Star Wars Novels/Graphic Novels

[Werthead]

Heir to the Empire was supposed to be an "official" continuation of Return of the Jedi. From the dust jacket text of the hardcover edition:

It's the only reason anyone gave a toss about it. The marketing made a big thing about it being canon specifically because they knew it would shift more copies than if it was like Star Trek and the tie-in books were completely meaningless.

I read Heir to the Empire, but honestly with what I have heard of it, I was expecting.... more. It was a fun read and I enjoyed it, but the story was not anything special or unique to me. Or perhaps I should finish the entire trilogy, as it may be one of those tales where you need to have read all the parts to truly appreciate it.

It's a very different context now to when it came out. In 1991 there'd been no proper new Star Wars stories apart from the Han Solo/Lando books and a few comics about ten years earlier. There were no video games apart from ones based directly on the films, and Droids and Ewoks had both faded into obscurity. The Star Wars mythos consisted solely of the three movies, as far anyone was concerned about it. That's a very situation to now.

So is the problem that Lucas declared the novels and games canon? Despite the every present possibility that there could be more movies or shows ? Creating a fandom who carries the expectations that future film and/or television projects would follow that established blueprint?

Lucas only declared that post-1991 material would count because he'd decided to drop VII-IX and only make I-III. The subsequent canon hierarchy and other issues all arose in relation to Eps I-III and not post-RotJ stuff, which would not be affected. This position only strengthened after Ep III came out and Lucas made it clear he was done with the films as he couldn't handle the criticisms.

[First of My Name]

Has anyone read the new canon books? Are they worth reading? I've heard mixed things.

[TheRevanchist]

Canon or non canon has little to no bearing for me. I understand and empathize with those who were upset by the discarding of the EU and the money and time they invested into those books and storyline. I get that, at the time, books like Labyrinth of Evil were promoted as the official prequel to Revenge of the Sith. It still doesn't change the fact, for me personally, that if I enjoy the book, I'll read it and not view it as any less, despite its non canon categorization. If the book is good, read the book for your enjoyment. Who cares if Disney says it doesn't count. If these new books in the official canon story line are good, read them as well. I don't reall understand some of these individuals who are refusing to read them as a form of protest for the trashing of the old EU, which was a convoluted mess since new Jedi Order and even before hand with some old Bantam material. Those books are still out there, available to buy for your enjoyment. They haven't been taken away from you at all. Bottom line, for me, if you enjoy the book then read it and who cares if a company says it doesn't matter. It takes nothing away from you or the enjoyment of the book. Just as these new books don't add anything to my enjoyment cause they are official. New Dawn was enjoyable. Tarkin was so so and Heir to the Jedi sucked. Legend tag or not.

Also the rebooting has been a drastic improvement with the comics in my opinion. Both the new Star Wars comics and the Darth Vader comics have been superb so far.

Also, even though they are classified as Legend material, I really believe Disney won't even open the door to adding new material to prequel era. They seem to have no desire to touch that material and those books will be the "official" storyline for that era. The only book that is coming out in that era is the book to tie up Ventress' storyline from the clone wars show.

It would be quite difficult to enjoy reading for the relationship of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade if we see in the new movies that his wife is actually a blonde Nomi Sunrider *

* You know, the chick from Tales of the Jedi.

Obviously this is a hyperbole, but you get the point.

Anyway, leave everything pre-A New Hope and Thrawn Trilogy untouched and I will deal with it. Touch them, and I am done with them. I guess most of the other people have their own restrictions too.

[First of My Name]

It would be quite difficult to enjoy reading for the relationship of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade if we see in the new movies that his wife is actually a blonde Nomi Sunrider *

* You know, the chick from Tales of the Jedi.

Obviously this is a hyperbole, but you get the point.

Anyway, leave everything pre-A New Hope and Thrawn Trilogy untouched and I will deal with it. Touch them, and I am done with them. I guess most of the other people have their own restrictions too.

