Urban Fantasy / Paranormal Romance #2

[Mars447]

So, slightly off topic, but at the Image Comics Expo Greg Rucka and Nicola Scott announced their new series, Black Magick, a decidedly urban fantasy "witch noir" story about a Portsmouth (Virginia, I think) Robbery/Homicide detective who also happens to be a practicing witch. Naturally the barriers between her professional and personal life break down, shit happens, and thus we have an ongoing series.

Firstly, hell yes. This sounds awesome.

Secondly, how has this premise not been already snapped up as the basis of a UF series that I've heard of? It's simple and perfect in that simplicity.

And thirdly, how amazing would an actual print series with this premise written by Greg Rucka (and with Rucka's characterization, attention to detail, and giving a shit about the intricacies of police work) be?

[Lyanna Stark]

Just to explain, these are what I had to query my UK friends for help with on Facebook while reading Rivers of London:

I guess being a second language speaker, it is normal for me to not "get" all the references (although to be fair, I think I'd get around 80% of the ones in that list) and my dictionary gets a lot of workout. As it happens, I even have a master list of "words I did not know, but find useful to know". :p

On the other hand I should probably start one of those in my mother tongue as well as I think I am more up to date on British slang and newfangled words than I am on Swedish ones. :crying:

A lot of those are place names as well, and I suppose it depends a lot on whether you've been to an area or not to "get" if they are special or just window dressing. Why the hell anyone would like to go to Purley I don't know, although I guess it's better than Redhill?

Anyway, got the second Generation V novel now and it's all your fault. $7.49 poorer and with the Euro so cheap it's going to ruin me. :p

[peterbound]

Does Magic Bites get any better?

About a 1/4 of the way through, and it's just not…. good. The dialogue is choppy, the writing is mediocre, and some of the situations she finds herself in are fucking cringe worthy (i've literally rolled my eyes while reading it 4 times now).

Want to press on based on the glowing praise here… but I'm not sure if it's something I can finish. Surprised to see the authors get such high marks from the crowd.

[kairparavel]

Lyanna, Just to confirm, now that I am back home I checked my shelves and I do have an arc of The Shadow Revolution: Crown & Key. I shall let you know what I think when I get to it.

Which might be a few weeks as I do have Uprooted sitting here waiting to be read. Except I’m reading A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas for the third time. I am so torn about this book. Maas is a pretty well selling YA Fantasy author for her Throne of Glass series. I read the first book but had some major issues with it so haven’t read the rest. But the Thorns and Roses book is a new series and intrigued me so I picked it up.

It is not a YA novel, it’s being marketed as New Adult but really it really is Fantasy Romance. The first time I read it, I started off reading, got bored about a third through and skimmed straight through the rest, got to the end and was like…I think I need to go back. So then I read the last third. Now I’ve gone back to the beginning and am reading straight through and it’s kind of driving me batty as I alternate between giving it 2 stars and 4 stars. The writing quality isn’t great and there are double verb issues and predictability but on the other hand I can’t stop thinking about it and I’m reading it for the third time so there is some crack like quality to it.

What is it about? Well you’ve got your 18 year old heroine who is Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss. You’ve got your 500+ year old fae hero who looks like Lee Pace in the Hobbit. The first two thirds of the story is sort of straight up Disney version of Beauty and the Beast with a curse and fae. The last third of the book is sort of the Hunger Games / Tam Lin mashup. There are some elements of Cinderella as well. It’s sort of a mess but I like the assortment of characters and the potential of where things seem to be heading. Really, I just need another adult to read this book so I can talk about it with someone.

You've convinced me! I've just placed a library hold.

[Isabel]

@peterbound: i guess it depends on what you like. I dont think it changes that much during the series.

I love the dialogue. It makes me laugh and its straightforward.

[ants]

Anybody got suggestions for something similar to Patricia Briggs, Ilona Andrews and Carrie Vaughn? I'm desperate here. Kinda got tired of the Gail Carriger books, couldn't do Rivers of London (Jesus Christ its like we don't speak the same language) and enjoyed Mike Carey...

I went back and re-read the Expanse novels... I need something new now.

