Morpheus

Preacher- AMC Comic Adaptation

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Really boring episode. What happened to being on the road for S2? I guess we're stuck in NO for the foreseeable future. I really wish they would have just cut Arseface from the show. He's one of the weaker parts of the comics, and he's even worse in the show. 

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Agreed.... the character worked in the comics because every once in a while they'd dedicate a few panels to his sub-sub-plot... and then get back to the story.... on TV... it just brings the show to a grinding halt.... if they treated the character right... he'd get 2-3 scenes per season, just to remind us that we're watching something really weird...lol

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20 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Really boring episode. What happened to being on the road for S2? I guess we're stuck in NO for the foreseeable future. I really wish they would have just cut Arseface from the show. He's one of the weaker parts of the comics, and he's even worse in the show. 

It was a cruel tease the first few episodes which was when the season was working really well. Now it's clear they are staying in louisiana all season. Probably into season 3 if Angelville comes into play.

It's weird as I pointed out at the start of the season how it was addressing all the problems I had with American gods. Now I'm feeling that there's probably 8 episodes between the two shows that are great. Their pacing issues are different though. American God's problem is in having a really scattered/sketch like focus and when it spends time on a group of characters it's much better. Preacher is best when rapidly moving through storylines - when they pause to focus on a plot it's really dragged out and dull. I guess in essence American gods doesn't spend enough time on good ideas while Preacher spends too much time on good ideas.

I don't hate Aresface as much as others seem to. I think it's the bizarre setting he's in and how he may wind up an antagonist for Preacher that keeps me interested. I don't really get "hell" though. My perception of hell is torture for being evil - whereas the show seems to treat it as a training ground for being more evil. Which doesn't feel right to me.

As for the rest of the episode. Tulip contiues to be angry. It's odd how she seems to have PTSD from her close encounter with SoK when we've seen her take on thugs and blow up helicopters with grenade launchers. It's pretty shitty of Jesse not to really notice or do anything to help her. Then again it seems to be a common theme in the episode - neither of them give a shit about Cassidy's situation despite him clearly wanting their help and advice. Cassidy's situation is interesting and I really applaud them making a dying mans last days look as horrible as they sadly often are. It makes it readily understandable why his son wants to be saved. The problem with the show (and with quite a lot of vampire fiction) is that they haven't really established much of a reason not to be a vampire. Cassidy is immortal and doesn't even need to kill people to exist. Most would swap out direct sunlight for that. Now, obviously it's being hinted that some people can become really fucking evil when turned (as implied by the phonecall) but using Cassidy as our only notion of vampires in this world - it really doesn't seem like a bad deal. The other problem with the storyline is that it's outstaying its welcome which goes back to the pacing problems with the show.

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

It was a cruel tease the first few episodes which was when the season was working really well. Now it's clear they are staying in louisiana all season. Probably into season 3 if Angelville comes into play.

It's weird as I pointed out at the start of the season how it was addressing all the problems I had with American gods. Now I'm feeling that there's probably 8 episodes between the two shows that are great. Their pacing issues are different though. American God's problem is in having a really scattered/sketch like focus and when it spends time on a group of characters it's much better. Preacher is best when rapidly moving through storylines - when they pause to focus on a plot it's really dragged out and dull. I guess in essence American gods doesn't spend enough time on good ideas while Preacher spends too much time on good ideas.

I don't hate Aresface as much as others seem to. I think it's the bizarre setting he's in and how he may wind up an antagonist for Preacher that keeps me interested. I don't really get "hell" though. My perception of hell is torture for being evil - whereas the show seems to treat it as a training ground for being more evil. Which doesn't feel right to me.

As for the rest of the episode. Tulip contiues to be angry. It's odd how she seems to have PTSD from her close encounter with SoK when we've seen her take on thugs and blow up helicopters with grenade launchers. It's pretty shitty of Jesse not to really notice or do anything to help her. Then again it seems to be a common theme in the episode - neither of them give a shit about Cassidy's situation despite him clearly wanting their help and advice. Cassidy's situation is interesting and I really applaud them making a dying mans last days look as horrible as they sadly often are. It makes it readily understandable why his son wants to be saved. The problem with the show (and with quite a lot of vampire fiction) is that they haven't really established much of a reason not to be a vampire. Cassidy is immortal and doesn't even need to kill people to exist. Most would swap out direct sunlight for that. Now, obviously it's being hinted that some people can become really fucking evil when turned (as implied by the phonecall) but using Cassidy as our only notion of vampires in this world - it really doesn't seem like a bad deal. The other problem with the storyline is that it's outstaying its welcome which goes back to the pacing problems with the show.

Agree with all of that.

I'd like to see more of Cassidy as a vampire as well, they haven't gone into that at all, or even really brought it up with the people he's travelling with. Just seems a wasted opportunity. 

I'm assuming that Arsehell is a set up for everyone to end up escaping hell, including Hitler, leading to a major plot line. At least I'm hoping thats what is going on.

