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Balerion the kitten

Will bran warg an ice dragon

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CRACKPOT.

I'm new here so I'm not sure. Anyway I was re-reading a dance with dragons and I saw there was a few references about ice dragons, which was weird because I don't remember this being mentioned in any of the other books.

"The wind was gusting, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan had told when Jon was a boy"

"The road beneath the Wall was as dark and cold as the belly of an ice dragon and as twisty as a serpent"

"The wind was blowing from the east along the Wall, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan used to tell"

Now I know a lot of people believe bran will warg one of dany's dragons but if you remember what Mel said it's very likely that bloodraven is championing the great other and therefore bran is as well. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I got from it. And with this inevitable war coming with the others what better advantage for the others than to have a someone warg one.

Also it was mentioned that some sailors had spotted ice dragons

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Personally, I like to believe that he will warg a dragon. And if you recall, what she actually said was to the effect of show me your champion my lord. And then she sees snow and then it clears to show bran and BR. So even though I personally read it as Bran might be in some great danger; it is very possible Mel just doesn't know how to read prophecies and was misreading Bran being the champion.



That being said, it would be really cool if there was an ice dragon some where up north and he was able to use it.


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It's just in ADWD the 3 eyed crow (aka blood raven) says to bran

"The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong"

That's what made me think that maybe he was on the others side

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Yeah, I definitely agree that Bran's is the most dark chapters in the series.However, I think that the darkness imagery is much more directly related to the fact that Mel is just wrong; that light and darkness aren't really enemies since R'hllor doesn't really exist. I don't think he is working for the others although I think there is definitely reasons to think that the CotF could be working against the humans (and I've seen it suggested that they were started by the Children themselves) I fear that BR trying to steal Bran's life is a much more real threat.



I'd imagine that there is a very real possibility he could have Bran killed since that little dude is entirely too trusting.


And sorry if I was wrong, I was about 90% sure that the Mel chapter came right before Bran's chapter and couldn't figure out how to put a spoiler. I tried to avoid actually discussing any plot details though. Anyway, yeah, I was talking about this on a youtube page but I really am afraid for that little guy up there.

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I don't buy it.

First of all, there is no evidence that actual ice dragons exist in ASOIAF universe. The novela 'the ice dragon' is not from the same universe.

Furthermore, as in real life, the ones that presume to know the truth of any god are most often wrong. The fact that Mel names The Great Other as the red god's nemesis does not make it true, or that they are even opposites. And it does not put the COTF on the other team (when they are clearly fighting the Others as well). Remember, even if a god is not a human invention (which I personally believe as an atheist), religion certainly is. And if Mel claims that darkness is the domain of the other because that's what her religion claims, I take it with a pinch of salt. I don't believe that since BR said that darkness is a friend, he is absolute evil to Mel's absolute good. Also, when the Reeds renew their oaths, the swear by ice & fire, so to me it suggests that game is much more than one team vs the other.

Religious people tend to put everything in a good/evil perspective, and interoperate things only through their narrow view of reality. I think grrm is trying to tell us that (he is a Catholic gone Atheist after all). That no one is right, and things are more complex, and there is no good vs evil battles because these are human concepts that mean nothing outside the human mind.

So no, I don't think Bran will warg an ice dragon. Or maybe he will but not for the reasons in this thread anyway.

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Perhaps, but I think the Ice Dragon will be under the control of the NK.


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I don't buy it.

First of all, there is no evidence that actual ice dragons exist in ASOIAF universe. The novela 'the ice dragon' is not from the same universe.

Furthermore, as in real life, the ones that presume to know the truth of any god are most often wrong. The fact that Mel names The Great Other as the red god's nemesis does not make it true, or that they are even opposites. And it does not put the COTF on the other team (when they are clearly fighting the Others as well). Remember, even if a god is not a human invention (which I personally believe as an atheist), religion certainly is. And if Mel claims that darkness is the domain of the other because that's what her religion claims, I take it with a pinch of salt. I don't believe that since BR said that darkness is a friend, he is absolute evil to Mel's absolute good. Also, when the Reeds renew their oaths, the swear by ice & fire, so to me it suggests that game is much more than one team vs the other.

Religious people tend to put everything in a good/evil perspective, and interoperate things only through their narrow view of reality. I think grrm is trying to tell us that (he is a Catholic gone Atheist after all). That no one is right, and things are more complex, and there is no good vs evil battles because these are human concepts that mean nothing outside the human mind.

