LmL Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Hey Sun, can I ask you what's up with your avatar pic? It's incredibly awesome, and I want to understand it. Oddly, an egg with an arrow through it is a really good metaphor for a comet hitting a moon... just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desire Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Even as far back as Martin's uncomfortable comments about Talisa there's been evidence that his view of the show is not as rosy as it once was. And I seem to recall some fairly snide comments about the Martells as well on his not a blog. Plus the whole "Oh yeah I'm totally putting in an awesome twist that the show can't possibly do Mwuhaha!" is about as close as Martin can get to openly expressing dislike for the show without actually doing it. That's a clear "take that" against the show. So what if he doesn't like some of the changes on the show. What's your point? Is it odd that an artist would not be excited about someone interpreting their art differently than they did? Is is hard to imagine an author not extremely excited about an adaptation that decides not to include things that the author thinks is important? It's really not much of a stretch so I don't understand what you want to say. Unless you want to say the author thinks the show isn't good but even that is one man's opinion. I'd say the minute Martin understood that D&D were not going to show everything he'd written and be more focused on the main story while cutting many of the sub plots of the series, he wasn't thrilled. Is that surprising? And as a result of their more streamlined focus, they will finish first which is no doubt heart breaking to him. So he's trying to at least get out book 6 and has foregone writing for season 5 and 6. It's not as much a commentary of not wanting to be a part of the show as it is trying to get his version out first. Quite logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 So what if he doesn't like some of the changes on the show. What's your point? Is it odd that an artist would not be excited about someone interpreting their art differently than they did? Is is hard to imagine an author not extremely excited about an adaptation that decides not to include things that the author thinks is important? It's really not much of a stretch so I don't understand what you want to say. Unless you want to say the author thinks the show isn't good but even that is one man's opinion. I'd say the minute Martin understood that D&D were not going to show everything he'd written and be more focused on the main story while cutting many of the sub plots of the series, he wasn't thrilled. Is that surprising? And as a result of their more streamlined focus, they will finish first which is no doubt heart breaking to him. So he's trying to at least get out book 6 and has foregone writing for season 5 and 6. It's not as much a commentary of not wanting to be a part of the show as it is trying to get his version out first. Quite logical. My point is that...maybe he doesn't like were the show is going. Nothing more, nothing less than that. Some people are trying to argue that there is no evidence of any dissatisfaction, I'm simply disputing that. Now if Martin does dislike the show that does provide some validation to the complaints about the show, beyond personal tastes. A lot of the complaints are about things which we perceive D+D to have misinterpreted. If Martin agrees that they've interpreted things incorrectly, that becomes an indisputable criticism against the show (again, personal taste aside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Now if Martin does dislike the show that does provide some validation to the complaints about the show, beyond personal tastes. A lot of the complaints are about things which we perceive D+D to have misinterpreted. If Martin agrees that they've interpreted things incorrectly, that becomes an indisputable criticism against the show (again, personal taste aside). Actually, unless Martin gets very specific about things he does and does not like about the show, the mere belief that he's not happy with it does not provide validation of the complaints many have made about the show. What's more, it is extremely unlikely that Martin would say D&D have misinterpreted things, just as he won't come on this forum and call out anyone who's "got it all wrong" either. Interpretation is just that and as long as they're grounded in sound analysis of the literary and story elements the author's used, then it will always be personal. All Martin could do is say "when I wrote this I was thinking this" but even that would only go so far since author's intent and reader interpretation do not always mesh. Throw in the fact that adaptation into another medium requires yet another level of interpretation, and it becomes even murkier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Actually, unless Martin gets very specific about things he does and does not like about the show, the mere belief that he's not happy with it does not provide validation of the complaints many have made about the show. What's more, it is extremely unlikely that Martin would say D&D have misinterpreted things, just as he won't come on this forum and call out anyone who's "got it all wrong" either. Interpretation is just that and as long as they're grounded in sound analysis of the literary and story elements the author's used, then it will always be personal. All Martin could do is say "when I wrote this I was thinking this" but even that would only go so far since author's intent and reader interpretation do not always mesh. Throw