Why is Jon snow's parentage even relevent?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Aegon isn't a close relative to Jon. He would be if he were the real thing, but he isn't. The House of the Undying prophecies suggest a future romantic connection between Dany and Jon

Aegon believes that. It's going to be what the public believes. Genes doesn't matter in that regard.

I read your points as your own opinions and Jon is never going to care about most of these or have same opinions like you do.

Just because their ideals are different they are not going to be against each other.I don't see Dany fighting Rhaegar's son.I don't see him hating his closest living blood relative because she has different ideals. Sure Targaryens have some worst traits,so do others.The wildlings have some worst traits,still he doesn't despise them.He loved one of the wildlings even if she had different ideals.He loves and respects Aemon who is a Targaryen. So I disagree that he will despise his heritage.

Well, just look at what Jon thinks of Ser Axell Florent. GRRM didn't put that parallel there just for shit and giggles.

Jon isn't going to hate Dany, that's too strong an emotion. But he will oppose her.

[239JMFL34109]

It's going to affect him personally, obviously. It could also be used to explore what it means to be a parent (Rhaegar is sperm donor, Ned is the parent). It could explain a bit more about the situation with Rhaegar and Lyanna. There are mysteries tied to all of these characters that need to be worked out, and L+R could be used to do that. Here's to hoping that Martin doesn't turn this into a book-long whinge fest by Jon. I'm also hoping that nothing too cheap and easy comes of it, like the big reveal used to get Jon on a dragon.

Edit: Jon, like Bran, has a "third eye," which he needs to open. tbh I'm far more interested in that moment.

i feel like this will be the same moment he needs to let go all the outside things he uses to define what kind of man he will be. he doesn't open the eye now to me because "good men" according to popular opinion are not wargs or etc...

[The Sleeper]

Im not saying that Jon should be jumping from joy that he is a Targaryen but honestly why should he hate that he is related to them?

Contrary to what others think not everybody hated the Targs, Westeros as a whole doesn't seem to have had a problem with them so why should Jon whose hero was a Targaryen?

The Targs don't look any worse from thoes Starks that spent centuries taking the North killing children, extincting houses and doing other despicable evil things in their control of the North.

We don't know how Jon feels about the Targaryens as a whole so him having bad feelings about them is made up.

And anybody who is just told that the man who raised him wasn't his father would feel some animosity that he was lied to Jon getting mad at Ned for lying to him is a natural human reaction.

But the Starks are not everybody. They were arguably the most heavily aggrieved and they were at the forefront of the fight. And this is not ancient history as the Young Dragon, but events his father(s) actively participated in. As to Jon's current feelings to Targaryens, I doubt he has any strong ones. He's had little reason to dwell on things. But were he to know his heritage would force him to have feelings and nearly all the raw materials he has to form them with are negative.

As for why would he blame Rhaegar rather Ned over being lied to? Because it would be much easier for him to blame the unknown Rhaegar, for making the lie necessary than Ned for having told it, both logically and emotionally.

[SummerSphinx]

What brings you to the assumption that Azor Ahai can't be a dragonrider?

I tend to the option that he will be both.

Possible!

While there are some similarities between our world and the world created in ASOIAF, the novels lead me to believe that we are supposed to take blood, DNA, family traits, and king's blood seriously.

Not only would many characters perceive it to be significant (Mel, Dany, Aemon if he'd lived), I think we are supposed to believe that some types of powers are genetic (dragonriding, Warging, defeating the Others).

It isn't absolute, but it is a factor.

I don't think the PtwP is going to be an exact repeat of the Last Hero. I think the presence of dragons will be a huge variation.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Jon's parentage was never relevant to the story Look at the mains a cripple boy, a dwarf , a craven ,a naïve young girl ,a lost princess , an orphan girl and a bastard. All of these people are marginalized on the lower rung of society , and its these people who are going to save the world . Not Jon Stark or Jon Targaryen but a lowly Jon Snow .

[The Wolves]

But the Starks are not everybody. They were arguably the most heavily aggrieved and they were at the forefront of the fight. And this is not ancient history as the Young Dragon, but events his father(s) actively participated in. As to Jon's current feelings to Targaryens, I doubt he has any strong ones. He's had little reason to dwell on things. But were he to know his heritage would force him to have feelings and nearly all the raw materials he has to form them with are negative.

