Destination Mantarys Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 This is just a small thing that has bothered me as I've gone deeper down the rabbit hole, but maybe someone on here has some info that I am not privy to. From everything I have read, the only two survivors from the confrontation between the 3 KG members and Ned's retinue are Ned and Howland Reed (and maybe Jon Snow :leer:). This is fine in and of itself, but Ned also recalls that they tore down the entire tower and even used the old building's remains to build cairns for the dead. How could the two of them (while also caring for a newborn) manage to tear the whole thing down by themselves? Did they have re-enforcements on the way we are not aware of? I'm not trying to shed light on some new theory here, it just seems like a bit of stretch if there is no other explanation, and from past experience it seems like there is always an explanation. Any ideas? p.s.I feel like the fact that this has been stuck in my mind is symptomatic of something I'm sure everyone on here is familiar with. It's like literary cabin fever with the source material. We're all confined in this tiny cabin of the known, and being stuck have slowly driven ourselves insane diving into the most minute details that will most likely prove either completely wrong or completely inconsequential. God I need WoW in a bad way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Mantarys Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 probable exacerbated by the 30 feet of snow we've gotten here in the past month, so it might just be real cabin fever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKyrd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 There were other people there, we just don't know who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 There were other people there, we just don't know who. A Royal party of three King's Guard and the girlfriend/ wife of the Crowned Prince (who was also pregnant) would need a group of servants and midwives/ Maester. The King's Guard were not going to be cooking and taking care of Lyanna. Not to mention a somewhat routine supply chain from (most likely) Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Santa of House Claus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think it is safe to say there were other people there. The King's Guard and Tower would have servants, as would Ned and his company. Also, we know only 6 and his 6 friends fought, but did his army, or part of his army come with him from Storm's End? Is that ever expressly stated that Ned left all his forces behind or anything like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What is the tower of joy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What is the tower of joy? Rhaegar's penis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Mantarys Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yeah I guess there would have to be other people there just for the day-to-day maintenance. If that is the case though, wouldn't someone there have noticed that Lyanna's child had actually lived? I'm guessing there would have been a wet-nurse at the least for Lyanna. Would Ned have just sworn all witnesses to secrecy regarding the child? Or are we supposed to think there were no witnesses to the actual birth? I just feel like if there was a normal garrison at the castle then the events preceding and following wouldn't be surrounded with the level of mystery there seems to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It Rhymes With Sneak Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Howland Reed called in his army of frogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think it is safe to say there were other people there. The King's Guard and Tower would have servants, as would Ned and his company. Also, we know only 6 and his 6 friends fought, but did his army, or part of his army come with him from Storm's End? Is that ever expressly stated that Ned left all his forces behind or anything like that? I do remember something about the 7 of them riding on after Storm's End to move fast instead of an entire army. I can believe that just the 7 of them rode without servants, they were at war and were men of training, they could survive on their own. The Tower on the other hand would need servents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yeah I guess there would have to be other people there just for the day-to-day maintenance. If that is the case though, wouldn't someone there have noticed that Lyanna's child had actually lived? I'm guessing there would have been a wet-nurse at the least for Lyanna. Would Ned have just sworn all witnesses to secrecy regarding the child? Or are we supposed to think there were no witnesses to the actual birth? I just feel like if there was a normal garrison at the castle then the events preceding and following wouldn't be surrounded with the level of mystery there seems to be The servants may or may not have known about Rhaegar and Lyanna. They may have also just assumed that Robert's forces disposed of the child. They might have also been in the employ of the Dyane's and were told to keep their mouth shut or given some other plausible explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yeah I guess there would have to be other people there just for the day-to-day maintenance. If that is the case though, wouldn't someone there have noticed that Lyanna's child had actually lived? I'm guessing there would have been a wet-nurse at the least for Lyanna. Would Ned have just sworn all witnesses to secrecy regarding the child? Or are we supposed to think there were no witnesses to the actual birth? I just feel like if there was a normal garrison at the castle then the events preceding and following wouldn't be surrounded with the level of mystery there seems to be We know that there was at least one other person there besides Ned and Howland. “They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Rhaegar's penis. I thought that was the Sword of the Morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Mantarys Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 That would imply, assuming that Ned hadn't immediately hidden the baby or something, that at least one other person would have known Lyanna's child had lived. The sack of KL had already taken place and with it the supposed end of the Targaryen line, so I would think that even if the child was assumed to be a bastard or something it still would have been hard to keep secret if anyone outside of Ned's most trusted inner-circle had known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 This has never been much of a concern for me. Even if there were hardly any servants, etc. we know Ned and Howland had plenty of horsepower. They had the seven horses their group arrived with plus, at least, the three KG's horses. Also, I doubt very much the Tower of Joy was very big, etc. so I guess I don't think it would have been very hard for a couple of guys to use horses to pull out a few supports and let physics take care of the rest :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Santa of House Claus Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I do remember something about the 7 of them riding on after Storm's End to move fast instead of an entire army. I can believe that just the 7 of them rode without servants, they were at war and were men of training, they could survive on their own. The Tower on the other hand would need servents The men maybe badass and everything, but they were still lords, they would at least have a squire/servant each to help with the armor, and likely, at least one standard bearer if not two for the Stark and Baratheon battle standards. Also, these men could survive on their own, but they are northman all the way down in Dorne, far different country. So I would say they had at least 7 extra people with them, their squires, the standard bearer(s) could be left behind, but they would need a servant to help with the armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I thought that was the Sword of the Morning? That's every man's nickname when the sun rises...Not just Rhaegar's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The entourage of both Ned and Lyanna would have had been to be spartan otherwise Jon's parentage could not have been kept a secret. It's human nature. I mean, unless Ned and Howland killed all these servants/midwife/maester/squires that some of you envision in order to protect the secret. But that doesn't seem likely considering what we know of Ned, right? Still, at bare minimum there needed to be a wetnurse involved otherwise Jon's story would have been short indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destination Mantarys Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 Mal Malenkirk that's exactly where I ended up, but it leaves more questions than answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralKyrd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 A lot has been made of HR=HS, but I wouldn't be surprised if the High Sparrow was at the Tower of Joy and taken back to Greywater Watch after the war to serve them indefinitely as a spiritual guide. “Most have lost their homes. Suffering is everywhere ... and grief, and death. Before coming to King’s Landing, I tended to half a hundred little villages too small to have a septon of their own. I walked from each one to the next, performing marriages, absolving sinners of their sins, naming newborn children. Those villages are no more, Your Grace. Weeds and thorns grow where gardens once flourished, and bones litter the roadsides. Once Robert died and Ned was executed, Howland might have allowed him to travel again. This would explain why he has craggo-like features, and allows him to effectively have knowledge of R+L=J without actually being Howland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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