unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I read GRRM because I love the grey characters. The only purely good person that i've seen in the whole book is Sansa. I think it's quite an accomplishment that GRRM wrote the whole series to date with only one really white (white/black) character. She's the wholesome damsel in distress and I hope that she is able to stop Littlefinger. Will Tyrion rescue his wife? Will Sansa be the queen of love and beauty at the end? I mean what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hot Pie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I believe there are a lot more "good" characters. Bran, Sam, the Reed kids, Brienne, Gilly all come to mind. Besides, Sansa was such a little bitch in AGoT that I'm not sure she qualifies as pure either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Sansa was just trying to be a lady, as I read it. The Reed kids are evil spawn of the Children of the forest. Bran is pretty good but his taking over Hodor was evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacid Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Sansa isn't pure white at all - the thing that makes her unique amoungst the surviving characters is that she sincerely wants to be. But if anything, Eddard was more 'purely' good than she is. Nonetheless, I really love the moments where she does the right thing instinctively without even understanding why she's doing it herself. Like when she helps wounded Lancel in ACoK even though he's a Lannister, and reaches out for the Hound's face "for some reason". Not that she hasn't made her share of mistakes... :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 No, Eddard held his honor above love. But as we saw in AGOT, Sansa held love to be the highest ideal. I don't know how she could be more White than that honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hot Pie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Sansa was just trying to be a lady, as I read it. The Reed kids are evil spawn of the Children of the forest. Bran is pretty good but his taking over Hodor was evil. Bran taking over Hodor was a mistake which he repents. Evil requires malice of forethought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I read GRRM because I love the grey characters. The only purely good person that i've seen in the whole book is Sansa. I think it's quite an accomplishment that GRRM wrote the whole series to date with only one really white (white/black) character. She's the wholesome damsel in distress and I hope that she is able to stop Littlefinger. Will Tyrion rescue his wife? Will Sansa be the queen of love and beauty at the end? I mean what do you guys think? So you think Sansa did the right thing when she didn't speak up to say Joffrey was lying about Arya's direwolf? You think she always treated her sister perfectly? You think it good that she felt no remorse for having betrayed her father? And what's 'wholesome' about damsels in distress in any case? Hmm... you ask so many questions these really need separate threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have to agree. Sansa wants to be good, but is too stupid to be good. I mean she lied about what happened with the so called attack on Jeoffrey just so he would like her and because of her selfish lie her wolf was killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Nonetheless, I really love the moments where she does the right thing instinctively without even understanding why she's doing it herself. Like when she helps wounded Lancel in ACoK even though he's a Lannister, and reaches out for the Hound's face "for some reason". Not that she hasn't made her share of mistakes... :/ Great points...this is exactly what I'm talking about...and if she makes mistakes..well she is human (sort of), but still...not grey at all, I don't think. Not really a mean or deceitful bone in her body. I have to agree. Sansa wants to be good, but is too stupid to be good. I mean she lied about what happened with the so called attack on Jeoffrey just so he would like her and because of her selfish lie her wolf was killed Well, don't you think that this is how LF is going to redeem himself. I mean it seems like foreshadowing to me. LF will teach her how to be smarter about being good. And then she'll triumph over LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I believe there are a lot more "good" characters. Bran, Sam, the Reed kids, Brienne, Gilly all come to mind. I'm not sure these qualify as pure good either, though they're definitely further along the scale than Sansa. As is that fellow with the Dog. As for pure black, Gregor Clegane has to come close. Vargo Hoat wasn't exactly driven snow either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm not sure these qualify as pure good either, though they're definitely further along the scale than Sansa. As is that fellow with the Dog. As for pure black, Gregor Clegane has to come close. Vargo Hoat wasn't exactly driven snow either. You think Sandor, that thief and murderer is purer than Sansa? I don't understand this argument. Can you explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkostar Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 First off, the Littlefinger issue is completely different. I think the only pure white character in the series is Brienne. Sansa maybe USED to be white, or believed that she was white, but I think she's starting to relize the power of the human nature of greed and how she can manipulate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 OMG, Little Finger will NEVER redeem himself He is the most purely evil character in the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 First off, the Littlefinger issue is completely different. I think the only pure white character in the series is Brienne. Sansa maybe USED to be white, or believed that she was white, but I think she's starting to relize the power of the human nature of greed and how she can manipulate it. But RC, surely Sansa will use these powers for good. I mean being subte and intelligent are only grey if you don't use them with pure motives. Sansa still seems motivated by pure love. I think GRRM might respect that in the end. Though maybe not...but if he ruins Sansa by making her gray I will be very upset with this series. It's the one bright spot in a cloudy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 She's the wholesome damsel in distress and I hope that she is able to stop Littlefinger. Will Tyrion rescue his wife? Will Sansa be the queen of love and beauty at the end? I think she may 'stop' Littlefinger - but I think she might work with him for a good while, until he is near achieving his aim, then get rid of him. *will savour that* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well the Brienne issue is interesting... Brienne might give Sansa a run for her money... I think that the problem with Brienne is similar to the problem with Eddard. They just hold honor too high. Making honor and absolute is not the answer to being a White character. I mean, it can be used to manipulate you into doing bad things. Think about how Eddard basically handed Cersei the throne in AGOT. That's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacid Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I think the only pure white character in the series is Brienne. Just out of interest, what do you think makes her better than Eddard? (personally I prefer Brienne because I think she has more balls, but that's another topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 You think Sandor, that thief and murderer is purer than Sansa? I don't understand this argument. Can you explain? No, not Sandor. He *is* the dog. Whasshis name - Septon Meribald? The one who wandered around with Brienne lamenting the sorrows of war and its effect on the smallfolk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I always appreciated Sansa's chapters at first because they were a bright spot of naivete amongst a mess of scheming people who were too smart for their own good. However--although I'm a not-so-rabid Sansa defender, I think she's on her way to becoming grey. First her chapters turned into the most depressing ones in the series as Joffrey repeatedly made her life miserable (although her outlook remained refreshing) but I would definitely not call her "white" during AFFC. As soon as she started thinking about how she was the heir to Winterfell, I think that's what made her grey. It gave her a more sinister motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 But Sansa is learning to be a master manipulater and in the end she will do away with both littlefinger and Harry the Heir, by foul means. She will be an evil coniving little bitch. She already shows many signs of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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