Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V13 [show spoilers, book spoilers past OP]

[Chebyshov]

Yeah, that's what I think. The show favours shock over all else, and in this case the obvious answer (Jaime) is the correct one.

Probably, but why include it at all then? This doesn't "give away" Tommen and Myrcella's deaths?

[ni2tre]

Maggy the Frog is one of the worst "plot twists" (if that's how we can call it) in ASOIAF so I'm glad they cut most of the prophecies, the only regret would be that they didn't ommit it all.

Cerseis paranoia and fear for her children and Margaery hate doesn't need any further explanation, it's all understandable.

[sati]

And she thinks he killed her son. And he killed Tywin.

Yes but I'm talking about reasons why Cersei hated Tyrion from the start

Since they've never mentioned that jaime is the younger twin, I don't see how him being the valonqar would have been too obvious on the show.

Not that he is valonqar but that she dies would be somewhat hinted at

[larastone]

What do we say to explaining the geography of Dorne via Olyvar/Loras sexposition? I mean that's pure D&D. :lmao:

_{And we were afraid people wouldn't be able to tell where Sunspear is.}

Wait, really?

[ambi76]

Wait, really?

Yup. Loras has a Dorne map on his leg. :dunno:

_{I guess people will just be glad it's not on his penis.}

[larastone]

Probably, but why include it at all then? This doesn't "give away" Tommen and Myrcella's deaths?

Because tommen and myrcella are more like plot devices than actual characters I guess.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

Can someone link me to the episode summaries? I'd rather not wade through 55 pages of the last thread. Thanks.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Can someone link me to the episode summaries? I'd rather not wade through 55 pages of the last thread. Thanks.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/03/18/game-of-thrones-season-5-a-detailed-spoiler-filled-review/

[iheartseverus]

I feel a bit disappointed that they've omitted the concept of the valonqar, specifically because of the loss of the beauty of the language. I remember when valar morgulis was first spoken, the excitement of non-book readers trying to suss out what it meant, and that eventually some fans began using it in real life, sort of in place of 'shit happens.' Another example, the lyrics of 'Rains of Castamere' are familiar now to every GoT fan in the world, and the concept being evoked can now be included in the real world. Language has beauty, it has power. I remember back in the book-only days before the series was even envisioned, the fun we had in arguing out whether valanqar referred to Cersei's younger brother(s) or to any younger brother and if so, which younger brother in the that world might in fact kill her. Show-only viewers will now never have that experience. A word is just a symbol of a concept. Other words/concepts that the show (versus the books) have lost: The dragons have never been named (as yet), Oberyn was never called the 'Red Viper,' which of course makes me wonder if the Sand Snakes will ever be introduced as the Sand Snakes, and if not, what's the point of that tower in Sunspear having a giant serpent coiling around it?

Anyway, just makes me a bit sad. New words that introduce new concepts are rich and exciting. Certainly, this isn't the most egregious fault in the translation from book to show, but nevertheless, just a bit sad.

[Arkash]

Oberyn was never called the 'Red Viper,' which of course makes me wonder if the Sand Snakes will ever be introduced as the Sand Snakes

Just to nitpick but he was called so once in season 4. (Tyrion in 408)

And I think some more people will refer to him as such in season 5, including the Sand Snakes, thus explaining their nickname a little bit more.

[ADanceWithCats]

It seems that the show is making three changes I will like and one I won't.

Those I will like:

- removing the 'he's going to kill you' part of the prophecy. Talk about spoilers!

- killing Mance for real, removing the glamour - I think that the positioning of the Mance burning in the episode indicates that it's the real Mance burning

- removing Illyrio, which I take as a further sign that fAegon will be removed down the plot.

The one I won't is definitely

Sansa in Winterfell, starting from LF giving up SweetRobin. Who the hell surrenders their pawn?!

[alcasinoroyale]

Can someone link me to the episode summaries? I'd rather not wade through 55 pages of the last thread. Thanks.

Here:

Cold Opening: Young Cersei and her friend Melara are walking through the woods after hearing of a fortuneteller called Maggy the Frog. They arrive in Maggy’s hut and Cersei begs Maggy for her fortune. Maggy answers her three questions. Maggy tells Cersei that she will be queen until one younger and more beautiful replaces her, that she will have no children with the king, but he’ll have twenty, and that her children will die. “Gold shall be their crowns, and gold their shrouds,” Maggy says. Melara is pulling at Young Cersei’s arm and urges her to leave. “Cersei, we have to go!” Melara says. Cersei awakes to discover that Tywin is dead.