As for why would he blame Rhaegar rather Ned over being lied to? Because it would be much easier for him to blame the unknown Rhaegar, for making the lie necessary than Ned for having told it, both logically and emotionally.

Okay Aerys had Brandon and Rickard killed but tell me how should their deaths affect Jon's decisions on how he should feel about the Targaryens?

Rickon and Brandon are only his grandfather and uncle who he never met tell me why it matters? And all Rhaegar did was take Lyanna you keep thinking he's going to blame him for Robert's Rebellion when there are other factors that explains Rhaegar's actions and Jon will probably understand. And again Ned did not install any negative feelings of the Targaryens in his children Jon doesn't have even with the "raw material" that he supposedly has.

And no Rhaegar didn't force Ned to lie to Jon about who he is Ned had 15yrs to do that, it was Ned who made that call Rhaegar isn't there. Ned had a choice it was him who decided that Jon couldnt know and let Jon run off never telling him.

[The Man from Nowhere]

I think his death/ near death experience will also involve him discovering the secret of his birth and thus he will return as the Joninator

[khal drogon]

Well, just look at what Jon thinks of Ser Axell Florent. GRRM didn't put that parallel there just for shit and giggles.

Jon isn't going to hate Dany, that's too strong an emotion. But he will oppose her.

I disagree with your point that Dany is a kinslayer. Isn't it ironical that he himself has allied with a kinslayer?

Anyways why would he oppose her, when she has the thing he needs to fight the others. Dragons.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I disagree with your point that Dany is a kinslayer. Isn't it ironical that he himself has allied with a kinslayer?

Anyways why would he oppose her, when she has the thing he needs to fight the others. Dragons.

Please. Do reread the passage where Jon makes his feelings on Ser Axell Florent clear.

It's literally the same situation as the Dany/Viserys/Drogo one, just with the names replaced.

[kimim]

i feel like this will be the same moment he needs to let go all the outside things he uses to define what kind of man he will be. he will not open the eye to me because "good men" according to popular opinion are not wargs or etc...

Oh yeah, this is true. Jon is betrayed by (some) of his men, then discovers Ned was lying to him all along. He's lost the two things that define him, right there (The Watch, Ned). That could make him feel like he's got nothing left to lose, and lead to the opening of his third eye, and to some radical redefinition. Could be fun.

[The Sleeper]

Okay Aerys had Brandon and Rickard killed but tell me how should their deaths affect Jon's decisions on how he should feel about the Targaryens?

Rickon and Brandon are only his grandfather and uncle who he never met tell me why it matters? And all Rhaegar did was take Lyanna you keep thinking he's going to blame him for Robert's Rebellion when there are other factors that explains Rhaegar's actions and Jon will probably understand. And again Ned did not install any negative feelings of the Targaryens in his children Jon doesn't have even with the "raw material" that he supposedly has.

And no Rhaegar didn't force Ned to lie to Jon about who he is Ned had 15yrs to do that, it was Ned who made that call Rhaegar isn't there. Ned had a choice it was him who decided that Jon couldnt know and let Jon run off never telling him.

You are asking me why would Jon care about dead family members, when he cares about his family? I'm not sure how to answer that. If I had an uncle who was murdered before I was born, I certainly wouldn't have a positive opinion about his murderer. Maybe it's just me.

And all that Rhaegar did was take Lyanna? That is the generally accepted cause or at least pretext of the war. Jon wouldn't be doing the blaming. Everybody does. Granted they might not particularly care, but that is a different story. I don't understand. Are you claiming that because Ned didn't talk about it that the Stark kids grew up in complete ignorance over the events of Robert's Rebellion or of their house's allegiances and the side they fought for? Because that is what Jon would be basing his opinion of Targaryens as a house. As far as I know there isn't any contention of the generally accepted facts of the story. And if anything the tendency would be for maester Luwin to teach the kids a slightly biased version of events.

As for Ned vs Rhaeger, on one hand you have at best an unknown quantity and on the other the man who took in Jon and raised him as his own. Who would have the greater weight. And ultimately who is responsible for making Jon's existence a source of contention.

[The Wolves]

You are asking me why would Jon care about dead family members, when he cares about his family? I'm not sure how to answer that. If I had an uncle who was murdered before I was born, I certainly wouldn't have a positive opinion about his murderer. Maybe it's just me.

