Pillars of Eternity - Eat my Cipher!

[Relic]

Thanks for the info Mc. This random cypher is just wrecking Shit. I won't want to give her up. Wish there was a way to "unspec".

Minor gripe - outdoor maps are rather small thus far.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Enjoying the game, but it is insanely, punishingly hard in a way that BG never was, even in the early going when you didn't know what the hell was going on. I've amassed a party of 5 and some things got a bit easier (the fungoids, the bear etc) but then I got to the castle with all the shadows and phantoms and every fight just wipes out the party. Having to run out of the castle and all the way back to town to get camping supplies to fully heal is awkward busywork at best. I know they didn't want people spamming rest like they did in the BG days, but between fast travel and fast movement you're not that far from the nearest inn anyway, so they may as well have allowed it.

Great stuff though. Durance is a classic Chris Avellone character, cut from the same cloth as half the PS:T cast and Kreia from KotOR 2.

Shadows are really the worst. A couple of them are okay, but then the swarms of them... *shudder*

More Defiance Bay adventures

Trying to solve the Lighthouse mystery and I feel like I'm missing the trick because of a low Perception score. I have a 12 which is enough to see that the banshee's hands are covered with something dark (ink?) and it gives me the clue that something about that may be nearby, but I haven't found any damn item... or did I? Shit, now that I think about it, maybe I found a book somewhere in there.

Anyway, the brute force confrontation isn't going very well due to the aforementioned Shadow/Spectre combo.

[Jasta11]

Enjoying the game, but it is insanely, punishingly hard in a way that BG never was, even in the early going when you didn't know what the hell was going on. I've amassed a party of 5 and some things got a bit easier (the fungoids, the bear etc) but then I got to the castle with all the shadows and phantoms and every fight just wipes out the party. Having to run out of the castle and all the way back to town to get camping supplies to fully heal is awkward busywork at best. I know they didn't want people spamming rest like they did in the BG days, but between fast travel and fast movement you're not that far from the nearest inn anyway, so they may as well have allowed it.

Great stuff though. Durance is a classic Chris Avellone character, cut from the same cloth as half the PS:T cast and Kreia from KotOR 2.

For my part, it got easier after Caed Nua and Castle Readrick (sp?). I'm crusing around Defiance Bay and there were no challenging fights at all in there. Currently exploring the Endless Paths of Od Nua a bit before moving on to some more Defiance Bay quests. I've never really liked cities in IE games and this one is no different. Exploring dungeons, towns and the wilderness is so much more fun and fitting, I think.

And yes, Durance definitely has Chris's signature style; a slightly lunatic, usually rather old, character who camplains about and wants to radically change current society while waxing philosophical monologues in between short, abrupt phrases. Who am I, Ravel, Trias, Kreia, Durance or Ulysses? He's still probably the best writer in the whole business, but he definitely has his comfort zone.

Albeit what I like about Durance (and that ChrisA characters often lack) is that you can talk back to him. You get into a convo with him at some point after hitting level 6, and after he goes on a long tirade, you can bust out a line that leaves him completely at a loss for words. You just get treated to two speech boxes of narration roughly describing how the guy looks like he both respects you and wants to kill you right now, before he changes the subject. It's pretty glorious.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just started off and rolled an Anua (sp) Cipher. Not sure if that was a great choice racewise for that class. Really digging the worldbuilding. They really put a ton of effort into it. Some really nice graphics as well. That hanging tree in the front of the Gilded Vale was pretty jarring.

[Jasta11]

Ooof, the Endless Paths are no joke. Level 2 was only easily killed Xaurips, level 3 has freaking Ogres, whose 50+ damage clubs are way more accurate than they have any right to be. They also have druids, who use very powerful AoE spells. I managed to kill some, but it's mostly thanks to their piss poor Will save and my Cipher's Mental Binding spell which I increasingly find to be pretty OP. Even then the leader required a few retries. I wonder what they will throw at you at level 4 of 15, dragons?

It seems that the Endless Paths aren't really a dungeon you progress into across the game, but more of an endgame one unless you are very good.

[The Drunkard]

• Make a save before entering Raedric's Hold. Sometimes, and very inconsistently, the game will not load properly on (iirc) load or map transition. If you're worried about losing progress, hold off on that area until the patch.