in the fact that adaptation into another medium requires yet another level of interpretation, and it becomes even murkier. I agree that he's very unlikely to come out and say anything, let alone be specific. At most he'll complain years after the show is over. That said, I don't believe in Death of the Author. At least not when it comes to talking about actual events and character's feelings and motivations. One could argue that if the reader has a different interpretation of that to the author, then that's a failure on the part of the author, but if a reader's interpretation differs from both the author's and most other reader's, then likely it's a failure on their part. And I think D+D gets a lot wrong in that regard. A recent example, from one of the Inside the Episodes is Weiss talking about Needle. He claims that Arya cannot bring herself to get rid of Needle because she sees it as a symbol of revenge. This is just factually wrong, because Martin explicitly tells us that Needle means family to Arya and doesn't mention revenge. Some interpretations are just wrong. So I won't lie. It would be extremely gratifying, even if it is years after the show is over, to hear Martin say "D+D had no idea what they were doing with my characters and themes." Not that it will ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This line of argument presupposes that, not only is Martin keeping quiet about disliking the show, he is being disingenuous or outright lying every time he praises it, and is also not telling the truth when giving his reasoning for not writing scripts for the fifth and sixth seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Nothing anyone has provided is "evidence". Sorry, but it's not.GRRM being unhappy that the show will spoil his books is not the same as him being unhappy because he thinks the show has ruined his story.In any case, this is is useless argument to make on this site because everyone here sees what they want to see and not what actually is. So, whatever .Including yourself. Your opinion does not supersede everyone else's. You are just as fallible as the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This line of argument presupposes that, not only is Martin keeping quiet about disliking the show, he is being disingenuous or outright lying every time he praises it, and is also not telling the truth when giving his reasoning for not writing scripts for the fifth and sixth seasons. I think most of us would argue that GRRM is being completely professional. I'm sure he understands why the situation is the way that it is, but that doesn't mean he's completely fine with it... People just aren't that simple. He could be completely sympathetic to the fact that they have to spoil the ending and still resent them and the situation. That's life. As GRRM himself would say, it's all about the human heart in conflict with itself. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm thinking I wont watch season 6 prior to reading the completed WOW.I just don't want to see the endgame through the show lens.Whether I also delay watching the season 6 till after a "Spring" book i'm not sure yet.But at this point I think I don't want to watch beyond completing show S5, i'm just uncomfortable with the idea of it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think most of us would argue that GRRM is being completely professional. I'm sure he understands why the situation is the way that it is, but that doesn't mean he's completely fine with it... People just aren't that simple. He could be completely sympathetic to the fact that they have to spoil the ending and still resent them and the situation. That's life. As GRRM himself would say, it's all about the human heart in conflict with itself. :) There is quite a bit of difference between Martin feeling disappointed that the ending to his story is going to be spoiled and Martin actively disliking the show. One does not necessarily imply the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This line of argument presupposes that, not only is Martin keeping quiet about disliking the show, he is being disingenuous or outright lying every time he praises it, and is also not telling the truth when giving his reasoning for not writing scripts for the fifth and sixth seasons. When was the last time GRRM actually praised the show? That's not a rhetorical question. And besides, it's not like the show is completely without merit, the cast and production values are still great. Likewise I have no doubt that wanting to get on with TWOW was the primary reason for not writing a script for S5 (and S6). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 There is quite a bit of difference between Martin feeling disappointed that the ending to his story is going to be spoiled and Martin actively disliking the show. One does not necessarily imply the other. I'm saying that GRRM could feel all sorts of things about the show. But his distance from it this season - especially compared to how vocal he was about it last season - implies some sort of tension. And just as an aside - I don't really see any reason for him to actually like the show. There's certainly no evidence that he feels anything positive about the show this season. So I'm gonna stick with my answer: his feelings towards the show are complicated. It only takes the smallest amount of empathy to understand how GRRM probably feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 [mod] This thread has outlived its usefulness. Closing it now. Thank you. [mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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