The "Winged Wolf" A Bran Stark Re-read Project - Part II ASOS & ADWD

[LongRider]

The Last Night's King. The King of the Others. The Last King of Winter, wielder of the True Ice (seriously, where is the Ice of long ago, the one that was lost....)

I love parallels and there are lots of them in the books.

He very well could be. He's definitely a greenseer but there might be more to him.

Thanks for your remarks.

We know that BR and the Children both warg the ravens, however, the warging power is stronger in the Starks, (that is my sense anyway) and Bran and Arya both have the most developed powers. Arya dreams of Nymeria from a continent away, and sees the Weirwood eyes watching her in her dreams as well. Bran speaks to Theon, and even Ned raises his head when Bran says "Father!" when he sees him in the Weirwood vision.

Bran and party all ate the 'pork' that CH hands found in the forest and brought to them. We know that, most likely, it wasn't pork but meat from humans. So as far as cannibalism, all of Bran's party is tainted that way. Bran knowingly wargs Summer when the direwolf eats of dead human flesh, and he wargs Hodor. Both activities are taboo but Bran knowingly breaks them. So, Bran the Greenseer, powerful warg and cannibal, well, he's going to develop into something interesting, that's for sure.

[evita mgfs]

Thank you so much!

I enjoyed reading your essays and I'm curious about why the wights don't speak, although the walkers do.

Thank you and I couldn't agree more - thanks to everyone who participated and contribute to the re-read. It was a great learning experience and I think it really expanded our understanding of Bran's character.

Good catch.

BR is a pragmatist and this is probably the least of his concerns. He wasn't a paragon of morality while he was roaming the earth so I see no reason he'd become one now. Although, I do wonder what the Singers think of Bran's behaviour.

This is pretty disturbing but more so because he doesn't even think about it. Even as a child shouldn't he be grossed out by eating dead human flesh?

Agree!

I get the feeling that we will never know the true story behind it. We might get snippets here and there but won't get the complete tale.

Me too! That would be so cool.

Maybe or maybe not. Who knows. Although I was had a conversation with Ser Creighton about this where he talked about how BR the red was passing on the command to Bran the blue as winter was coming. Maybe the Stark's winter magic will also be what is ended to help defeat the Others.

As I mentioned before BR is a pragmatist, he understands both sides perhaps as you mention he was Bran to understand them to, in order to do what he'll need to do.

Thanks. :)

I love parallels and there are lots of them in the books.

He very well could be. He's definitely a greenseer but there might be more to him.

Regarding Bran, he is the Greatest Greenseer. The Greatest Magician and Wizard. Like The Great Gatsby, tee-hee.

Now visit my thread on Bran's Growing Powers, Please!

[BearQueen87]

Regarding Bran, he is the Greatest Greenseer. The Greatest Magician and Wizard. Like The Great Gatsby, tee-hee.

Now visit my thread on Bran's Growing Powers, Please!

I'm going to try and make it over there soon! Life keeps getting in the way. (Stupid Real Life)

[evita mgfs]

I'm going to try and make it over there soon! Life keeps getting in the way. (Stupid Real Life)

Dear BearQueen87,

I see - and read - how busy you are. Keep up the good work! I am not advancing the thread until you get there - and I started my "Gatsby". I have this much:

Gatsby regularly “dispenses starlight to stray moths” by hosting splendid, expensive parties in an effort to recapture his past by luring Daisy’s attendance. “People were not invited – they went there . . . after that they conducted themselves according to the rules of behavior associated with amusement parks” (41). Most depart having never met their Host while Nick makes it a mission to meet the enigmatic Gatsby who watches his staging and those upon it from a distance.

Owl-Eyes says, “This fella’s a regular Belasco” (46), a gifted theatrical producer. Like Belasco, Gatsby mounts an extravagant event that is an illusion, a magic trick, just as he is and the dream he chases. The Great “Jay” Gatsby is a magician who casts spells that eventually turn to dust.

The Great Greenseer Bran is a magician who sets his theatrical production in the WF godswood, hosting a wedding party for uninvited guests

[DarkSister1001]

Bran III

A Dance with Dragons

“What was he now? Only Bran the broken boy, Brandon of House Stark, prince of a lost kingdom, lord of a burned castle, heir to ruins.”

:cheers: That was fantastic! Thank you!