I'm experiencing this. You go through a door, get the loading screen, and then you're left with a black screen and your cursor. I hope the patch drops soon.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Ooof, the Endless Paths are no joke. Level 2 was only easily killed Xaurips, level 3 has freaking Ogres, whose 50+ damage clubs are way more accurate than they have any right to be. They also have druids, who use very powerful AoE spells. I managed to kill some, but it's mostly thanks to their piss poor Will save and my Cipher's Mental Binding spell which I increasingly find to be pretty OP. Even then the leader required a few retries. I wonder what they will throw at you at level 4 of 15, dragons?

It seems that the Endless Paths aren't really a dungeon you progress into across the game, but more of an endgame one unless you are very good.

Hence why I decided to backtrack and not do the Endless Paths.

[Horza]

Yeah, this is a lot of fun. Thanks to everyone who was raving about the kickstarter, back in the day.

One quibble I have:

PoE does a great job of reinvigorating that Baldur's Gate feel, but having made it to Chapter 2 I am a little disappointed at the pacing. In BG1 chapter 1 you were on the run and had to work things out while dodging increasingly deadly efforts on your life, while BG2 chapter 1 is a fiendish puzzle. PoE, by comparison is a lot gentler, there are some challenging areas but you can take them at your leisure; I would have liked a bit more complications from sinister forces, or a more hostile Golden Vale reception.

[Fez]

It makes beelining for companions on subsequent areas more attractive though. I'll spoiler the locations I've found below for people.

• Aloth: Gilded Vale

Eder: Gilded Vale after you talk to the dwarf woman

Durance: Magran's Fork

Kana: Caed Nua

Sagani: Woodend

Grieving Mother: Dryford

Pallegina: Ondra's Gift, in Defiance Bay

Hiravias: No clue, haven't found him

Speaking of which, I've got six of the companions now myself, I'm not sure which to leave out (btw, do left out companions continue to get party XP or not?)

As a pally, I'm a tank, but I'm also the largest damage dealer so that gives me some versatility in what party set up I want.

Aloth sucked at first, but with at level 5 he finally has enough spell uses that I'm comfortable using a few now and then; also his base attack damage seems to have gone up. So I want to keep him.

Eder is a great tank, he never goes down and almost never even loses health, but he does almost no damage. He could maybe go, but it'd be risky.

Durance is mostly useless, except for those bosses and various random tough battles, where I desperately need his heals.

Kana is great. Lots of damage, useful chants, crazy powerful invocations for battles that go on a while.

Sagani I thought would be good, but hasn't done much damage at all. I don't know if her fox(?) has been better, I can't see his stats as far as I can tell.

Pellegina I just got recently, replacing Sagani with her. She seems to be somewhere between she does less damage than me but more than Eder, but less durable than either (though to be fair, I have pretty good enchanted equipment boosting me).

The way I see it, I need to keep Kana, Aloth, and Durance (maybe after I get the last two companions I can start changing things up more). So the question is, which out of Eder, Sagani, and Pellegina do I leave out? And I'm really not sure. I'm leaning towards it not being Eder though. He's such a rock, and he's got some of the best banter (which has really stepped up in volume since I reached Defiance Bay).

Yeah, this is a lot of fun. Thanks to everyone who was raving about the kickstarter, back in the day.

One quibble I have:

PoE does a great job of reinvigorating that Baldur's Gate feel, but having made it to Chapter 2 I am a little disappointed at the pacing. In BG1 chapter 1 you were on the run and had to work things out while dodging increasingly deadly efforts on your life, while BG2 chapter 1 is a fiendish puzzle. PoE, by comparison is a lot gentler, there are some challenging areas but you can take them at your leisure; I would have liked a bit more complications from sinister forces, or a more hostile Golden Vale reception.

The game does pick up in an urgency a little bit once you start to learn more about the bad guys, but I agree that the pace is still more leisurely. On the plus side, I don't feel as silly about getting involved in various subplots when I'm constantly on the run; but I agree that a little more urgency would be nice. This part of the world is in a really bad spot right now, but its long-running and slow-simmering it seems.

By the way, has anyone seen a map of the whole world? I'm having trouble getting a sense of where the game map is, in location to all the other countries and places mentioned in backstory and dialog.