Why would it be harder to enjoy? The relationship between Luke and Mara is not more fictional or less fictional regardless of what the movies portray.

[underarmsauce]

Lucas never really considered the books, comics, games, etc to be canon at all from past interviews.

"STARLOG: The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?

LUCAS: I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

I think that's probably the best way to not get upset about the discarding of the EU. As I said before, they are stories to be enjoyed, but for the man who created the universe and franchise, it was separate entity from the story he told in the movies and tv series.

[Jaxom 1974]

It's the only reason anyone gave a toss about it. The marketing made a big thing about it being canon specifically because they knew it would shift more copies than if it was like Star Trek and the tie-in books were completely meaningless.

It's a very different context now to when it came out. In 1991 there'd been no proper new Star Wars stories apart from the Han Solo/Lando books and a few comics about ten years earlier. There were no video games apart from ones based directly on the films, and Droids and Ewoks had both faded into obscurity. The Star Wars mythos consisted solely of the three movies, as far anyone was concerned about it. That's a very situation to now.

Lucas only declared that post-1991 material would count because he'd decided to drop VII-IX and only make I-III. The subsequent canon hierarchy and other issues all arose in relation to Eps I-III and not post-RotJ stuff, which would not be affected. This position only strengthened after Ep III came out and Lucas made it clear he was done with the films as he couldn't handle the criticisms.

If I'm understanding, the belief is that the post Episode VI stuff, after 1991, being declared canon by Lucas himself is what led to the very large, sorta convoluted at points, expanded universe?

No one believes that couldn't have happened anyway?

I guess what I've poorly been asking is: Would there be such a fuss if Lucas doesn't say things are official?

[TheRevanchist]

Why would it be harder to enjoy? The relationship between Luke and Mara is not more fictional or less fictional regardless of what the movies portray.

For the same reason that I would have had hard to enjoy Game of Thrones if Ned Stark married Cersei Lannister and had then a happy life until the end of time.

[First of My Name]

For the same reason that I would have had hard to enjoy Game of Thrones if Ned Stark married Cersei Lannister and had then a happy life until the end of time.

But would the fact that the show went that way keep you from enjoying the book?

[Castel]

But would the fact that the show went that way keep from enjoying the book?

Imagine if GRRM then decided to rewrite the book (or just write a new one) to match the show. Wanna know what happened to Arya in Braavos? Lol.

That's the situation.

[First of My Name]

Imagine if GRRM then decided to rewrite the book (or just write a new one) to match the show. Wanna know what happened to Arya in Braavos? Lol.

That's the situation.

Even if that was the situation, the original will always be there for you to enjoy.

I understand why people are upset, but I don't understand the claims that this somehow ruins the fun for them.

[Castel]

Even if that was the situation, the original will always be there for you to enjoy.

I understand why people are upset, but I don't understand the claims that this somehow ruins the fun for them.

So what you mean is "I get the problem, except for this other bit that I don't get"?

But: the end of things matters. People reacted negatively to Battlestar Galactica and certain plots it had because of how they were dealt with, even if the show actually ended because the end affected the plots.

[First of My Name]

So what you mean is "I get the problem, except for this other bit that I don't get"?

But: the end of things matters. People reacted negatively to Battlestar Galactica and certain plots it had because of how they were dealt with, even if the show actually ended because the end affected the plots.

I get that people are upset that the new timeline will be the official one, but I don't see how the existence of another timeline will keep them from enjoying the first one. Sure, I'd be upset if the above example happened and the show paired Ned with Cersei. But that wouldn't make reading AGOT any less fun.

I don't get your last statement. How is that situation similar to the one Star Wars is in?

[Castel]

I get that people are upset that the new timeline will be the official one, but I don't see how the existence of another timeline will keep them from enjoying the first one. Sure, I'd be upset if the above example happened and the show paired Ned with Cersei. But that wouldn't make reading AGOT any less fun.

You and I seem to be talking about different things or we have markedly different opinions.