King’s Landing

Cersei is in her palanquin being taken to Tywin’s funeral as the bells ring. She walks up the steps to the Sept of Baelor with Meryn Trant as Tywin’s casket being showcased. Cersei goes into the Sept of Baelor where the High Septon greets her. Cersei and Jaime are standing over Tywin’s corpse where she asks him if he is the one who freed Tyrion. Jaime says nothing, but feels a bit guilty. Cersei is furious and says, “At least Tyrion killed him on purpose, you killed him by accident.” Cersei talks about how Jaime acts without thought for the consequences. Jaime denies it, but Cersei knows him too well and knows he’s lying. She leaves him there alone with Jaime feeling very guilty.

Cersei feels like a lion drowning in a pool if golden roses, watching Margaery comfort Tommen while Loras is offering his condolences. She leaves the place without a look at Loras, walks into Pycelle, but avoids him. Cersei wants to be left alone, but then she walks into Lancel Lannister. She hardly recognizes him. Cersei speaks to her uncle Kevan Lannister about Tywin and he apologizes for his son’s ragged looks. Kevan informs her that Lancel has joined the Sparrows. Loras and Olyvar are in bed. Olyvar identifies a birthmark on Loras’s leg looking like Dorne. He points out the locations of Sunspear and Sandstone, and that there are mountains on the border. They start laughing and Margaery interrupts them saying that Loras is expecting at dinner. She sits down and politely suggests that Olyvar should leave. She advises Loras to be more circumspect, but Loras points that “everyone knows” and non-one cares. Later on, Cersei sees Lancel again who asks for her forgiveness for sleeping with her and tells her that he’s a changed man now. Lancel also discusses the nasty business with Robert’s “hunting accident”, but Cersei pretends she doesn’t know what he is talking about.

Pentos

Tyrion is looking through the crate and Varys opens it to reveal that they are in Pentos. Tyrion is shaken, drinks 8 cups of wine, and then vomits on Illyrio’s expensive carpet. Varys tells him that he and Illyrio have bet on the wrong Targaryen, but Tyrion is not interested in the Game of Thrones anymore. Tyrion and Varys enter Illyrio's palace to change their clothes. Tyrion and Varys speak outside on the balcony where Varys urges him to join him on his journey to Meereen. "You never told me why you set me free," Tyrion says. "Your brother asked me to," Varys says. "Could've said no," Tyrion says. "Refuse the Kingslayer, a dangerous proposition," Varys says. "Not as dangerous as releasing me. You risked your life, your position, everything...why? You're not family, You owe me nothing," Tyrion says. "I didn't do it for you. I did it for the Seven Kingdoms," Varys says. “A drunken dwarf will never be a savior of the Seven Kingdoms,” Tyrion says. "I don't believe in saviors. I believe men of talent have a part to play in the war to come," Varys says. “I will never sit on the Iron Throne," Tyrion says. “You could help another climb those steps and take that seat. You have your father’s instincts for politics and you have compassion,” Varys says. “Compassion? I killed my lover with my bare hands and I shot my own father with a crossbow,” Tyrion says. “I never said you were perfect,” Varys says. “What is it you want, exactly?” Tyrion says. “Peace, prosperity, A land where the powerful do not prey on the powerless. The seven kingdoms needs a ruler loved by millions with a powerful army and the right family name,” Varys says. Tyrion tells Varys, “Good lucking finding him.” Varys answers “Who said anything about him?” Tyrion agrees to join Varys on his journey to Dany as long as he can keep drinking.