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6 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Agree with all of that.

I'd like to see more of Cassidy as a vampire as well, they haven't gone into that at all, or even really brought it up with the people he's travelling with. Just seems a wasted opportunity. 

I'm assuming that Arsehell is a set up for everyone to end up escaping hell, including Hitler, leading to a major plot line. At least I'm hoping thats what is going on.

Maybe when/if he turns his son into a vampire we'll see more on the vampire side of things. It's a shame we haven't seen much on it since his cool intro fighting the vampire-hunters.

I hope Arseface's story gets us somewhere. I don't think they can do a "destroy the whole place/cast" again, can they?

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Posted (edited)

Agree with what others have posted. The ep. was a bit slow. But, there were some interesting points along the way. Cassidy's deep thoughts on immortality. Tulip's interaction with the new neighbor. Idea of using Genesis to fix Dennis was interesting. How would that work anyway? Jessie intoning "Hey, get better"? Would a person's body have to respond to that?  Or maybe "Dennis, don't feel any pain from the cancer" might work.  It would allow nature to take it's course without the awfulness of the situation. But, I'm probably thinking too hard on the details. After all, should Jessie ever shout "Don't move!" to someone, it creates a dilemma for that person, doesn't it? Would it stop involuntary movements? Could the person inhale/exhale? Would heartbeats stop also?

BTW, should Cassidy bite Dennis, yeah he'd "vampire up" and live forever... but... to forevermore be in constant pain? Ummm, wonder if they're  thinking of that. Maybe that's the reason Cassidy is so resistant to the idea?

Edited by Quoth

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On the whole, I am more and more convinced that this is just not a good showPutting aside any problems as an adaptation, the writing just isn't very good. It is strewn with good scenes, at times it hits upon a unique tone or perspective, but then it come crashing down with suffocating mediocrity. The Starr episode really highlighted its problems, everything with the German was great, irreverent, over the top, but the rest of it, following our gang of protagonists, was a drag. The show works when it acts as a live action adult oriented cartoon, when it tries to be a character driven drama and slows things way down, its flaws are highlighted. It feels like it wants to be an "AMC Prestige Drama" like Breaking Bad or Mad Men, but when they try to do moody and reflective they merely reach the level of The Walking Dead. It feels fresh when it focuses on crazy things, it is turgid when it has the characters work through how those crazy things affect them.

They should just focus on the pulp insanity and find a more natural approach to character development rather than pumping the brakes every few episodes to let everyone be tortured and morose. It feels like they are insisting upon a depth that is not there and the characters and writing just cannot support the slower pace as we saw this week.

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On 10/08/2017 at 3:08 PM, Quoth said:

Agree with what others have posted. The ep. was a bit slow. But, there were some interesting points along the way. Cassidy's deep thoughts on immortality. Tulip's interaction with the new neighbor. Idea of using Genesis to fix Dennis was interesting. How would that work anyway? Jessie intoning "Hey, get better"? Would a person's body have to respond to that?  Or maybe "Dennis, don't feel any pain from the cancer" might work.  It would allow nature to take it's course without the awfulness of the situation. But, I'm probably thinking too hard on the details. After all, should Jessie ever shout "Don't move!" to someone, it creates a dilemma for that person, doesn't it? Would it stop involuntary movements? Could the person inhale/exhale? Would heartbeats stop also?

BTW, should Cassidy bite Dennis, yeah he'd "vampire up" and live forever... but... to forevermore be in constant pain? Ummm, wonder if they're  thinking of that. Maybe that's the reason Cassidy is so resistant to the idea?

Maybe if he tells Dennis to "get better" he'd somehow contrive a way to be turned into a vampire? "Make the pain stop" surely would just resolve in suicide unless the voice can make people's pain receptors stop working. If they hadn't sent Arseface to hell it would be easier to hypothesize but thanks to the voice being able to do physically impossible things who knows what would happen.

Have they said being a vampire means living in constant pain? Like I mentioned, we know virtually nothing about vampires in this show which is what makes it frustrating when Cassidy who seems perfectly functional as a vampire has such grave reservations about turning people into vampires. Because if it's just "being lonely when mortals die" then creating immortal friends seems a good solution.

13 hours ago, Morpheus said:

 

They should just focus on the pulp insanity and find a more natural approach to character development rather than pumping the brakes every few episodes to let everyone be tortured and morose. It feels like they are insisting upon a depth that is not there and the characters and writing just cannot support the slower pace as we saw this week.

Oddly it's an inverse in the comics. I always felt it was at its best when being semi-serious and focusing on the characters. The worst parts were the OTT storylines. So I can see why the show tries to have the same mix but it's odd how it turns out so differently.

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

Maybe if he tells Dennis to "get better" he'd somehow contrive a way to be turned into a vampire? "Make the pain stop" surely would just resolve in suicide unless the voice can make people's pain receptors stop working. If they hadn't sent Arseface to hell it would be easier to hypothesize but thanks to the voice being able to do physically impossible things who knows what would happen.