• They call Brynden the last greenseer, but wouldn’t Bran be the last greenseer?

This always perplexed me too. Perhaps BR is the last greenseer until Bran takes his place. Could it be just a title?

I’m curious about whether or not this applies solely to the Singers themselves or to the humans who are chosen to be greenseers. As we know Brynden Rivers has red eyes, but Bran Stark has blue eyes. Is there any relevance to this, something to think about?

That makes me sad to think about. It's almost purposefully stated in a way that gives the initial thought that it's all. But that could just be a trick from GRRM. I sure hope it's not all. I'm still in denial about Bran's possibly tragic fate.

When Bran first encountered T3EC he told Bran that he would never walk again but he would fly. Bran’s first taste of flying begins with a raven:

Going back to what Haggon & Varamyr taught us about the animals and abominations I think this is a good indication that it can't be taken to strictly. Haggon warned Varamyr to stear clear of birds but the first thing BR teaches Bran is to enter the mind of a raven. If used responsibly the gift can be a tool to do a lot of good. It requires discipline and maturity. I think BQ was spot on in her assessment that Haggon was only trying to rein in Varamyr and I think this is a testament to that.

It is in this lesson that Bran first sees through the eyes of the tree, more specifically the eyes of the great weirwood in Winterfell. He sees his own father but learns the cruel lesson being a mere observer and not being able to change the past. For anyone this would be a hard lesson but for a child who’s lost his family, it’s almost cruel, to be so close to his father and yet so far.

Heartbreaking. But it was good to see Ned again.

Bran’s use of the term wizard to describe the T3EC made me thing of Dortohy’s journey to find the Wizard of Oz, that is, that the man behind the curtain might not always be what you expect.

Wonderful connection.

This excerpt is from an essay I wrote analyzing the similarities between Dany’s visit to the House of the Undying and Bran’s time at the cave. I think it might also serve as part of the analysis for this Bran chapter.

That was great. I vaguely recall reading it before and it's still just as profound. And truly pretty far apart in the series from one another.

3) The pregnant lady: no idea. But maybe something to do with the She Wolves of Winterfell?

I cannot remember where or who wrote it but I read an interesting theory that the pregnant lady was actually the girl Stark that had been stolen by Bael. That she had not given birth when they found her and wanted a son to avenge her and kill her rapist. Much darker than the song, but an interesting take.

"The direwolves will outlast us all" --foreshadowing that the Starks get back WF and are the only family left standing at the end? (and Jon Stark-Targaryen)

Gods be good, I hope so. But then the gods are rarely good. :)

[DarkSister1001]

“The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. ‘Theon.’ They seemed to whisper ‘Theon.’”

Moreover, Bran masters using the tree’s mouth to speak:

“. . . Bran,” the tree murmured” (616).

Through these examples, Martin marks Bran’s wizardry advancing as he gives voices to the heart tree’s leaves and mouth, to assorted ravens, and to the door hinges leading into Winterfell’s crypts. Moreover, by associating screaming with Bran in earlier novels, the author unifies and emphasizes the ‘finding a voice’ motif.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/132143-brans-growing-powers-after-his-final-pov-in-adwd/

Absolutely. Great stuff here. I recall Bran being in the Godswood an eternity ago and Osha telling him that the wind he hears was the voice of the Old Gods. And now he is the one sending the winds to speak to Theon.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Thanks for your remarks.

We know that BR and the Children both warg the ravens, however, the warging power is stronger in the Starks, (that is my sense anyway) and Bran and Arya both have the most developed powers. Arya dreams of Nymeria from a continent away, and sees the Weirwood eyes watching her in her dreams as well. Bran speaks to Theon, and even Ned raises his head when Bran says "Father!" when he sees him in the Weirwood vision.

Bran and party all ate the 'pork' that CH hands found in the forest and brought to them. We know that, most likely, it wasn't pork but meat from humans. So as far as cannibalism, all of Bran's party is tainted that way. Bran knowingly wargs Summer when the direwolf eats of dead human flesh, and he wargs Hodor. Both activities are taboo but Bran knowingly breaks them. So, Bran the Greenseer, powerful warg and cannibal, well, he's going to develop into something interesting, that's for sure.

The thing is, neither Bloodraven nor Jojen ever tell him the sacred rules Haggon taught Varamyr. That has me convinced that some shenanigans are definitely afoot.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

:cheers: That was fantastic! Thank you!