[Horza]

The game does pick up in an urgency a little bit once you start to learn more about the bad guys, but I agree that the pace is still more leisurely. On the plus side, I don't feel as silly about getting involved in various subplots when I'm constantly on the run; but I agree that a little more urgency would be nice. This part of the world is in a really bad spot right now, but its long-running and slow-simmering it seems.

By the way, has anyone seen a map of the whole world? I'm having trouble getting a sense of where the game map is, in location to all the other countries and places mentioned in backstory and dialog.

Yeah, there is that whole "I'm on the run from a sinister conspiracy do you have any clu- what's that? Your dog's missing? I'm on it!" issue that bedevils this entire genre.

There's no map of the world, but according to the wiki all those places are really far away.

[Independent George]

Can anyone explain the 'minor adventure' mechanic at the stronghold? It says it will be completed on 'turn 6', whatever that means. It's been nearly a week since I sent one of my party off alone. I have a save from just before it, but I'm not sure what's going on.

[Jon AS]

This is fun, not too hard (the limit to two sets of camping supplies isn't that big of an issue so far, and I guess in a worst case scenario I'll have to do some backtracking), but with a few challenging fights sprinkled in. I went with the ranged Cipher (by now he has a blunderbuss which helps with building focus) and obviously gave everyone else a ranged weapon, too. Every encounter starts with a devastating volley, often taking one of the more dangerous enemies out immediately, then I switch my melee guys to their standard weapons and mostly focus on micromanaging the casters.

I've gotten my stronghold and am upgrading it, but haven't advanced the main quest any further, doing a bunch of sidequests instead.

One minor gripe so far: companions level up before you acquire them, so my Eder arrived with Weapon Focus: Ruffian. Given that I'd rather equip him with other items, I was a little irritated, but eh. I'll survive. It makes beelining for companions on subsequent areas more attractive though. I'll spoiler the locations I've found below for people.

• Aloth: Gilded Vale
• Eder: Gilded Vale after you talk to the dwarf woman
• Durance: Magran's Fork
• Kana: Caed Nua
• Sagani: Woodend
• Grieving Mother: Dryford
• Pallegina: Ondra's Gift, in Defiance Bay
• Hiravias: No clue, haven't found him

Hiravias is in Stormwall Gorge, near the path that leads down to the water

[MerenthaClone]

Speaking of which, I've got six of the companions now myself, I'm not sure which to leave out (btw, do left out companions continue to get party XP or not?)

As a pally, I'm a tank, but I'm also the largest damage dealer so that gives me some versatility in what party set up I want.

Aloth sucked at first, but with at level 5 he finally has enough spell uses that I'm comfortable using a few now and then; also his base attack damage seems to have gone up. So I want to keep him.

Eder is a great tank, he never goes down and almost never even loses health, but he does almost no damage. He could maybe go, but it'd be risky.

Durance is mostly useless, except for those bosses and various random tough battles, where I desperately need his heals.

Kana is great. Lots of damage, useful chants, crazy powerful invocations for battles that go on a while.

Sagani I thought would be good, but hasn't done much damage at all. I don't know if her fox(?) has been better, I can't see his stats as far as I can tell.

Pellegina I just got recently, replacing Sagani with her. She seems to be somewhere between she does less damage than me but more than Eder, but less durable than either (though to be fair, I have pretty good enchanted equipment boosting me).

The way I see it, I need to keep Kana, Aloth, and Durance (maybe after I get the last two companions I can start changing things up more). So the question is, which out of Eder, Sagani, and Pellegina do I leave out? And I'm really not sure. I'm leaning towards it not being Eder though. He's such a rock, and he's got some of the best banter (which has really stepped up in volume since I reached Defiance Bay).

The game does pick up in an urgency a little bit once you start to learn more about the bad guys, but I agree that the pace is still more leisurely. On the plus side, I don't feel as silly about getting involved in various subplots when I'm constantly on the run; but I agree that a little more urgency would be nice. This part of the world is in a really bad spot right now, but its long-running and slow-simmering it seems.

By the way, has anyone seen a map of the whole world? I'm having trouble getting a sense of where the game map is, in location to all the other countries and places mentioned in backstory and dialog.

Companions get some xp at the stronghold and can go on an adventure to make up the difference. This also gets you items and some rep, but makes the companion unavailable.

