Lord Godric Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Without the valonquar, what is the point of the prophecy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashtibram Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 They're becoming tangential (geographically removed even) to the plot, which, again, revolves around Tyrion, Dany, and Jon.Dany, Jon, and Tyrion will be flying dragons at the end.It's tv.I'm confused as to why you sound so certain about this. While it seems likely that the plot might become more tightly focused around the major characters, I certainly don't see a reason to think that vital figures like Arya, Sansa or Bran will by cut from the plot entirely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Can someone just give me as detailed a summary as they can about the Maggy the frog scene. I'm particularly interested in what Maggy looks like. Just curious lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbob Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Some of you guys act like you know how the books are going to end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 @jbob: that's also been bothering me. Book purists have the attitude of 'well, if we have figured stuff out from later books that means it will be important'. No it doesn't, it just means these elements have been likely figured out but their relevance is still up in the air. Does anyone think that Jon would care in any way, shape or form that R+L=J? He's said the NW is his family on multiple occasions and acts like he sincerely believes it. It may tell us and him where he comes from but it has literally no influence on anything, except how Dany might feel about him but there is no guarantee they'll even see each other in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 @jbob: that's also been bothering me. Book purists have the attitude of 'well, if we have figured stuff out from later books that means it will be important'. No it doesn't, it just means these elements have been likely figured out but their relevance is still up in the air. Does anyone think that Jon would care in any way, shape or form that R+L=J? He's said the NW is his family on multiple occasions and acts like he sincerely believes it. It may tell us and him where he comes from but it has literally no influence on anything, except how Dany might feel about him but there is no guarantee they'll even see each other in the story. Yes, most readers expect Jon to care, because finding out that 1) Ned isn't his father, and 2) he's the son of Rhaegar Targaryen is quite obviously gonna be fucking huge. I... can't believe I need to explain that?? No wonder you love the show so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I think a rlj will be a big deal to us, because it's a huge mystery solved. But in the context of the story, it probably won't matter much. He may be a son of Prince Rhaegar, but he's still a bastard and he's still in the Nights Watch. Not really anything he can do to get more power or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 It is possible Jon's parentage is only really relevant to GRRMs original plot design, as featured in the leaked letter. It may have little to no bearing on how the current plot is developing and just be a hangover from prior plans. As a fan of show and books, I fail to see how Jon's parentage matters beyond giving his character personal closure. It's important to Jon, not Westeros, especially considerring that I don't think anyone will really give a toss who is high born and who is not when winter comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 So it's like 5 days to go right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebevan91 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 6 days 0 hours 27 minutes and 5 seconds as of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilan8888 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Without the valonquar, what is the point of the prophecy? The point here would be the part about Cersei's children dying. The implication was, I think, that they would die before her. Thus why she is so intensely protective of them, her involvement with Tommen and sending Jamie to Dorne. In the book she's not quite as eager to get Mycella back (she wants her back, but not to the point of sending Jamie), and she's quite derisive of Tommen. I think the show is trying to showcase what show Tyrion highlighted as Cersei's sole positive trait: She loves her children. It's doubtful book Cersei loves her children as much. Book Cersei is not a particularly sympathetic character without a lot of nuance. She's more of a textbook study of someone with Narcissitic Personality Disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The point here would be the part about Cersei's children dying. The implication was, I think, that they would die before her. Thus why she is so intensely protective of them, her involvement with Tommen and sending Jamie to Dorne. In the book she's not quite as eager to get Mycella back (she wants her back, but not to the point of sending Jamie), and she's quite derisive of Tommen. I think the show is trying to showcase what show Tyrion highlighted as Cersei's sole positive trait: She loves her children. It's doubtful book Cersei loves her children as much. Book Cersei is not a particularly sympathetic character without a lot of nuance. She's more of a textbook study of someone with Narcissitic Personality Disorder.Yes she loves her children, but removing the Valonquar removes motivation that Tyrion was threat to them and her. Just as removing Cersei killing a child removes a clear predisposition to a personality disorder. In truth they are removing what many fans thought should of never been, her prophecy which changes the characters motivation and thus the character.The real question is why leave the flashback in at all? She is worried about someone killing her children? She was worried about someone killing her children the moment she gave birth to Jaime' kids because they are not Roberts. You don't need anymore motivation or threat. If you are going to pick a flashback, it woulld probably be better to pick one that is relevant and