It's not just that Ned and Cersei got together. It's that GoT is dead. That show or book you liked is now dead and everything is Ned/Cersei.

As for the example: part of fiction isn't just about the journey but also the conclusion. If Martin wrote a silly ending with Ned turning out to be Littlefinger in a latex mask it would suck. If Martin never finished the series it would suck. And that's the issue.

Parts of the story are still fun but a bad ending hangs over everything.

[First of My Name]

You and I seem to be talking about different things or we have markedly different opinions.

It's not just that Ned and Cersei got together. It's that GoT is dead. That show or book you liked is now dead and everything is Ned/Cersei.

As for the example: part of fiction isn't just about the journey but also the conclusion. If Martin wrote a silly ending with Ned turning out to be Littlefinger in a latex mask it would suck. If Martin never finished the series it would suck. And that's the issue.

Parts of the story are still fun but a bad ending hangs over everything.

Probably the latter. I think the journey is more important than the ending, and while I agree that an ending like what you described would absolutely suck, it wouldn't make GOT dead to me. I like the story too much to let say goodbye to it all based on one weird choice on the writer's part. And it's pretty much the same with SW (except that I don't mind the reboot, I'm curious for the new movies and the EU wasn't as enjoyable as it used to be anyways. If anything, this means MORE Star Wars, because the movies will spur way more publishings than we would've had without them.

[Werthead]

If I'm understanding, the belief is that the post Episode VI stuff, after 1991, being declared canon by Lucas himself is what led to the very large, sorta convoluted at points, expanded universe?

No one believes that couldn't have happened anyway?

I guess what I've poorly been asking is: Would there be such a fuss if Lucas doesn't say things are official?

Yes. As far as can be told, Lucas wanted everything to be official and canon. Even Splinters of the Mind's Eye was canon for a year or two until the plot of Empire Strikes Back rendered it impossible. Lucas was offered a lot of money for post-RotJ books several times but turned them down, only greenlighting a couple of prequel trilogies with Han Solo and Lando. He didn't want anything interfering with VII-IX. Then he decided not to do them and only do I-III, and at that point said yes to the books.

It could have happened anyway, but it didn't.

And yes, if Lucas had said, "Nothing is canon at all, none of it counts," like the Star Trek guys, people would be less annoyed. The EU would also not have sold anywhere near as many novels and comics as it did and made as much money as it did.

[Darth Richard II]

I'm not sure what not getting an ending we are referring to here? Fron what I remember the final EU books timeline wise tied into the Legacy era comic pretty well and I thought those had a decent ending.

[Castel]

I'm not sure what not getting an ending we are referring to here? Fron what I remember the final EU books timeline wise tied into the Legacy era comic pretty well and I thought those had a decent ending.

HM...thinking about it you might actually be right. I think Fate of the Jedi was supposed to close the gap between the two (EU novels and comics) but I didn't think it was definitive yet -even though some of the signs were clear in the earlier books.

But then, I never got into the Legacy stuff. At this point I can't even remember why I hated it, just that I did.

[Darth Richard II]

Well everything after

Mara Jade's death can go to hell and die. Honestly, them rebooting the EU means fucking dark force space Cthulhu is gone. although she ended up being an alien that was mad she got dumped. Ug, be right back, banging head against wall.

[Castel]

Well everything after

Mara Jade's death can go to hell and die. Honestly, them rebooting the EU means fucking dark force space Cthulhu is gone. although she ended up being an alien that was mad she got dumped. Ug, be right back, banging head against wall.

Funny, I always pegged you as the sort of guy that would quit after

Sadomasochistic grimdark aliens with biotech overran the galaxy because everyone is a moron

I didn't think you'd dig past all that. :P

[Darth Richard II]

I'm a giant Star Wars fanboy. I read all of it. :/

Edit: Also what I find kinda of funny and yet still annoying is

the people who are mad that mara jade won't be in the new movie, when if they did follow the EU..she wouldn't be in it anyway, She dead. And if she wasn't, she would be like 70 anyways.