Related to that, "turns" in the stronghold advance when quests get completed or hit milestones though I don't know which ones specifically advance turns and which ones don't.

[MerenthaClone]

Speaking of which, I've got six of the companions now myself, I'm not sure which to leave out (btw, do left out companions continue to get party XP or not?)

As a pally, I'm a tank, but I'm also the largest damage dealer so that gives me some versatility in what party set up I want.

Aloth sucked at first, but with at level 5 he finally has enough spell uses that I'm comfortable using a few now and then; also his base attack damage seems to have gone up. So I want to keep him.

Eder is a great tank, he never goes down and almost never even loses health, but he does almost no damage. He could maybe go, but it'd be risky.

Durance is mostly useless, except for those bosses and various random tough battles, where I desperately need his heals.

Kana is great. Lots of damage, useful chants, crazy powerful invocations for battles that go on a while.

Sagani I thought would be good, but hasn't done much damage at all. I don't know if her fox(?) has been better, I can't see his stats as far as I can tell.

Pellegina I just got recently, replacing Sagani with her. She seems to be somewhere between she does less damage than me but more than Eder, but less durable than either (though to be fair, I have pretty good enchanted equipment boosting me).

The way I see it, I need to keep Kana, Aloth, and Durance (maybe after I get the last two companions I can start changing things up more). So the question is, which out of Eder, Sagani, and Pellegina do I leave out? And I'm really not sure. I'm leaning towards it not being Eder though. He's such a rock, and he's got some of the best banter (which has really stepped up in volume since I reached Defiance Bay).

The game does pick up in an urgency a little bit once you start to learn more about the bad guys, but I agree that the pace is still more leisurely. On the plus side, I don't feel as silly about getting involved in various subplots when I'm constantly on the run; but I agree that a little more urgency would be nice. This part of the world is in a really bad spot right now, but its long-running and slow-simmering it seems.

By the way, has anyone seen a map of the whole world? I'm having trouble getting a sense of where the game map is, in location to all the other countries and places mentioned in backstory and dialog.

Companions get some xp at the stronghold and can go on an adventure to make up the difference. This also gets you items and some rep, but makes the companion unavailable.

Related to that, "turns" in the stronghold advance when quests get completed or hit milestones though I don't know which ones specifically advance turns and which ones don't.

[Maia]

So, my companion chanter never yet had an invocation castable as far as I could see. He does the chants and those bonuses are clearly helpful, but the invocation tab remains greyed out. I use him to shoot and stab things, which is far from ideal. What am I doing wrong? Does the brigandine he comes wearing slow his actions too much? Should I stick him into a robe or something? I tried not having him fight, but it didn't seem to help...

Also, I love the stories behind many of the quests/tasks. The bear, the temple, etc.

The maps are way too dark, though, so it is often difficult to see if I have explored every corner as thoroughly as I wanted to. I know that they reflect the actual terrain that my team is crossing, sometimes in darkness or at night, but IMHO something should have been done to make them more legible.

Otherwise, it is just getting better and better so far. I really love how they have gone about making the PC "special" in this game and how it is integrated into the storytelling and gameplay. Also

Durance

is one massively creepy guy and I wonder how he'd interact with the cipher companion. In fact, there should have been some fireworks with people that I already have. Or do the companions not interact much with each other?

I am also agonizing over who should have Mechanics once I find another companion and have to bench my Rogue merc. As a result, I am paralized and am not distributing them at all, heh.

[Relic]

I don't think unspent skill points carry over level to level so "saving" them is not a good idea...

[Werthead]

Trying to take the stronghold at the moment, although I think I got sucked into the first level of the Endless Paths instead. Not too bad going at the moment but will withdraw when it gets too tough.

I'm pretty sure the Endless Paths is something you're supposed to dip in and out of throughout the game, and when you finish it ties into (speculation):

Your eventual fate as a Watcher.

So it's optional, but adds a bit to the main narrative.

How is everyone finding the level progression? I was surprised when one reviewer said that on completing the game after 55-odd hours he was only Level 11. After Wasteland 2 (which I finished after 54 hours and 36 levels) that seems quite stingy, and doesn't give you too many upgrade options.

[Jon AS]

There sure are a lot of class/skill/attribute checks in this game. I'm not certain that adds that much replay value, but it is neat to see my choices when building my character come up every so often.