This always perplexed me too. Perhaps BR is the last greenseer until Bran takes his place. Could it be just a title?

That makes me sad to think about. It's almost purposefully stated in a way that gives the initial thought that it's all. But that could just be a trick from GRRM. I sure hope it's not all. I'm still in denial about Bran's possibly tragic fate.

Going back to what Haggon & Varamyr taught us about the animals and abominations I think this is a good indication that it can't be taken to strictly. Haggon warned Varamyr to stear clear of birds but the first thing BR teaches Bran is to enter the mind of a raven. If used responsibly the gift can be a tool to do a lot of good. It requires discipline and maturity. I think BQ was spot on in her assessment that Haggon was only trying to rein in Varamyr and I think this is a testament to that.

Heartbreaking. But it was good to see Ned again.

Wonderful connection.

That was great. I vaguely recall reading it before and it's still just as profound. And truly pretty far apart in the series from one another.

I cannot remember where or who wrote it but I read an interesting theory that the pregnant lady was actually the girl Stark that had been stolen by Bael. That she had not given birth when they found her and wanted a son to avenge her and kill her rapist. Much darker than the song, but an interesting take.

Gods be good, I hope so. But then the gods are rarely good. :)

I believe that theory was mine!

I'll post it here in a jiff.

I also interpret the title "Last Greenseer" as being strictly an informal title. Unlike the other roles Bran has or encounters, it has exists in only one line of text and has no history, explanation or deeper mythology.

[BearQueen87]

The thing is, neither Bloodraven nor Jojen ever tell him the sacred rules Haggon taught Varamyr. That has me convinced that some shenanigans are definitely afoot.

In Jojen's case it could be a cultural thing--in other words, that Jojen as someone from Westeros (well, south of the Wall) isn't going to recognize and know the cultural mores of the Wildlings.

Bloodraven has no such excuse. Which is why I think he simply doesn't care and chooses not to correct Bran because, so far as BR is concerned, Bran warging a man, eating dead flesh, is what Bran needs to do in order to get him to the point BR wants him to be.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I was pondering one of Bran’s visions during his last ADWD during a re-read so as to make some comparisons to Dany’s:

a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the

black pool

, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a

son who would avenge

her

Then a certain connection struck me: This woman sounds like the Stark daughter Bael the Bard “seduced”:

one night as he lay waiting to die,

Lord

Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.”

“Bael had brought her back?”

“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time,

hiding with the dead beneath the castle.

The maid

loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son

, the song says… though

if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote

.

There is already a very strongly evidenced connection between the Crypts of Winterfell and Gorne’s Way, but in particular there seems to be a link between the strange black pool, and the “swift black river” underneath the the Cave of the Three-Eyed-Crow. The godswood, like all of Winterfell, is warmed by hot springs, but the pool is described as “cool” even in the depths of summer. Osha playfully suggests that there might be something significant at the bottom, if there’s a bottom at all in the strictest sense:

How can you swim in there?” he asked Osha.

“Isn’t it cold?

”

“As a babe I suckled on icicles, boy. I like the cold.” Osha swam to the rocks and rose dripping. She was naked, her skin bumpy with gooseprickles. Summer crept close and sniffed at her. “I wanted to touch the bottom.”

“I never knew there was a bottom.”

“

Might be there isn’t.” She grinned

.

The placement of the vision also fits in terms of time for it be the Stark daughter: before Ned’s generation and after the “A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows” who sounds like the Brandon Snow, Torrhens’s brother who wanted to use weirwood arrows and stealth to slay the dragons (”there is power in a living wood, a power as strong as fire”), thus after the Conquest. Brandon the Daughterless was a lord, not a king.

What Ygritte suggested was right: the Stark daughter didn’t love Bael, as he always boasted in his songs. He “stole” her in the classic Free Folk fashion and raped her. She hid in the crypts (or otherwise used them to return home with Gorne’s Way) and then emerged from the dark pool in the godswood and prayed that her son would avenger her by killing Bael, which is exactly what he did.

[DarkSister1001]

I was pondering one of Bran’s visions during his last ADWD during a re-read so as to make some comparisons to Dany’s:

a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the

black pool

, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a

son who would avenge

her

Then a certain connection struck me: This woman sounds like the Stark daughter Bael the Bard “seduced”:

one night as he lay waiting to die,

Lord

Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.”