Based on liking Harrison/Briggs/Andrews/Vaughn/Carey I would suggest Karen Chance's books, the October Daye books, Deborah Dunbar's Imp series, Rachael Caine, Suzanne McLeod, Susan Ilene's Sensor series, Charlie Davidson, Stacie Kane's downside ghosts, JC Nelson's Grimm Agency series, Annette Marie, Tracey Martin's Miss Misery series, maybe Katie Moning's Darkfever, definitely Weis's Elantra series, possibly Hellquin and Alex Verses.

[emberling]

IA have often very clunky prose/dialogue (something is just off with their contractions or lack thereof) and depend a great deal on Rule of Cool, on wacky sitcom hijinx, on utter epic ridiculousness (not so much in book 1). Many people love that! But there is a very good chance it is just Not Your Cup Of Tea. Personally I literally fell asleep at about the 1/4 point (Kate was meeting Jim outside work or a morgue or something) but months later gave a second try, liked it a bit better, pushed through to the third book, and was totally sold by that. BUT if you know you hate popular books with poor prose and high epic silliness maybe dont bother.

@mars447:

interesting to hear a story set nearby (i am about 5 minutes and $3 in tolls from there)! I'm not really sure I understand what's interesting about the premise, but it could be fun.

[polishgenius]

I found Magic Bites to have its annoyances (holy shit Curran you're not cool get your stupid smug face out of my book), but I did enjoy it enough to plan to read more, especially since I'm told by a few people whose tastes I generally trust that it gets much better later on.

The impression I get is that it has the same sort of 'LOOK HOW COOL THIS STUFF IS' appeal as Dresden Files, with less snappy dialogue but also less off-putty sexual/gender politics, coz I know that's an issue for some Dresden readers. And that like Dresden it gets more confident and competent as it goes along.

[Mars447]

Andrews has some clunky prose, but it's generally pretty serviceable, and whenever Kate's internal perspective gets into be a little snarky it can be fun. I don't recall what's so cringeworthy about the first quarter of the first book. I mean, the last quarter of the first book can be pretty messed up what with all of the things the big bad gets up to, but that doesn't pop up until later on.

I have mixed feelings about the love interest, though. What the hell is it with female led UF and male love interests who are stronger than them by an order of magnitude or so? You don't see these female characters settling down for a muggle, or a quiet bookish type, or even anybody that they can take in a fight. And male UF leads have female love interests who are around the same power level or weaker.

Regarding Witch Cop, it's not a premise I've seen before, really. Most UF seems to be from the perspective of outsiders, so having a lead character who is both The Man (during the day) and a fringe minority in her personal life is an interesting mix. Plus, Rucka excels at writing soldiers/cops/PIs and so on, so the cop stuff isn't going to suck.

[polishgenius]

Regarding Witch Cop, it's not a premise I've seen before, really. Most UF seems to be from the perspective of outsiders, so having a lead character who is both The Man (during the day) and a fringe minority in her personal life is an interesting mix. Plus, Rucka excels at writing soldiers/cops/PIs and so on, so the cop stuff isn't going to suck.

Ben Aaronovitch's Peter Grant series (which Mandy didn't get into but many of us think is rather good :P) is about a cop who is a magician. It's a bit of a different perspective because he's a cop first who becomes a magician when he takes a witness statement from a ghost, and being a wizard is part of his job, but if that sort of thing interests you, it's worth a look.

[ljkeane]

Does Magic Bites get any better?

About a 1/4 of the way through, and it's just not. good. The dialogue is choppy, the writing is mediocre, and some of the situations she finds herself in are fucking cringe worthy (i've literally rolled my eyes while reading it 4 times now).

Want to press on based on the glowing praise here but I'm not sure if it's something I can finish. Surprised to see the authors get such high marks from the crowd.

I didn't like it. I pressed on through a few of the books because lots of people seemed like big fans but I didn't find it got any better. All the 'pack' shite was particularly annoying.

[Mars447]

I don't know how far you've read, and I don't want to spoil, but this is incorrect...

It's definitely true in the beginning. Thankfully the relationship does even out in later books

(and Curran becomes less of a controlling shit).