Meereen

The statue of the Harpy is torn down from the Pyramid. At the foot, Stalwart Shield, known as “White Rat”, takes off his helmet and smiles. He walks into a brothel looking a whore to cuddle with. He pays the woman and she sings to him while he rests his head on her breast, but then a man masked with the face of the Harpy slits his throat. The whore and the man in a golden mask stand over him. Learning of this, Dany orders the Unsullied to patrol the streets. Missandei goes to Grey Worm to ask why an Unsullied would go to the brothel. He hesitates and then says that he doesn’t know. Daario and Hizdahr ride through the gates of Meereen. Hizdahr asks why the Unsullied are patrolling the streets. Daario gives some sarcastic answer and they report in to Dany. Dany and her council of Daario, Missandei, Barristan, and Grey Worm discuss how she must deal with this major problem threatening her rule. Hizdahr explains that Yunkai gave into all their demands and installed a democratic council. “Our diplomatic mission was a complete success. They have set up a council of freedmen and former slaves. In return we have agreed to some concessions.” Dany isn’t happy about it. “Concessions” she asks. “Politics is about the art of compromise.” Dany says, “But I’m not a compromise. I’m a queen.” Barristan gives a slight smile. Hizdahr tells Dany to reopen the fighting pits, but she refuses. There is a lengthy discussion about the fighting pits being opened or not. Hizdahr argues that it’s a part of the cultural heritage of Slaver’s Bay. Dany’s answer is still “No." In bed together, Daario tells Dany that she should open the fighting pits and talks about how he used to fight in them after being sold to them as a child. He also reveals that he is from Tolos and grew up there. He also says that she needs to reunite with her children. Dany is afraid she can’t control her dragons and doesn’t want another child to die, but she seeks out the dragons in the catacombs. When Dany arrives, her dragons Viserion and Rhaegal are not happy to see her. They have grown huge and angry and they attack Dany. All that keeps them from eating her are the chains. Dany, scared and horrified, escapes the catacombs and realizes that she has lost control of them completely.

The Vale

Sansa and Littlefinger are on a tour of the Vale. Sansa sits with Littlefinger and Yohn Royce as they watch Robin train, remarking how pathetic he is. Littlefinger seems to be the only one entertained, while Sansa looks bored and Royce looks concerned. Littlefinger mentions that he is leaving Robin in Lord Royce's care. Brienne is cleaning her sword. She gets mad at Pod for his questions and says, “I don’t want anyone following me. I’m not a leader. All I ever wanted was to fight for a lord I believed in. All the good lords are dead and the rest are monsters.” A convoy of Vale Knights with a carriage passes Brienne and Pod. Sansa and Littlefinger are inside the carriage talking about trust. Littlefinger tells Sansa that they will be going far away from Cersei Lannister's grasp.

The Wall

Jon practices with Olly in the yard. Sam converses with Gilly about Stannis and then a weakened Alliser comes out complaining about the weakness of the recruits. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis on the Wall. Jon takes the winch elevator to the top of the wall and on the ride up, Jon asks Melisandre about the cold. She says she doesn’t feel it. She then asks him if he’s a virgin. When Jon says no, she says “good.” Jon meets Stannis with Melisandre and Davos following close behind. Stannis reminds Jon that the man who put a dagger into Robb’s heart is now ruling over Winterfell and asks if Jon doesn’t want to avenge his brother. Jon informs him that he wants a great many things but his loyalty belongs to the Watch. Stannis tells Jon that many love him (Jon), and some don’t, and then goes on that he doesn't want to kill the Wildlings, he needs men to fight Roose Bolton after all. He wants them to kneel to him. He wants their king Mance to kneel to him. He gives Jon until nightfall to convince Mance to kneel. Jon hurries off to Mance and tries to convince him. Jon meets with Mance attempts to negotiate by saying, "You told me you weren’t here to conquer, you told me you had bled enough." Mance replies, "That’s right, but I don’t want them bleeding for Stannis Baratheon either." “For the first time in history, Thenns and Hornfoots, the Ice River Clans, even the Giants, a life’s work uniting them. You didn’t do it for power; you didn’t do it for glory…you brought them together to save them because none of them will survive the winter not if they’re north of the wall. Isn’t their survival more important than your pride?” Jon says. "Pride...Fuck my pride,” Mance says. In the yard of Castle Black, Mance is led out and tells Stannis, “Good luck in the Wars to Come.” Melisandre then burns Mance and Jon shoots him with an arrow before he starts screaming.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The one I won't is definitely

Sansa in Winterfell, starting from LF giving up SweetRobin. Who the hell surrenders their pawn?!

An idiot.

And in the show, LF is one, it seems.

[iheartseverus]

Just to nitpick but he was called so once in season 4. (Tyrion in 408)

And I think some more people will refer to him as such in season 5, including the Sand Snakes, thus explaining their nickname a little bit more.

Oh, thanks, I sure missed that reference!

[Mark Antony]

An idiot.

And in the show, LF is one, it seems.

:lol: it really makes little sense

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

An idiot.

And in the show, LF is one, it seems

Well, he did have multiple meetings with Sansa in broad daylight with multiple eyewitnesses, yet somehow expected to sail away with her with nobody suspecting that it was him that took her away.