And all that Rhaegar did was take Lyanna? That is the generally accepted cause or at least pretext of the war. Jon wouldn't be doing the blaming. Everybody does.Granted they might not particularly care, but that is a different story. I don't understand. Are you claiming that because Ned didn't talk about it that the Stark kids grew up in complete ignorance over the events of Robert's Rebellion or of their house's allegiances and the side they fought for? Because that is what Jon would be basing his opinion of Targaryens as a house. As far as I know there isn't any contention of the generally accepted facts of the story. And if anything the tendency would be for maester Luwin to teach the kids a slightly biased version of events.

As for Ned vs Rhaeger, on one hand you have at best an unknown quantity and on the other the man who took in Jon and raised him as his own. Who would have the greater weight. And ultimately who is responsible for making Jon's existence a source of contention.

1. The Targs as a whole did not kill Rickard or Brandon you're trying to May like Jon should dislike Targaryens in general and I'm arguing there is no need to. Nor would I really hate on a dead man who killed two other men who died before I was born, I don't understand Jon hating all Targaryens because of two who he never met.

2. Nobody but Robert and a few probably blames Rhaegar for RR and again Ned doesn't hate any of the Targaryens the Stark children throughout the books don't either though I don't get people's need for the Starks to hate the Targs because they killed 2 people they never met.

[Mother of Dragons]

Very true but that is what is relevant. Sometimes the relevant things are the smallest.

He is Ned's son, and he is a version of Ned. Imagine if he was not like Ned, and the information came out. Say he was like Theon? How would people receive the R+L then? Perspective is everything. People will see Ned in Jon. After they find out that he is a Targ heir, people will justify standing behind him because he is very much like his father. That little bit can go a long way. Especially if he learns the truth and still has no desire to take the throne but instead desires to bolster the North against the WW. That will be paramount in the broader opinion of Jon.

The very fact that he will always be Ned's son will resonate with a lot of westerosi nobles.

Oh, sorry, I read your comment wrong^ I thought you were saying he's definitely Ned's son. :/

That's assuming he's Ned's son. I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that basically if he finds out he's someone else's son, it would affect him deeply on a psychological level. Also that Martin has made it relevant by leaving clues and inuendoes and that the theory is that once revealed, will have an impact on tying the plot lines together.

[239JMFL34109]

That's assuming he's Ned's son. I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that basically if he finds out he's someone else's son, it would affect him deeply on a psychological level. Also that Martin has made it relevant by leaving clues and inuendoes and that the theory is that once revealed, will have an impact on tying the plot lines together.

yes he love being ned's son how would this not effect him!!!

[The Sleeper]

1. The Targs as a whole did not kill Rickard or Brandon you're trying to May like Jon should dislike Targaryens in general and I'm arguing there is no need to. Nor would I really hate on a dead man who killed two other men who died before I was born, I don't understand Jon hating all Targaryens because of two who he never met.

2. Nobody but Robert and a few probably blames Rhaegar for RR and again Ned doesn't hate any of the Targaryens the Stark children throughout the books don't either though I don't get people's need for the Starks to hate the Targs because they killed 2 people they never met.

1. The Lannisters as a whole did not kill Ned, Robb, Bran, Rickon and Arya. What's Jon's opinion about them? He did mention something about wanting to rain death and destruction upon them.

2. Have you read an alternate version of events anywhere in the books? I don't recall one. They fought a war against one another. It tends to leave bad blood. Yeah, the Stark kids did not contemplate about what happened fifteen years ago to dead people, they were otherwise occupied.

And who are these people and what do they need? Ned's kids and Jon grew up with a version of events that has not been contested to my knowledge or to their hearing. Which way do you think their houses' history will slant their opinions toward? Hell, even Dany grew up with same version of events. She never knew Aegon, Rhaenys, Rhaegar or her mother for that matter.

[The Wolves]

1. The Lannisters as a whole did not kill Ned, Robb, Bran, Rickon and Arya. What's Jon's opinion about them? He did mention something about wanting to rain death and destruction upon them.

2. Have you read an alternate version of events anywhere in the books? I don't recall one. They fought a war against one another. It tends to leave bad blood. Yeah, the Stark kids did not contemplate about what happened fifteen years ago to dead people, they were otherwise occupied.

