Nerevanin Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I think she would and I think that her hatred for Tyrion doesn't have anything (or very little) to do with him being a dwarf. She hates him because of the prophecy and a little brother will kill her. That's why she hates him, fears him and blames him for everything. It's interesting that she never even thought about the possibility that the valonquar can be Jaime (and I think it is Jaime or that it is Tyrion but the prophecy would never happen, if Cersei didn't know about it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbent_Unbroken Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 If Tyrion wasn't a deformed dwarf, I could see Tywin treating him better. He would still be cold to him, but he wouldn't be as outright abusive to him as he is in canon. Cersei would still be paranoid about him though, given the valonqar prophecy though there is that sexual component in play. Gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 whe would hate him less but hate him none the less. I think Cersei is somewhat of a Lannister eliteist in that only Golden haired Lannisters are worthy of power and worship etc.. Tyrion as a dwarf, in and of itself, was and is a slap in the face of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 She would hate him because he killed her mother. She'd hate him because he's the Volaquar. Even without that, I doubt she'd have the affection for him she has for Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Depends? Does the Maggy prophecy still exist? I think she would have treated him much better at first largely because Tywin would havbe treated Tyrion better. But once Jaime joined the KG, she probably would have become bitter that Tyrion would inherit the Rock instead of her and hated him for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Let's assume Tyrion's mother still dies giving birth to him, and assume Tyrion's personality is as intact as could be expected. Would Cersei, and for that matter, Tywin, despise him to the point of conspiring to kill him?I ask because I wonder how much of their hatred for him was prejudice towards dwarfs as opposed to who Tyrion was. It's two parts: He is a dwarf, and he "killed" their mother. She'd still judge him for the latter. The main difference would be that Tyrion would not be so scorned by the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime4Brienne Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'd say she'd still hate him because what she really holds against him is that he "killed" their mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime4Brienne Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Maybe. She might still blame him for "killing" their mother. Saw this AFTER I posted...even has the same air quotes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 She would still hate him but for different reasons. Just what is that Cercei thinks would have happened if her mother lived? That she would have approved of twincest? That she could have married Rhaeqar? That she could take up residence at King's landing? I don't think so. I can see Cercei on castle arrest with constant champerones (septa's). If she gave Joanna any lip, I can see Cercei being bitch slapped all the way to the Eyre.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 In general I have always felt that Cersei's extreme hatred of Tyrion stemmed from Tywin. She constantly thinks of herself as the heir Tywin should've had and follows in his lead with her hate of Tyrion and most people in general. One of the saddest parts in the books is when Tyrion is thinking about how he learned tumbling and thinks he even had Cersei laughing a couple time Until Tywin put a stop to his capers So in short, Tywin wouldn't hate Tyrion as much since he's not a dwarf, and Cersei would take her lead from her father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 In general I have always felt that Cersei's extreme hatred of Tyrion stemmed from Tywin. She constantly thinks of herself as the heir Tywin should've had and follows in his lead with her hate of Tyrion and most people in general. One of the saddest parts in the books is when Tyrion is thinking about how he learned tumbling and thinks he even had Cersei laughing a couple time Until Tywin put a stop to his capers So in short, Tywin wouldn't hate Tyrion as much since he's not a dwarf, and Cersei would take her lead from her father. exactly and also if the Maggy the Frog prophecy did not happen. and if Tyrion wasn't born a dwarf, then Joanna might not have died in childbirth too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The main difference would be that Tyrion would not be so scorned by the general public. It's not that odd that mothers die in childbirth. Those children aren't blamed on the deaths. At least mostly of them aren't. I don't remember Viserys saying that Dany killed their mom (that's the kind of thing he would say. After all, he blamed her for not have been born earlier) Tyrion wouldn't just be "not scorned". Even if he had caused his mother to die, if he had been born tall and handsome, he would be Jaime with Tywin's brains. Tywin wouldn't mind that much if Jaime was in the KG. In fact, he could even consider it a big honour, because the child that is more like him, would be his heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 It's not that odd that mothers die in childbirth. Those children aren't blamed on the deaths. At least mostly of them aren't. I don't remember Viserys saying that Dany killed their mom (that's the kind of thing he would say. After all, he blamed her for not have been born earlier)Tyrion wouldn't just be "not scorned". Even if he had caused his mother to die, if he had been born tall and handsome, he would be Jaime with Tywin's brains. Tywin wouldn't mind that much if Jaime was in the KG. In fact, he could even consider it a big honour, because the child that is more like him, would be his heir. Actually viserys did blame dany for killing their mom. dany thinks about it in AGOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Cersei doesn't really hate Tyrion for being a dwarf, btu for being that dwarf. It certainly doesn't help I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreign675 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Let's assume Tyrion's mother still dies giving birth to him, and assume Tyrion's personality is as intact as could be expected. Would Cersei, and for that matter, Tywin, despise him to the point of conspiring to kill him?I ask because I wonder how much of their hatred for him was prejudice towards dwarfs as opposed to who Tyrion was. No. Cersei's hatred for Tyrion was foraged by the gossips saying that Tyrion is a monster and that he killed her mother. If he was a good looking boy, the gossips would have been different. For a start, people would have been a bit happier for Tyrion's birth, they would have described Tyrion's birth as a blessing and the last beautiful gift of her Mother. She would have connected the death of her mother to Tyrion's birth, and maybe felt some grudge, but not hated him when everyone would display positive feelings. ===== No personality is set to stone at someone birth. The personality of a person is very much the outcome of the experiences one goes trough. If you change the experiences, you change the person. Especially if those experiences happen in childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKyrd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 He'd have to be a normal male babe for Cersei to even have a chance at thinking he was anywhere near her equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What do you think would have happened if Cercei had talked to Tyrion about the prophecy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What do you think would have happened if Cercei had talked to Tyrion about the prophecy? Tyrion would have probably thought she was a bit cray but ultimately understand why she's so fearful of it. and maybe even pitied her a little, which is something that cersei would absolutely hate so there's no way she would ever tell him about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 No. Cersei's hatred for Tyrion was foraged by the gossips saying that Tyrion is a monster and that he killed her mother. If he was a good looking boy, the gossips would have been different. For a start, people would have been a bit happier for Tyrion's birth, they would have described Tyrion's birth as a blessing and the last beautiful gift of her Mother. She would have connected the death of her mother to Tyrion's birth, and maybe felt some grudge, but not hated him when everyone would display positive feelings. ===== No personality is set to stone at someone birth. The personality of a person is very much the outcome of the experiences one goes trough. If you change the experiences, you change the person. Especially if those experiences happen in childhood. 100% on point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 We're assuming Cersei's judgment follows rational patterns now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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