So no, I don't think Bran will warg an ice dragon. Or maybe he will but not for the reasons in this thread anyway.

Sorry I didn't mean to come off like that, I'm actually an atheist too. I didn't put it into a religious perspective deliberately with the good/ evil thing it's just when I read asoiaf that's the way I think of it with r'hllor/ great other.

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I totally understand and it IS simpler to look at things this way and very tempting. And Mel, as a religious person, always explain things in this fashion. Do we actually know that the red god is what Mel says it is? Is there really a Greate Other? What about the Drowned God, who's team is he on? And the Storm God? We need to remember that she is only a human being (though she'll have us believe otherwise) and therefore can be wrong. A lot of characters are sharing with us their view of the world but they are only mortals, and in most cases they contradict each other, so who is right? And who is more worthy of our trust? I think that these are important questions because they concern concepts that's were invented by people according to their culture and history rather than having anything to do with the real world.

The division of good and evil according to ice and fire is very inaccurate IMO, and I think this is GRRMs way to educate us. I bet that by the end we will find out that good and evil are mixed up. Just like in our favorite characters [emoji3]

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I always thought the Valyrian's avoided Westeros because of the fear that their Dragons would be Warged. I also thought it strange how they only claimed Dragonstone as their outpost instead of the fertile mainland where there was a abundance of possible slaves. I haven't seen any evidence that Dragons can't be Warged.


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I always thought the Valyrian's avoided Westeros because of the fear that their Dragons would be Warged. I also thought it strange how they only claimed Dragonstone as their outpost instead of the fertile mainland where there was a abundance of possible slaves. I haven't seen any evidence that Dragons can't be Warged.

Maybe they just had their hands full with Essoss wars. You need to establish your control over the territories you already have before conquering more, otherwise you will stretch yourself too much.

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I read the Ice Dragon, and I'm all for an ice dragon showing up. But I don't think it's very likely.



The reason I say this is that we already have the Others, countless prophecies, countless characters and story arcs, warring factions/houses, dragons, direwolves, giants...all happening on two different continents (Dany hasn't even come over yet/if ever), and the list goes on and on.



There are "only two books left". Sure, they're BIG books, like all the rest, but if George starts adding new elements to the story (like ice dragons) when we don't even have answers to the old elements, the story will be too big for two more books, and will require 3 or 4.



If anything I like that the enemy will come on an Ice Dragon, which will be exciting but require the least explanation and back story. Then it would give Dany and her three dragons something to face off with, and might even be the final "Dance w/ Dragons".



Now I could be completely wrong, of course. But just think there are enough loose ends to tie up for George without adding a whole new element of a slumbering ice dragon beneath the Wall, beneath Winterfell, or the multitude of other theories out there. My 3 cents.


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I read the Ice Dragon, and I'm all for an ice dragon showing up. But I don't think it's very likely.

The reason I say this is that we already have the Others, countless prophecies, countless characters and story arcs, warring factions/houses, dragons, direwolves, giants...all happening on two different continents (Dany hasn't even come over yet/if ever), and the list goes on and on.

There are "only two books left". Sure, they're BIG books, like all the rest, but if George starts adding new elements to the story (like ice dragons) when we don't even have answers to the old elements, the story will be too big for two more books, and will require 3 or 4.

If anything I like that the enemy will come on an Ice Dragon, which will be exciting but require the least explanation and back story. Then it would give Dany and her three dragons something to face off with, and might even be the final "Dance w/ Dragons".

Now I could be completely wrong, of course. But just think there are enough loose ends to tie up for George without adding a whole new element of a slumbering ice dragon beneath the Wall, beneath Winterfell, or the multitude of other theories out there. My 3 cents.

Steve I couldn't agree more...no need to muddy up the water any further...

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I seriously doubt a warg can control a dragon. I mean they had 150 years to try it but no one did.


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I remember an interview with George RR Martin where someone in the audience was asking if its possible to warg into a dragon. George had to laugh and said something like "hahaha I need to think about that".


Didn't sound to me as if he was already planing to make that happen. Of course it couldve been him playing it cool but i don't believe so. When asked about other theories like R+L=J his responses are always very determined like "No i am not gonna comment on that" etc and this seemed like a very natural reaction


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"you will never walk again, but you will fly"



That's all I need to believe Bran will warg or ride a dragon of some sort.


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In order to warg, mustn't one make 'contact' with another being, ie wouldn't Bran have to 'meet' a dragon before he can warg one? Otherwise wouldn't be be able to warg anything?

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