unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I think she may 'stop' Littlefinger - but I think she might work with him for a good while, until he is near achieving his aim, then get rid of him. *will savour that* yeah. But I think it will go down such that LF gets rid of himself through his own moral ambiguity. I'd be rather shocked if Sansa murdered him. I just don't see the foreshadowing. Think of Lady...the death of Lady was Sansa's end of innocence, but not the start of grayness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hot Pie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm not sure these qualify as pure good either... That's why I put "good" in quotes. There really isn't any such thing as a 100% pure good character. There are those that aspire to honor and virtue though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Will Tyrion rescue his wife? Which wife? Tysha or Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 yeah. But I think it will go down such that LF gets rid of himself through his own moral ambiguity. I'd be rather shocked if Sansa murdered him. I just don't see the foreshadowing. Think of Lady...the death of Lady was Sansa's end of innocence, but not the start of grayness. LF=moral ambiguity, you really are delusional. THe death of Lady was the begining of her greyness. She lied and that lie really spelled doom for her and her house. It was the start of the fall of House Stark. How can you not see that her betraying her own family, not just once but several times, takes her out of the grey area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Which wife? Tysha or Sansa? Do you think Tysha is still alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Which wife? Tysha or Sansa? but that marriage was officially annulled...so Sansa is his only wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 THe death of Lady was the begining of her greyness. She lied and that lie really spelled doom for her and her house. It was the start of the fall of House Stark. How can you not see that her betraying her own family, not just once but several times, takes her out of the grey area? I won't dispute that she lied. Put I think her POV chapters make clear, at least to me, that she lied with good intentions, no? I mean she was young and fooled by love. But she was lying for love and not for self-interest. don't you think that's an important distinction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I won't dispute that she lied. Put I think her POV chapters make clear, at least to me, that she lied with good intentions, no? I mean she was young and fooled by love. But she was lying for love and not for self-interest. don't you think that's an important distinction? is there any greater self interest than love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 That's why I put "good" in quotes. There really isn't any such thing as a 100% pure good character. There are those that aspire to honor and virtue though. I think this is our main disagreement, though Hot Pie. While I do think it's admirable to aspire to those traits. Eddard and Brienne do that. But sometimes you have to choose between the right and the good with honor. That's where you can see a bit of grayness in those characters, IMO. But with Sansa, when she was young and innocent: it was all for love, that purest (whitest) of motives. Now she's is the classic Damsel in Distress. Do you see what I'm trying to say? is there any greater self interest than love? Heh, nice one. I guess it would depend if we asked Khalil Gibrain or St. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 But with Sansa, when she was young and innocent: it was all for love, that purest (whitest) of motives. doing something for the love of someone else is wholey pure; doing something to gain the love of someone is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 doing something for the love of someone else is wholey pure; doing something to gain the love of someone is not Well, I think you are saying something like: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. I can understand that sentiment even if I don't agree with it. Think about the "white" characters in our own religion or mythology. Besides, what Sansa was trying to gain was the fruition of her love. Recall the transition from her views on Loras over time and her views on the Hound over time. Certainly she's maturing but I don't see how you can say she is more gray now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Do you think Tysha is still alive? Yes. GRRM made it clear she was sent off by Tywin, not killed. Usually he kills people. I'm not sure she will feature in the books, though, because it's more realistic that he never sees her again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes. GRRM made it clear she was sent off by Tywin, not killed. Usually he kills people. I'm not sure she will feature in the books, though, because it's more realistic that he never sees her again. Well, not to get too off topic but she might have been one of the whores in Bravoos, no? But I doubt Tyrion will ever see her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well, I think you are saying something like: The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. I can understand that sentiment even if I don't agree with it. Think about the "white" characters in our own religion or mythology. Besides, what Sansa was trying to gain was the fruition of her love. Recall the transition from her views on Loras over time and her views on the Hound over time. Certainly she's maturing but I don't see how you can say she is more gray now. she is learning how to use and manipulate people...that is never a "white" or 'good" thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 she is learning how to use and manipulate people...that is never a "white" or 'good" thing That's is such spin :mad: What LF is trying to teach her and what she learns are two different things. Do you have any evidence that she is getting manipulative with impure motives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteQueen Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have been hoping she'll kill Littlefinger. I can't wait. That bastard just must die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have been hoping she'll kill Littlefinger. I can't wait. That bastard just must die! I agree, but not at the cost of Sansa's purity. I will quit GRRM forever and burn those books if that happens!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Will Sansa be the queen of love and beauty at the end? Aha - on this I am not sure. I think she will be queen of love and beauty *near* the end, but I suspect she may be brought down in the end. I'm not sure there'll be a happy reconciliation between her and Arya...any more than between Tyrion and Jaime. Your comments suggested you thought Tyrion might 'rescue' Sansa. A very romantic suggestion, but I don't think these books are so romantic. There is some appeal to the idea that Sansa will become reconciled to Tyrion and see beyond his apparently grotesque appearance... too late perhaps, because he is on a downwards path at the moment... but even if they meet again and are reconciled, I can't see them living happily ever after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well, Soph, I have this completely crazy theory that there will be a scene with Dany, Sansa, and Tyrion altogether. And Dany will try to punish and/or have Sansa executed. And Tyrion, by that time will be a part of her entourage. And this will put Tyrion to the test, but in the end he'll choose Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 but that marriage was officially annulled...so Sansa is his only wife Ah, but Tysha was his one true wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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