“Bael had brought her back?”

“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time,

hiding with the dead beneath the castle.

The maid

loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son

, the song says… though

if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote

.

There is already a very strongly evidenced connection between the Crypts of Winterfell and Gorne’s Way, but in particular there seems to be a link between the strange black pool, and the “swift black river” underneath the the Cave of the Three-Eyed-Crow. The godswood, like all of Winterfell, is warmed by hot springs, but the pool is described as “cool” even in the depths of summer. Osha playfully suggests that there might be something significant at the bottom, if there’s a bottom at all in the strictest sense:

How can you swim in there?” he asked Osha.

“Isn’t it cold?

”

“As a babe I suckled on icicles, boy. I like the cold.” Osha swam to the rocks and rose dripping. She was naked, her skin bumpy with gooseprickles. Summer crept close and sniffed at her. “I wanted to touch the bottom.”

“I never knew there was a bottom.”

“

Might be there isn’t.” She grinned

.

The placement of the vision also fits in terms of time for it be the Stark daughter: before Ned’s generation and after the “A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows” who sounds like the Brandon Snow, Torrhens’s brother who wanted to use weirwood arrows and stealth to slay the dragons (”there is power in a living wood, a power as strong as fire”), thus after the Conquest. Brandon the Daughterless was a lord, not a king.

What Ygritte suggested was right: the Stark daughter didn’t love Bael, as he always boasted in his songs. He “stole” her in the classic Free Folk fashion and raped her. She hid in the crypts (or otherwise used them to return home with Gorne’s Way) and then emerged from the dark pool in the godswood and prayed that her son would avenger her by killing Bael, which is exactly what he did.

That's the one. Love it! It's a great example of how the songs are prettier than life.

In Jojen's case it could be a cultural thing--in other words, that Jojen as someone from Westeros (well, south of the Wall) isn't going to recognize and know the cultural mores of the Wildlings.

Bloodraven has no such excuse. Which is why I think he simply doesn't care and chooses not to correct Bran because, so far as BR is concerned, Bran warging a man, eating dead flesh, is what Bran needs to do in order to get him to the point BR wants him to be.

I agree. Either A) BR knows and doesn't care. or B ) he has no idea which, I think, would be an indication that Bran is more powerful than BR.

[Mehmet Eren]

What Do you mean by other title you means such as King of the winter ....

[BearQueen87]

What Do you mean by other title you means such as King of the winter ....

Well I mostly associate Bran with ice magic and the power of winter. I don't think Bran is going to be a warm and fluffy kitten come the Battle for the Dawn. I'm not even convinced he's going to be on the same side as Dany and Jon (and I don't even think those are really going to be on the same side. I think it's going to be Fire--Dany--vs Ice--led by Bran who has been seduced into his new role--with Jon in the middle trying to find a fix the world from breaking more.) Every song needs its balance.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

What Do you mean by other title you means such as King of the winter ....

Or "The Stark in Winterfell"; he's the only one to be referred by the title on page and the only kingly figure to actually be seen holding court and dealing the affairs of running his castle in a sincere manner;

Robb was crowned "King in the North" but was never actually king while in the North.

Renly, Robert, Joffrey, Viserys, Balon, and even Stannis all fail or fall short of our idea of what kings should be (but the topic of what GRRM thinks of monarchy is another discussion)

[Mehmet Eren]

Well I mostly associate Bran with ice magic and the power of winter. I don't think Bran is going to be a warm and fluffy kitten come the Battle for the Dawn. I'm not even convinced he's going to be on the same side as Dany and Jon (and I don't even think those are really going to be on the same side. I think it's going to be Fire--Dany--vs Ice--led by Bran who has been seduced into his new role--with Jon in the middle trying to find a fix the world from breaking more.) Every song needs its balance.

Well something like that will suit story I also hope Breaking Bad staff from Bran that will be interesting ....

[Mehmet Eren]

Or "The Stark in Winterfell"; he's the only one to be referred by the title on page and the only kingly figure to actually be seen holding court and dealing the affairs of running his castle in a sincere manner;

Robb was crowned "King in the North" but was never actually king while in the North.

Renly, Robert, Joffrey, Viserys, Balon, and even Stannis all fail or fall short of our idea of what kings should be (but the topic of what GRRM thinks of monarchy is another discussion)

Thanks, Like legendary title own by Bran ...