[Lyanna Stark]

I have mixed feelings about the love interest, though. What the hell is it with female led UF and male love interests who are stronger than them by an order of magnitude or so? You don't see these female characters settling down for a muggle, or a quiet bookish type, or even anybody that they can take in a fight. And male UF leads have female love interests who are around the same power level or weaker.

You need Generation V, is what you do. :P

I dunno, I think Kate proves even in the beginning that she stands her ground and holds her own. It has been a while since I read the first though, so maybe I should re-read before I commit to that :-)

I guess I should say, I certainly never saw their relationship being that way, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked that. I like my female protagonists kick-ass and unapologeticly independent.

She intentionally antagonizes him and definitely doesn't go cooing into his arms.

I dunno, especially in the beginning their relationship is well fucked up. Par for the course in UF, so not really that I could not use my shutters for (in fact, I can get past much worse stuff, after all I play The Witcher and only occasionally feel like I want to just rant and maybe punch something).

To paraphrase "Smart Bitches, Trashy Books" in romance as in UF, what is portrayed as True Love there is often what in real life would be a True Need for a restraining order.

It got a bit better after they officially moved in together and the absolutely exhausting mating/courting/whatever the hell shifter/pack terminology was chosen was actually over and done with. But then you have juvenile shit like

Curran smashing up a cargo ship full of cars because he was jealous. Because apparently he is 12 years old.

In general I often found the usage of the old romance trope "hero must Lose His Shit" as soon as anything has to do with the heroine overused and tiresome in a lot of Ilona Andrews writing. Not only is it tiresomely ridiculous that a guy who previously had all his mental faculties intact is suddenly reduced to some sort of howling cave-man type who can only interact with people around the heroine by way of a Really Big Club, but it's also dangerously close to "she made me do it" by way of being in need of manly protection/irresistible/really annoying in her womanly ways.

[ants]

Hmm, commenting on the Kate Daniels discussion:

Given that Kate and Curren don't have a formal relationship for many books, I think it is a little unfair the way the first book has been characterised. Especially since it is made clear from the "here kitty kitty" chant to Mahon having to pull them apart that she most certainly did stand up to him. Throughout the books she's portrayed as a power in her own right - just one hiding for a while at first. Yes, Curran is violent and dangerous in the first books, and if they had a relationship she'd have needed a restraining order. But he would have acted against any other minor merc of either gender who had questioned his authority like she did. That had nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with power. Was it a bit eff'd up? yeah, but lets face it in medieval societies it is a little par for the course. You cussed out a lord, his men took you down an alley and belted you up. Unless you had power.

On the regular romance tropes, I think if anything the Kate Daniels book is meant to shine a bit of a light on some of the tropes mentioned. A big part of their relationship being rocky and only slowly developing is Kate working Curran out of those kinds of views. Making him recognise he shouldn't manipulate her, shouldn't be too territorial, can protect herself and that she has a job and reputation too. And even with something like the cars, the way she gets a smile when she knows she shouldn't is probably a bit of tongue in cheek go at the trope. But then Kate shows the tape to Curran and they talk about it, and why it wasn't cool.

By the way, with the car bit its not like Curran just lost his shit. He planned out how to hurt Saiman, went and did it, and then made it very clear it was a message. He may have been in a rage when he did it, but it was coldy planned revenge and a message wrapped into one. Don't mess with him (as Saiman had happened at the restaurant) and don't cross him. The fact he got to bash up a whole heap of things was just a bonus. He also had no intention for Kate to ever be aware that he'd done it.

I don't know how far you've read, and I don't want to spoil, but this is incorrect...

Agreed.

[ants]

I just had to have a go at answering these, like a quiz. See how many I could get after 7 years living in the UK.

I loved the Felix Castor books. Those were amazing. I recommend them to people who try to shove the Dresden Files down my throat :-p

Just to explain, these are what I had to query my UK friends for help with on Facebook while reading Rivers of London:

[ ] Tannoys --- No idea

[ ] Calor glass bottles --- Nope

[ ] Episode of time team --- Nope again

[ ] Fireman says he has two appliances --- Think I'd need the context

[ ] Lfb trimming --- Nope

[ ] Top it up --- Fill it up, finish it. Could be in the context of a drink or petrol.

