unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ah, but Tysha was his one true wife. Yes and no. Tysha was the wife of his youth. That doesn't mean she is the ONLY wife for him. Though you raise an interesting point. I'm not sure that Tyrion would choose Sansa over Tysha. Of course this points to the grayness in Tyrion and is not a blemish on Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Of course this points to the grayness in Tyrion and is not a blemish on Sansa. Where's the :puke: emoticon? :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Where's the :puke: emoticon? :sick: I'm sorry if I offended you. I was only trying to have a serious discussion. Perhaps its a cultural barrier. Please forgive me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well, Soph, I have this completely crazy theory that there will be a scene with Dany, Sansa, and Tyrion altogether. And Dany will try to punish and/or have Sansa executed. And Tyrion, by that time will be a part of her entourage. And this will put Tyrion to the test, but in the end he'll choose Sansa. this is one of the few statement you have made that actually makes sense. Tyrion loved Sansa in a way (you know, that way you can olny love a just flowered 12 yr old) Dany will give him power. So the question is will Tyrion choose the lovely slightly older girl who gives him power or the not quiet ripe girl who humiliated him on their wedding day and then disappeared leaving him to take the blame for a murder he didn't commit? hmmmm... tough choice thee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 hmmmm... tough choice thee Well please allow me to continue trying to make sense. It would be a choice of unselfish love. In fact he would be giving up quite a selfish interest in Dany's reign. But that epitomizes Sansa. I think it works on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacid Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Dany will give him power. So the question is will Tyrion choose the lovely slightly older girl who gives him power or the not quiet ripe girl who humiliated him on their wedding day and then disappeared leaving him to take the blame for a murder he didn't commit? hmmmm... tough choice thee I hope and believe that Dany will be the one doing the choosing. And let's face it, Tyrion isn't really her type. Jonny, I think despite good intentions you're actually underestimating Sansa's complexity as a character. She's also driven partly by teenage hormones, by a desire to simply have a good time like an ordinary girl and be loved (which is not the same as being motivated 'by' love), by a deeply ingrained sense of dutifulness and decorum, and by the weathered leftovers of her romanticism and love of stories, in addition to just wanting to do the right thing. I'm not sure what you mean by her 'purity'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ah, but Tysha was his one true wife. I hadn't realized you were such a romantic now I need the :sick: icon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm sorry if I offended you. I was only trying to have a serious discussion. Perhaps its a cultural barrier. Please forgive me. I'm sure Sansa would forgive you. I'm not sure I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes and no. Tysha was the wife of his youth. That doesn't mean she is the ONLY wife for him. Though you raise an interesting point. I'm not sure that Tyrion would choose Sansa over Tysha. Of course this points to the grayness in Tyrion and is not a blemish on Sansa. really, Sansa has enough of her blemishes though. was it good and pure to humiliate her husband on their wedding day. She could have shown him a little of the kindness he had shown her ever since he arrived in landing. I'm sure Sansa would forgive you. I'm not sure I could. I wasn't talking about my perception of her, but Tyrion's. His marriage to Sansa has not even been consummated. my turn sorry and I swear i'm not just copying your emotions...you know we sometimes thing alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I hadn't realized you were such a romantic now I need the :sick: icon I wasn't talking about my perception of her, but Tyrion's. His marriage to Sansa has not even been consummated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 now that is just too weird. I quoted you, but ended up on top of you...errrr I mean. my post is on top of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 now that is just too weird. I quoted you, but ended up on top of you...errrr I mean. my post is on top of your post. You must be precognizant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 You must be precognizant! of course I am....it's how I know Sansa will end up EVIL...not even grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Jonny, I think despite good intentions you're actually underestimating Sansa's complexity as a character. She's also driven partly by teenage hormones, by a desire to simply have a good time like an ordinary girl and be loved (which is not the same as being motivated 'by' love), by a deeply ingrained sense of dutifulness and decorum, and by the weathered leftovers of her romanticism and love of stories, in addition to just wanting to do the right thing. I'm not sure what you mean by her 'purity'. Thank you for your serious response, and you raise many interesting issues. But don't you think we can make a distinction between 'complexity' and 'grey.' Grey seems to be GRRM's favorite way to show complexity as witnessed by all of the charactes save Sansa (especially that she-bitch Arya ) But I think I do see Sansa as complex. Flat characters annoy me to no end. But I also see an inner goodness, nay pureness, that does not exist in the other characters. Well it does in degrees, but not in the absolute. Maybe I'm picking a bad word with purity. But honestly, if you look at Sansa's intentions throughout the book, she hasn't acted for purely selfish reasons as many of the other characters have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 You must be precognizant! Actually my posts got merged together so I edited to separate them out - didn't realise you had already replied! I guess that means I started off on top and ended up underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacid Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 All well and good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 of course I am....it's how I know Sansa will end up EVIL...not even grey How can you even begin to defend this thesis? I don't know how to respond since you obviously don't even have reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 . But honestly, if you look at Sansa's intentions throughout the book, she hasn't acted for purely selfish reasons as many of the other characters have. How can you say that with a straight face? Her every motovation is selfish. She makes fun of and belittes her sister, so not nice; she lies so people will like her; she is totally shallow....all about outward appearnces, not truth in any shape or form. The girl has no idea how to be truthful. Yes, I will give yoou that some of that is neitivity, but damn, that is no excuse for betryaing your family (she wants mom to be proud, she wants Jeoff to love her, she wants the queen to like her, she wants to look pretty) she wants , she wants and she wants...and all for vain and selfish reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 of course I am....it's how I know Sansa will end up EVIL...not even grey (Shall we just ignore Jonny here?) Why see characters only in greyscale? I'm not sure I believe in good and evil at all, but if they are meaningful concepts, I am sure they are more than single-dimensional. For example does it make a difference if a bad (harmful) act is done for good reasons? And what is the difference between something awful done through laziness, carelessless or thoughtlessness (as in Sansa's case), or lack of empathy for others, or mental disorder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 How can you even begin to defend this thesis? I don't know how to respond since you obviously don't even have reasons. my reasons: 1) she is already VERY grey, a selfish and vain person 2) LF is training her how to manipulate: she shows she is learning these lessons in the way she starts to manipulate thos around her; she lies to protect a murderer 3) She is starting to see LF (I think) for what he is. She will use him to gain the "courtly" skills she needs and she will turn those skill to eliminating him 3) She will grow to like the taste of power, but she will still be stupid and vain and do selfish vainthings with her power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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