[Broken Bran]

Just started lurking around this site recently. This re-read is amazing and I salute all of those who have contributed. Wonderful stuff !!

When I first re-read the books and came across Bloodraven's quote :“Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”

My first thought was the next line is - and only one greenseer in a thousand can be a......Winged Wolf. The first and only if his kind.

I think evita mgfs has hit the nail on the head Bran's powers are truly exceptional

[BearQueen87]

Just started lurking around this site recently. This re-read is amazing and I salute all of those who have contributed. Wonderful stuff !!

When I first re-read the books and came across Bloodraven's quote :“Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”

My first thought was the next line is - and only one greenseer in a thousand can be a......Winged Wolf. The first and only if his kind.

I think evita mgfs has hit the nail on the head Bran's powers are truly exceptional

And I think that's very much like Dany: she's a Targaryen but there's something *extra* about Dany for some reason, something that allowed her to walk into a pyre and come out unscathed (we know Targs aren't immune to fire, GRRM has said so). And while she is a dragon rider, she's also more than that to her three children. So again, we have a symmetry to those two: two sides of the same coin, ice and fire.

Welcome to the forums and Re-Read!

[LongRider]

Just started lurking around this site recently. This re-read is amazing and I salute all of those who have contributed. Wonderful stuff !!

When I first re-read the books and came across Bloodraven's quote :“Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”

My first thought was the next line is - and only one greenseer in a thousand can be a......Winged Wolf. The first and only if his kind.

I think evita mgfs has hit the nail on the head Bran's powers are truly exceptional

Nice!

[evita mgfs]

HEY, ALL! PLEASE READ - I am dying for a response!

When Bran takes his first journey into the weirwood under the supervision of Bloodraven and Leaf, both of them eagerly await Bran's report. They anticipate his response.

But neither of them expect Bran to skip the PRESENT and go right to the PAST.

Lord Brynden instructs Bran to slip his skin and travel through the tree roots to the hill’s surface to peer through the weirwood’s eyes and tell him what he sees. however, when Bran “become the tree”, in an instant he is home, in the heart tree of Winterfell’s godswood. Bran covers a substantial distance that far exceeds Bloodraven’s initial goal for his pupil.

When Bran reveals that he saw his father cleaning his greatsword Ice beneath the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood, Leaf is quick to offer an explanation: “You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw” (458).

Leaf suggests that Bran’s visit to Winterfell is due to his emotional attachment to his home and his father. Bran’s heart takes him there. Bran is sure that his father is alive, but Bloodraven clarifies that Bran visits “shadows of days past”, where greenseers can call upon bygone days in rapid succession, a thousand human years in a moment.

So

Even though Bran is far from Winterfell, even though he has traveled beyond the great ice barricade of the Wall, and even though he is beneath a hill in a warded cave, the skinchanger in him travels far indeed for the FIRST time out as a GREENSSER.

Obviously, Bloodraven did not expect Bran to visit the PAST the FIRST time he weds the tree; as a matter of fact, the Last Greenseer probably anticipates another raven fiasco! Bran had a wee bit of trouble with a raven the first time he learned to fly. And, the readers know more than Bloodraven, for all his ancient wisdom. Readers know that Bran has been practicing in Hodor – Bran has tasted human blood and human flesh through Summer – and doesn’t Bran dine on Coldhand’s pork dinner?

Then, when Bran returns to his alcove, BAM! He’s back in the tree again – the second time, the images race – hurtle – backward into time, as his teacher described in his lesson on the Sea of Shadows and Time is a River – and that Greenseers will be able to see through “gates” into the past.

Bloodraven answers Bran’s question Will I see my father again?” WITH “Once you have MASTERED your gifts, you may look where you will and see what he trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or A THOUSAND AGES PAST” (ADwD 458).

So, if Bran goes to his alcove and travels about 6000-7000 years into the past – he sees the ancient Kings of Winter march by, and a possible blood sacrifice – and then he tastes the blood IN THE PAST as though it is spilled PRESENTLY – does this mean that Bran has “mastered his gifts”? That is, according to Bloodraven?

I think this little event is proof that Bran’s gifts are well on their way to surpassing their teacher’s.

Did anyone notice that Bloodraven cuts the lesson short with “I am tired”. I bet he is tired – he has a greenseer prodigy on his hands, OH MY!