades. But think of LMB writing a historical romance with a big whiny crybaby of a hero and Cordelia for a heroine, and you won't be all that far off.

[Contrarius+]

I know what you mean -- especially when the heroine takes the hero seriously. But one of the great things about this book is that they're equals. The first part of the book has a great deal of the hero being gobsmacked and trailing after the heroine like a puppy, and not knowing what to do about it. Although he puts up an arrogant front, he's completely lost when it comes to genuine emotion. And she mostly seduces him rather than the other way around. And the heroine is a good bit more intelligent both intellectually and emotionally than the hero is. So she's really the one with all the power.

[Lyanna Stark]

11 hours ago, Contrarius+ said:

Lyanna, Lyanna, Lyanna. You are just wrong, SO wrong.

I just now finished this. Loved it. Yes, it's over the top. Yes, it's sometimes unrealistic. Yes, he's a big whiny crybaby. It's great.

I mean, cmon. Our Heroine gets to rip off Our Hero's shirt instead of the other way around. Our Heroine gets to lust after Our Hero and calmly acknowledge -- and discuss with her own grandmother! -- that it's lust, without feeling shame (mostly just feeling irritation). Our Heroine gets to beat up the bad guy instead of our Hero riding to the rescue -- all while Our Hero nurses his own sick bastard child back to health. Our Heroine gets to SHOOT Our Hero.  It's got intelligent banter and wit from beginning to end. What more could you ask for?

Yes, the story does rather perpetuate the harmful "He's not really bad, he's just a fixer-upper" romance stereotype. But I loved most everything about it.

 

I've gotta  check out more Loretta Chase.

Hahahahaha!! Well, to be fair, I thought it was alright up to when she shot him. At that point, it could have stopped.

Besides, I really hated that this sensible woman went for this huge, annoying man-child, who seemed to spend 90% trying to get Random Disease from prostitutes. I also strongly disliked the sexism inherent in how Dain's ex was treated. The "speaking in foreign" didn't really do it for me either. I don't think I am a Loretta Chase kinda person, really. Emotionally stunted man-children who just needs a (non-sexually experienced) woman to sort them out is something that really grinds my gears, so there's that.

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

I've never EVER been attracted to assholes, so I just HATE it when a guy tells a girl, "You know you want me" or some crap.  Frankly, telling me that will ensure that I never touch you, dumbass.  I expect the same from my heroines.  This has always bothered me about Kate Daniels and Curran - and is happens again in Hidden Legacy between Nevada and Mad Rogan, though thankfully it's a little more dignified a relationship later in the series with Kate.  Sigh.

Yup, that is really annoying and overbearing.

In those cases, I'd really like one of the heroines to put the hero on the spot and say that it's a total dick move, that it shows he has the emotional range of a tea spoon and to stop being a whiny man-child. But that rarely happens.

I guess that is why I like Milan's stuff most of the time. The heroes are no whiny arseholes, ever.

[Contrarius+]

8 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

Besides, I really hated that this sensible woman went for this huge, annoying man-child, who seemed to spend 90% trying to get Random Disease from prostitutes.

Yeah, but she *told* him he was a huge, annoying man-child -- and thought so in the narrative as well. I can enjoy man-children just fine so long as they get called on it.

Yesterday I read one of Chase's novellas, The Mad Earl's Bride. I still enjoyed it and the narrative voice, but the plot was dumber than the scoundrel book and it was short enough that many things were too rushed. And the characters weren't as much fun. It has Dain and Jess from the scoundrel as minor characters, though I didn't realize it was part of the same series.

[Lyanna Stark]

On 2016-06-04 at 4:16 PM, Contrarius+ said:

Yeah, but she *told* him he was a huge, annoying man-child -- and thought so in the narrative as well. I can enjoy man-children just fine so long as they get called on it.

 

Argh, you make me want to re-read it just to see if I can fillet it further, and we can have a glorious "man-child" argument about Dain.  Who is a big man-child. I also don't think he apologised about being a big horrible man-child. I mean sure, she shot him, but that wasn't *nearly* enough.

 

 

[Callan S.]

Does that mean there are women-childs as well?

[Lyanna Stark]

3 hours ago, Callan S. said:

Does that mean there are women-childs as well?

In romance novels? Very likely, although in my experience (that plastic carrier bag with Harlequin novels a friend lent me at 14) and according the experts in "Beyond Heaving Bosoms", they generally fall into the categories Too Stupid to Live and the Ingenue with the sexual experience of a house fern.