And who are these people and what do they need? Ned's kids and Jon grew up with a version of events that has not been contested to my knowledge or to their hearing. Which way do you think their houses' history will slant their opinions toward? Hell, even Dany grew up with same version of events. She never knew Aegon, Rhaenys, Rhaegar or her mother for that matter.

1. Are you seriously trying to compare Jon's feelings on an event that took the lives of 2 men who he never met to the fact that he lived through the destruction of what the Lannisters did to his family? He actually grew up with Robb, Ned, Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon of course he will feel anger and hatred towards the people who took away his home and family he knows them. Jon does not know Rickard and Brandon you thinking he will be mad at the Targaryens because of 2 dead men is stupid that's like saying he should be mad at Dorne because they killed a relative of his in Daemon's taking of Sunspear. He never knew them he's not going to hate the Targs because of Rickard and Brandon dying seriously.

2. And again the Starks don't hate the Targaryens there is no evidence that they do when did Ned think any negative thoughts about them or Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya? There is only bad blood on Dany's side about what went happened Ned got made when 2 Taragyens were killed and he tried to prevent Dany being killed. Ned holds no grudge against any Targaryen nor does any other Stark no matter what you think.

[239JMFL34109]

1. Are you seriously trying to compare Jon's feelings on an event that took the lives of 2 men who he never met to the fact that he lived through the destruction of what the Lannisters did to his family? He actually grew up with Robb, Ned, Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon of course he will feel anger and hatred towards the people who took away his home and family he knows them. Jon does not know Rickard and Brandon you thinking he will be mad at the Targaryens because of 2 dead men is stupid that's like saying he should be mad at Dorne because they killed a relative of his in Daemon's taking of Sunspear. He never knew them he's not going to hate the Targs because of Rickard and Brandon dying seriously.

2. And again the Starks don't hate the Targaryens there is no evidence that they do when did Ned think any negative thoughts about them or Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya? There is only bad blood on Dany's side about what went happened Ned got made when 2 Taragyens were killed and he tried to prevent Dany being killed. Ned holds no grudge against any Targaryen nor does any other Stark no matter what you think.

i don't think he will be mad or have strong feelings but he has heard of the madness of the prince who kidnapped his father's sister he probably doesn't have a good opinion about a man who unfairly or not is blamed for causing a war that ended his family line.

[BalerionTheCat]

- that his actual father was, at best, criminally irresponsible and his actions led to his mother's death and disgrace and caused a war and the death of his uncle and grandfather.

My belief is that, he and we, will know what happened exactly. And what is apparent today of Rhaegar and Lyanna will look differently then. Of course he will be a bit sad about not being the child of Ned, but of people he didn't know. But it will still better that not knowing anything about his mother. And being viewed as a bastard, with all that meant in this age.

[sagaz]

I think the keyword is "potential".

Since the Targaryens and their dragons came to Westeros, the kingdom that didn't fight them and actually knelt to them was the North. Knowing the overall things that we know about the people in the North and the Starks of old... nobody find that at least suspicious?

All we know is that Thorren Stark knelt (and where!) and that's it. I want to know why.

My pet theory is that Targs and Starks measured each other... The firsts had dragons (hey! that fire spitting creatures may be handy if the Long Night come again!) and the lasts had the ability to actually be inside animals (... (?) (?) (?)). The math is easy.

This is why I think they let each other be for centuries. The Targs married almost (or all?) the major houses in the Seven Kingdoms but the Starks. The potential is too dangerous.

We start the story with a Westeros that is very different from that, with the dragons extinct, with sayings and customs that seem to have lost their meaning ("there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" or "three horns means...") and a bastard boy who found some direwolves.

Why Jon's parentage is relevant? adding up to everything said upthread, is relevant because Jon may be the first product of Stark + Targ and this surely will have consequences. I don't know if he is going to skinchange into a dragon, but he potentially could.

P.S.: this is not crackpot, not a theory, not something I want to happen...it's only an impression I have.

[239JMFL34109]

My belief is that, he and we, will know what happened exactly. And what is apparent today of Rhaegar and Lyanna will look differently then. Of course he will be a bit sad about not being the child of Ned, but of people he didn't know. But it will still better that not knowing anything about his mother. And being viewed as a bastard, with all that meant in this age.

i would be cool if he found out about rhaegar being good and lyana loving rhaegar before the revelation about him being their son.