Have they said being a vampire means living in constant pain? Like I mentioned, we know virtually nothing about vampires in this show which is what makes it frustrating when Cassidy who seems perfectly functional as a vampire has such grave reservations about turning people into vampires. Because if it's just "being lonely when mortals die" then creating immortal friends seems a good solution.

Oddly it's an inverse in the comics. I always felt it was at its best when being semi-serious and focusing on the characters. The worst parts were the OTT storylines. So I can see why the show tries to have the same mix but it's odd how it turns out so differently.

But we know it's not physically impossible.  After all, there are a ton of people in hell and we've seen people come and go from hell.  As far as I recall, we have no idea how Eugene arrived in hell.  

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5 hours ago, red snow said:

Oddly it's an inverse in the comics. I always felt it was at its best when being semi-serious and focusing on the characters. The worst parts were the OTT storylines. So I can see why the show tries to have the same mix but it's odd how it turns out so differently.

Ennis is a better writer. 

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He was dubbed Arseface by Cassidy, an Irishman. It isn't something his family and neighbors called him.

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7 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

But we know it's not physically impossible.  After all, there are a ton of people in hell and we've seen people come and go from hell.

Hell is full of souls, not physical people; under normal circumstances, when people die, their bodies remain behind on Earth. Though I guess in this universe they probably do get new physical bodies in Hell or Heaven, the same way angels get new bodies when they die. But season 1 Eugene has no way of knowing Hell is a physical place, and no way of knowing how to get there. Other than just killing himself, I guess, which leaves the question of where his original body ended up.

How the Saint of Killers works is another question. He has no soul, and his original physical body was killed, so how did he end up in Hell? Maybe there's a proper explanation of that still to come, but I doubt it.

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1 hour ago, felice said:

Hell is full of souls, not physical people; under normal circumstances, when people die, their bodies remain behind on Earth. Though I guess in this universe they probably do get new physical bodies in Hell or Heaven, the same way angels get new bodies when they die. But season 1 Eugene has no way of knowing Hell is a physical place, and no way of knowing how to get there. Other than just killing himself, I guess, which leaves the question of where his original body ended up.

How the Saint of Killers works is another question. He has no soul, and his original physical body was killed, so how did he end up in Hell? Maybe there's a proper explanation of that still to come, but I doubt it.

We watched the angels go to hell and come back (at least one did), we watched the SoK came out of hell.  There is an entrance to the supernatural world, including hell, at the most popular bus stop in the southwest.  So we know hell is an actual place.  I have no idea whether or not Eugene knows where hell is.  I don't recall them saying one way or another.  I do know that Eugene shot his face off and so may have had a very close encounter with hell and have more inside knowledge than what has been explicitly stated so far.  Then again, maybe one of Genesis' powers is to send people to other planes of existence.  But that's not needed since we know there are ways to get into hell from the actual world.  

 

Edited by Dr. Pepper

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my point was more that if the voice can send people to hell then it can probably cure people too.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

my point was more that if the voice can send people to hell then it can probably cure people too.

I just don't get it.  How does sending someone (presumably) through an actual door that exists somehow translate to making cancer cells disappear?  They aren't similar at all.  

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I just don't get it.  How does sending someone (presumably) through an actual door that exists somehow translate to making cancer cells disappear?  They aren't similar at all.  

Yeah, I don't see that as being viable either given the example of Jesse commanding Cassidy to fly. He can't make you do something that it's impossible for you to do. Maybe if you believe that the human body is capable of healing itself from cancer and we simply don't have the means or knowledge to will that into happening, I suppose. 

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I have to wonder if it's different in the comic and that's where the confusion is from?   Because walking through a door isn't the same as disappearing into thin air, which is what's being compared here.  

Of course, it could always be that going to hell was literally disappearing into thin air, but hell is an actual place where we've seen souls reside and people come and go.  

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24 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I have to wonder if it's different in the comic and that's where the confusion is from?   Because walking through a door isn't the same as disappearing into thin air, which is what's being compared here.  

Of course, it could always be that going to hell was literally disappearing into thin air, but hell is an actual place where we've seen souls reside and people come and go.  

I think the scene with Jesse commanding Cassidy to fly was lifted straight out of the comic, so I think the show has pretty much more or less stayed true to the way Jesse's power worked in the comic.

As to the Hell issue, I think you are right. Hell is definitely a real place in this world. That said if Jesse commands you to "go to Hell" you would still need to have the knowledge of how to get there in order for you to obey the command in a literal sense. Like you'd need to know where one of the doors to it is, or you'd have to have the ability to create a portal of your own, or whatever. Failing that, you'd be compelled to follow the order to the best of your ability. Much like Cassidy does when he's commanded to fly. He can't fly obviously, so he runs around obsessively flapping his arms, etc, etc. If left to his own devices he might eventually try to launch himself off a height or whatever.

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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