So, my companion chanter never yet had an invocation castable as far as I could see. He does the chants and those bonuses are clearly helpful, but the invocation tab remains greyed out.

After he's gone through his chants a few times he should get the option to use an invocation. Could just be that you're finishing fights too quickly.

Otherwise, it is just getting better and better so far. I really love how they have gone about making the PC "special" in this game and how it is integrated into the storytelling and gameplay. Also

Durance

is one massively creepy guy and I wonder how he'd interact with the cipher companion. In fact, there should have been some fireworks with people that I already have. Or do the companions not interact much with each other?

My impression is that npcs will only chat about stuff once you've talked to them directly about it. E.g. I asked Kana about his background and soon Aloth talked to him about his family. So far the conversations haven't been particularly special, though.

Trying to take the stronghold at the moment, although I think I got sucked into the first level of the Endless Paths instead. Not too bad going at the moment but will withdraw when it gets too tough.

Yeah, that happened to me, too, walked straight past the door at the start of the level.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Probably stupid question: Where is the chest and what counts as the Great Hall in your stronghold? Whenever someone comes back from a mission it tells me there's a reward in the chest, and I swear I've looked high and low in the base and there's nothing there.

[Fez]

I don't think unspent skill points carry over level to level so "saving" them is not a good idea...

The points that you can put into stealth, lore, etc. do carryover (and eventually you need to carryover since it costs more than 6 points to level stuff). I don't know if the talent or class points carry over, I haven't tried that.

Trying to take the stronghold at the moment, although I think I got sucked into the first level of the Endless Paths instead. Not too bad going at the moment but will withdraw when it gets too tough.

I'm pretty sure the Endless Paths is something you're supposed to dip in and out of throughout the game, and when you finish it ties into (speculation):

Your eventual fate as a Watcher.

So it's optional, but adds a bit to the main narrative.

How is everyone finding the level progression? I was surprised when one reviewer said that on completing the game after 55-odd hours he was only Level 11. After Wasteland 2 (which I finished after 54 hours and 36 levels) that seems quite stingy, and doesn't give you too many upgrade options.

You might have, its easy to do. But the entrance to the second level is blocked by a magic barrier that doesn't unlock until after you control the stronghold, so you can't get too far in it. When I went back I got to the end of the third level before running into a boss fight I couldn't beat. I might've been able to if I tried again, but it was sufficiently hard that I took it as a sign to leave for a while and try later.

I'm level 6 after 17 hours in. Level 11 at the end seems like it would be low though, unless the exp gap between levels becomes exponential (it hasn't really yet). I wonder if that reviewer skipped a lot of side quests. I did read reviewers saying they finished at level 13, and that seems like the pace I'm on.

There sure are a lot of class/skill/attribute checks in this game. I'm not certain that adds that much replay value, but it is neat to see my choices when building my character come up every so often.

After he's gone through his chants a few times he should get the option to use an invocation. Could just be that you're finishing fights too quickly.

My impression is that npcs will only chat about stuff once you've talked to them directly about it. E.g. I asked Kana about his background and soon Aloth talked to him about his family. So far the conversations haven't been particularly special, though.

Yeah, that happened to me, too, walked straight past the door at the start of the level.

Intellect and Perception checks occur all the time, but seem to mostly lead to additional dialog that doesn't change end results (there have been a couple Intellect checks that let me avoid fights though). Might checks seem rare, but when I've gotten them and been able to meet them they often make bigger changes. Resolve checks happen all the time and the higher level ones have let me to do all sorts of things like avoiding fights, resolving quests in alternate ways, etc. It may be the weakest combat stat but its incredibly useful outside combat. I haven't seen dexterity or endurance checks.

I've seen some class and race checks, but almost none for mine (Orlan comes up a ton though). There were a few Paladin checks, but for a different order than mine.

The skill checks I think mostly just add extra dialog, though athletics is useful in the 'adventure book' sections at times.

Probably stupid question: Where is the chest and what counts as the Great Hall in your stronghold? Whenever someone comes back from a mission it tells me there's a reward in the chest, and I swear I've looked high and low in the base and there's nothing there.

The great hall is the entire map that the steward is in. The chest is in a small room off to the right, behind the general store guy.