[sati]

Can someone tell me if it's implied in premiere that Bri saw Sansa in Vale and was rejected?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

:lol: it really makes little sense

Of course. He's an idiot. The kind of idiot who let himself being grabbed by the balls by a little girl. Yeah, Jaqen also had this, but we know Arya has some serious wits... Sansa (showSansa, don't kill me), not that much. Unless we count she one day woke up and said "well, Cersei Lannister was right! I should use my other weapons!", but we know listening to Cersei Lannister is not exactly a proof of having wits but lacking them.

[Colonel Green]

Can someone tell me if it's implied in premiere that Bri saw Sansa in Vale and was rejected?

No, the premiere is clearly setting up them meeting in episode 2.

:lol: it really makes little sense

I guess it's worth acknowledging, Royce and Littlefinger are on the same page in the show, unlike in the books at present.

[AdmiralKyrd]

Also, just a slight correction to people saying Allam was entirely unavailable during the GoT shoot. His play did not go for the whole of the GoT shoot, the problem was that it overlapped with when they shot the scenes for his manse. It's still possible that he shows up later in the season. Him being name-dropped means he's not off D and D's radar at least.

I could see Varys showing back up in Pentos in 5.05/6 and having a scene like this:

*Varys knocks on the door to Illyrio's. A servant with a collar answers the door and lets him in. He walks into Illyrio's Chambers.*

ILLYRIO: Back so soon, Varys? And you're alone this time.

VARYS: *sighs* The dwarf escaped in Volantis.

ILLYRIO: Lannisters aren't to be trusted. You should have known that.

VARYS: You could have at least come out to see him when he was here.

ILLYRIO: There was nothing to see that I couldn't from here - throwing up on the balcony...

VARYS: *shrugs* There was something different about him. I admired him, in a way.

ILLYRIO: I heard you tell him about Daenerys. I trust you didn't tell him about-

VARYS: How long have we known each other, old friend? I trusted him, yes, but not that far.

ILLYRIO: I apologize for my suspicions, my friend. I didn't mean to offend.

VARYS: None taken. Decades of planning require vigilance.

ILLYRIO: Just so, if the dwarf were to tell anyone about any of... this... do you have any idea where he might have gone?

VARYS: Not in the slightest, but who would he tell, Illyrio? He has no friends.

ILLYRIO: With all the gold Cersei's put out on after his head, it's likely he's dead already.

VARYS: Slain by bounty hunters, a terrible thought.

ILLYRIO: There are worse. A man of his size alone... *amused* he could have been swallowed by a bear.

VARYS: Still, he could have made a great asset - perhaps we should have just kept him here.

ILLYRIO: Had I offered him hospitality he would have drunken my entire stores dry within a week.

VARYS: Not half as quick as his sister, I hear, that's... why I returned instead of sailing on to Meereen.

ILLYRIO: Cersei Lannister ... she's even dumber than that fool, Viserys.

VARYS: The Queen Regent stumbles from one idiocy to the next, helped along by her council of the dim and blind. I always knew with Tywin out of the way she'd make complete mockery of governance, but-

ILLYRIO: *with a look of concern* I never imagined it would happen so Fast!

*Varys nods his head, smiling at Illyrio completing his sentence like - yeah, it's Cersei.*

VARYS: When we last spoke beneath the Red Keep, you told me to delay - and I did, but now... I don't think the realm can wait.

ILLYRIO: Do you think we're ready? It would be a shame to lose the dragons.

VARYS: Truth said, Daenerys seems content to sit in Meereen. Elsewise, we've never been more ready.

ILLYRIO: Your friends?

VARYS: I believe they are more than eager themselves. But what about YOUR friends, Magister? I heard they just entered into a new contract with Myr.

ILLYRIO: They have their spotless reputation, but what does that matter with riches and castles aplenty awaiting in Westeros? Connington assures me they'll make new arrangements if necessary.

VARYS: Then I shall leave to meet with both of them as soon as possible. I'll... need some new little birds as well. It seems I've lost a few of them to Cersei's new spider.

ILLYRIO: The new batch is ready.

VARYS: And their tongues?

ILLYRIO: Is that really necessary? They're so young.

VARYS: Silence has its price.

ILLYRIO: Just so, I'll have them out immediately and the children sent down to the docks.

VARYS: Then the war has finally come. Soon the crown will return to its rightful ruler.

ILLYRIO: Soon the Seven Kingdoms will taste the bitter steel. *pops a cheese into his mouth*

VARYS: Until we meet again.

ILLYRIO: Til we meet again, my friend, in front of the Iron Throne.