has some meaning. Not a flashback that was by in large redundant in the books, and then make it more redundant. Unless there is another reason they are using it. You don't need a another reason for her to fear for her children, they are a lie established going back to thrones. You don't need a reason for her to hate Tyrion, her perfectly natural reason is she blames him for her mothers death, and you don't need to give her a personality disposition as killing people in this society is not uncommon and the stress of her own lies, and situation can easily account for her degeneration.So why did both D&D and Martin do this as the flashback is very redundant. I suspect it was to establish the prophet Maggy the Frog, in the same location Rhaegar was at, and to show she was an actual prophet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beric175 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's possible that the valonqar might get revealed in a later episode as the last part of that flahsback but even then it would put up a HUGE sign post saying 'IT'S JAIME OR TYRION Y'ALL'. That's not how this kind of show is structured: you don't give this kind of stuff away this early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsug Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah I think there might be like a part two of the flashback, perhaps right before the walk of shame. I don't think they'll do valonqar at all, but I think they'll show her drowning Melara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldda Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm FURIOUS over the cut of Taena Merryweather! Ha, just kidding, but those night time scenes with Cersei would have been gold. Honestly the omission of the valonquar doesn't bother me, mostly because there were scenes in previous seasons where Tyrion and Cersei actually seemed to get along. If they added the valonquar bit I think it would undermine those scenes, but that's just my opinion. What I'm most interested in this season is how the handle the north. The stuff in Winterfell was the most interesting to me. Will we see the hooded man? Will Sansa be it? Will Theon be freaked out by Bran's voice beneath the heart tree? And I definitely hope to see Davos get sent to find Rickon. I've been always been interested in Skagos. I'm thinking they substitute the Last Hearth and the Great Jon with White Harbor and the Manderlys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoolbook Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Yes she loves her children, but removing the Valonquar removes motivation that Tyrion was threat to them and her. Just as removing Cersei killing a child removes a clear predisposition to a personality disorder. In truth they are removing what many fans thought should of never been, her prophecy which changes the characters motivation and thus the character.The real question is why leave the flashback in at all? She is worried about someone killing her children? She was worried about someone killing her children the moment she gave birth to Jaime' kids because they are not Roberts. You don't need anymore motivation or threat. If you are going to pick a flashback, it woulld probably be better to pick one that is relevant and has some meaning. Not a flashback that was by in large redundant in the books, and then make it more redundant. Unless there is another reason they are using it. You don't need a another reason for her to fear for her children, they are a lie established going back to thrones. You don't need a reason for her to hate Tyrion, her perfectly natural reason is she blames him for her mothers death, and you don't need to give her a personality disposition as killing people in this society is not uncommon and the stress of her own lies, and situation can easily account for her degeneration.So why did both D&D and Martin do this as the flashback is very redundant. I suspect it was to establish the prophet Maggy the Frog, in the same location Rhaegar was at, and to show she was an actual prophet.The most important part of the Maggy prophecy was IMO the younger, more beautiful queen part. This caused Cersei to act very reckless to get rid of Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oathbreaker_89 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 has anyone read the 'Game of thrones season 5' wiki page?? in the settin location of smaller characters where it says 'Beyond The Wall' is says:Richard Brake as White Walkers master. duz anyone know wtf this means?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 has anyone read the 'Game of thrones season 5' wiki page?? in the settin location of smaller characters where it says 'Beyond The Wall' is says:Richard Brake as White Walkers master. duz anyone know wtf this means?? That Richard Brake is reprising the role of the Night's King that he played in ep. 404 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takyon Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The flashback also includes the prediction that Cersei will be usurped by a "younger and more beautiful" queen/king and that's the big motivator for a lot of Cersei's actions in AFFC.I suppose that is why they include the flashback: to rationalize Cersei's apprehension of Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 After attending the world premiere of Game of Thrones season 5 at the Tower of London, Linda and I have written up some brief impressions. We also created a video discussing one particular aspect of the first episode, “The Wars to Come”, which we thought was pretty noteworthy. You can find it below: Visit the Site! Cool review guys, I know its hard to watch your favorite books be changed for seemingly no reason (i feel the pain), but the show has brought some scenes to life in a cool way, and brought people like me to the books, so we can at lest be thankful for that :). One small note- when you guys said that the show hasnt done a good job of showing the plight of the small folks in Brienne's storyline, its true. But they added some stuff into Hound/Arya which kind of makes up for it, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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