snowleper Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Unintentional? And then having a white woman play a Native American - this tells me that they knew exactly what they were doing. How successful they were is of curse debatable, but they were certainly aware of what they were doing.I think there is a perception that anybody 'could' be native in this country - which goes for white ladies who claim to have an ancestor or two who might have been a Cherokee princess.They really needed to tone down the cliches with these characters, but they didn't - mostly because I don't think any of the writers wrote them to be anything other than an ethnic side character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Seems like there was more than a bit of unintentional racism in the shows depiction of Native Americans, not to mention Dong, the Vietnamese character.There are some good things here, but the show really smacks of unexamined white girl privilege - which is obnoxious.Everyone seems to see racism everywhere these days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think there is a perception that anybody 'could' be native in this country - which goes for white ladies who claim to have an ancestor or two who might have been a Cherokee princess.They really needed to tone down the cliches with these characters, but they didn't - mostly because I don't think any of the writers wrote them to be anything other than an ethnic side character. I actually thought there was a bit of depth to the Native American parents. It was clear that they feel pressure/responsibility to maintain and value their own traditions but are not completely described by them, eg. when the Father says: "That’s why we came all this way in the great iron eagle. I’m kidding. I know what planes are; I was in the air force." Quotes like that show that they are not just archetypes constrained only to representing "American Indian Family", but actually have a back-story. It acknowledges their humanity beyond the basic needs of the plot (or at least that of the father...), which IMO is what you're looking for if you're trying to decide whether a side-character is done well. I mean, I'd be keen to hear what someone of that ethnicity felt about their representation on the show (are you of that descent?) - but personally I felt like the characters they presented had enough nuances and foibles to be acceptable characters rather than lazy stereotypes. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'm on my phone so I cant link properly but here are some interesting articles on this topic: A native fans opinion on the subplot (positive)http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/mobile/2015/03/18/why-kimmy-schmidts-native-subplot-great-native-fans-opinion-159632another article on watching the show as a native american:http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/tina-fey-kimmy-schmidt-race/These two are pretty positive but there are articles that dont like the subplot at all. I thought it was pretty smart and I wanted to comment on it earlier but wasn't sure how to phrase myself. It's highlighting the privilege someone "white-passing"can be afforded, both parents of Jacqueline are native actors and it includes some pretty self aware jokes like mexicans playing native americans. Whether or not the subplot necessarily worked for people in bringing awareness I really don't think it came from a place of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Just finished this, I really enjoyed it. I know people have already complained about the lawyers. I didn't find them that annoying, but it's baffling to me that the writers are going for OJ Simpson trial jokes in 2015... Also it sorta wasted Tina Fey on a bland character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Just finished this, I really enjoyed it. I know people have already complained about the lawyers. I didn't find them that annoying, but it's baffling to me that the writers are going for OJ Simpson trial jokes in 2015... Also it sorta wasted Tina Fey on a bland character. I found that pretty baffling as well. OJ as a cultural reference... so dated. Overall, I thought the show was okay. Ellie Kemper is really the main selling point for me. She's just so charismatic and so good at selling her character. The problem I have with the show, which is the same problem I had with 30 Rock, is that sometimes the comedy is just... too broad for me. And, if I'm being honest, Titus Andromedon bugs the ever-loving shit out of me. His character is so over the top. He grew on me as the season went on, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowleper Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I actually thought there was a bit of depth to the Native American parents. It was clear that they feel pressure/responsibility to maintain and value their own traditions but are not completely described by them, eg. when the Father says: "That’s why we came all this way in the great iron eagle. I’m kidding. I know what planes are; I was in the air force." Quotes like that show that they are not just archetypes constrained only to representing "American Indian Family", but actually have a back-story. It acknowledges their humanity beyond the basic needs of the plot (or at least that of the father...), which IMO is what you're looking for if you're trying to decide whether a side-character is done well.It irritates me that writing a character as a stereotype, and then acknowledging that with a few lines of self reproach can be considered anything other than lazy writing. I wouldn't necessarily call anything in the show overtly racist, but there is this sense of soft bigotry in the show that really nags at me, and part of that seems to be the unconscious comfort of the writers depicting non-whites as cultural approximations rather than as human people who happen to also not be white. And at the very least I think this was a very bad choice on their part.The show isn't as bad when it comes to Titus, but it is still kinda rough seeing another example of white women more or less accessorizing gay characters. I've read Bossypants, so it doesn't surprise me at all that Tina Fey would do this.Another thing that irritates me about the show is that it is depicting this white lady with a 8th grade education flawlessly moving to New York and succeeding almost instantly with very little effort (perhaps because she is a white woman), when other characters who seem to be more educated and who seem to work much harder than her (Dong for instance) struggle much more than she seems to.The choice to make Jane Krakowski play a native american really didn't help my estimation of any of this - partly because I'm certain there are a few native american actresses around who could have really used the part (and pulled it off better), and because it is just another overt example of white appropriation of native american culture and imagery. And there is certainly plenty of that around.Occasionally I hear somebody say that the racial humor being depicted here is somehow subversive because it is self-aware, and I would really have to disagree. Even if a racial cliche is self-aware, it doesn't stop being a racial cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Titus Andromedon bugs the ever-loving shit out of me. His character is so over the top. He grew on me as the season went on, but still. I felt the opposite of this. I loved him at first but by the end of the season I was just tired of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I felt the opposite of this. I loved him at first but by the end of the season I was just tired of him. I'm kinda the same way, really. I still liked him but by the end was a little bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Titus delivered my favorite joke of the season, about how all of his coworkers at the monster restaurant would be laughing at him like "mwhahahaha." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sati Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I felt the opposite of this. I loved him at first but by the end of the season I was just tired of him. I loved him throughout the season. That accident on live TV was so funny :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I was kind of underwhelmed by this. It didn't do much that was particularly interesting with the premise, most of the jokes and characters would have been perfectly at home on any other sitcom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The lead actress is an incredible talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haleigh Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm in the minority for sure, but I can't stand the show. I tried and got to the 6th episode but it just wasn't funny at all to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elder Sister Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hahaha...Titus is from Chickasaw, Mississippi.This show is pretty cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Can't stop watching Ellie Kemper's face. It's hypnotic. Just when I think it can't stretch out anymore the next scene comes along and she looks even happier. It's amazing Agreed. She's the MPDG that NBC wishes was still working for them. She's Zooey Deschanel with, I hate to say it, better comedic timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I found that pretty baffling as well. OJ as a cultural reference... so dated. Overall, I thought the show was okay. Ellie Kemper is really the main selling point for me. She's just so charismatic and so good at selling her character. I think the OJ thing is along the same lines as all the other 90s references on the show - it's about the last bit of pop culture Kimmy remembers. While I appreciate 80s nostalgia as it infuses into pop culture, I actually remember and grew up in the 90s, so this is a welcome trend. (Although interestingly Ellie Kemper is a couple years older than me even so!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think the OJ thing is along the same lines as all the other 90s references on the show - it's about the last bit of pop culture Kimmy remembers. I don't think Kimmy chose the lawyers to prosecute the reverend, so I don't really think that reasoning works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenhair Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I enjoyed binge-watching the show, and as ST mentioned, Dean Norris as Titus' acting coach was amazing. Carol Kane and the theme song are the two stand-outs for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Somebody's Kimmy Schmidt cosplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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