[ ] On the pull --- On the prowl, looking for luuuvve

[ ] Ex-panda car? --- No idea

[ ] IRV --- No idea

[ ] Doing a ton down --- Doing 100 down (probably 100 KPH down the road)

[ ] Kippers --- A terrible thing to eat for breakfast (a type of fish)

[ ] Local Odeon --- Odeon is a move theatre group

[ ] Lig into the cinema --- Go into the cinema

[ ] Bakelite phone --- No idea

[ ] Blonde WPC --- A blonde female WPC (which I think is women police constable)

[ ] Sifu --- type of dress, think its African which would fit the character's background

[ ] One-piece bunny suit (like Halloween?) --- Think playboy bunny suits

[ ] Every Rupert in a wig --- I think these are barristers (remember, they wear those funny wigs)

[ ] Doing blues and twos --- No idea

[ ] BAFTAs --- British awards for films

[ ] Chelsea tractors --- SUVs bought by rich people who never plan to take them off-raod (or visit anything in the country beyond a country pub).

[ ] Argos --- Cheap shop, think Amazon but with stores

[ ] RP accent --- No idea

[ ] Stroppy --- Mix of angry and irritated

[ ] C-grade A levels --- A-Levels are the name of the scoring system for the last few years of high school.

[ ] Peckham --- A suburb

[ ] Trident --- The nuclear deterrent on the UK submarines. The missiles are the trident system.

[ ] Sweeney --- Criminal (kind of)

[ ] Paracetemol --- Um, in Panadol, it is the one of the main ingredients in most world-wise over the counter pain medications

[ ] Nick --- depending on context, either a name or to 'nick' someone (arrest them) or put them in the nick (prison)

[ ] Palladino --- Think its a place

[ ] Purley --- A place

[ ] Obbo --- No idea

It was... A tedious read, to say the least. I did end up putting the second book down and read Ready Player One (hated it) and am now on book 13 of Kitty Norville.

I did try Seanan McGuire a while ago and put it down. May try again in a while.

Thanks for the recs, though guys!!

I got 22 out of 33. Interesting, since I've read (and loved) those books, so either I got a lot more when in context or it shows I just don't give two stuffs about prose!

[Mars447]

Kate Daniels discussion

I have to point out that Saiman isn't just some random guy who has been sniffing around Kate but someone who's basically been constantly sexually harassing her for the past year. At least only reason why she hadn't done anything about it until then was not because she was a pushover but because she found him too useful to seriously injure. Plus, what Saiman did was very, very stupid, and this isn't the kind of setting that's particularly survivable for stupid people.

That said it would be nice if we spent less time with the Pack. The reason why is that they're basically superstrong, superfast, regenerating homicidal idiot teenagers to a man and woman, except perhaps Derek (hey, Kate was a good influence on him) and maybe Jim. I always thought Ghastak or Kate's Order colleagues could've used more attention.

Also, Lyanna, thanks for the Generation V recommendation. It took me a moment to parse the Goodreads summary but then I got the title, which is kind of perfect.

That said the covers really suck. Your main character is a milennial represented on the cover by a tough dude in his 30s? Way to go.

[Lyanna Stark]

Also, Lyanna, thanks for the Generation V recommendation. It took me a moment to parse the Goodreads summary but then I got the title, which is kind of perfect.

That said the covers really suck. Your main character is a milennial represented on the cover by a tough dude in his 30s? Way to go.

I'm glad you liked them, but I can't take the credit! :) It was, I think, peterbound and someone else too. Agreed on the covers, but then most UF covers are pretty lolz-worthy.

[ljkeane]

I got 22 out of 33. Interesting, since I've read (and loved) those books, so either I got a lot more when in context or it shows I just don't give two stuffs about prose!

Bakelite is an early type of plastic. I'm pretty sure it's not an exclusively British name for it either.

Sorry, that's been annoying me.

[polishgenius]

I think it's a loss to the world that more places don't refer to their police vehicles as panda cars. Especially so for places where the cars are still actually black and white.

[john]

"Lig it into the cinema" is surely used wrongly there. I thought it was about turning up at functions and snaffling (that one's for you Mandy) the free booze. Not for buying a concession ticket in the cinema, that's not ligging it.