[SPOILERS] Black Sails - Season 4 on the Horizon.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

So have now finished season 2, again you were right and it's s step up in quality. 

- The finale was excellent, very action packed and well direction. Kept me on the edge of my seat and balanced out the plots well. It's great seeing Flint embrace his dark side, easily the best element.

- I enjoyed that I didn't really know where this season was going half the time, it was nicely unpredictable with lots of twists and turns. However there were possibly too many, so the plot became too convoluted for its own sake.

They often rely on creating artificial roadblocks to the story to pad it out and not make it as simple. Can be a little frustrating.

- I enjoyed that they have managed to add depth to the characters I felt were the weakeness of the show. Vane, Guthrie, Rackham and his girlfriends. I still think they are unfortunately cast as they take me out of the realism of the show. Why does Vane do that stupid batman voice. Why does Rackham have the bloody facial hair? How did Guthrie keep her hair looking so good? 

But they almost managed to make me care about them.

- Silver is becoming an interesting character instead of a cheeky heartthrob. I'm hoping his leg problem will turn him in the heartless villain of the Treasure Island books. So far I have a hard time imagining it's the same character.

Overall it's a lot of fun, still a bit cheesy and over the top, and I want to see my ship action, but otherwise will be jumping straight into the 3rd season 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Oh wow! Season 3! Haircuts ahoy!

[sweetsunray]

Last week bought the DVDs of the first two seasons in order to re-watch it all...And the re-watch makes for very very interesting watch of the later seasons.

When I first watched S1, especially the first 3-4 episodes it felt slow and clunky and the usual sexposition of boobs, fucking and monstrous killing (when Flint kills his rival Silverstone). Anne Bonny looks like a walking mute cliche, with her hat etc. John Silver is slick as an eel and unlikable. Eleanor seems over-acted and Max's decisions are just "no, it's nobody's fault but your own!" Vane's a woman beater, lying around in a tent with whores on his arms. Mr Guthrie is this sour-faced antagonist. And Mrs Barlow and her interactions with the pastor seem out of place. And with Flint being this bloodied savage beating his rival's head in you seemingly start out watching a show full of walking clichés, some hunt for a treasure with no character to root for in getting it. But then they use Billy and Gates to drive the mystery, and Rackham as this stumbling guy with 2 left hands who loses his pearls. But S2 just knocks everything out of the ballpark.

Rewatching S1 after seeing S2 makes for a completely other watch. S2 humanizes almost all of the characters - Bonny, Rackham, Eleanor, Vane, Flint, Barlow. They strip Bonny from her hat, put her in a dress and you suddenly wish for her to have her hat and pants back. We still get to see sexual acts but now it's desire and love. And by the end you're basically rooting for everyone, except Max. Anyhow, you have a far bigger chunk of background on all these characters, and so on a re-watch you don't feel anymore as if you dropped into a story with no one to root for. Myranda's conversation with the pastor and Flint's response to Eleanor trying to drive a wedge between the two, but incapable of doing it, makes a lot of sense suddenly.

And now there's S3. I think the epi 7 convo between Eleanor and Max is pivotal in Eleanor's characterization for all of S3. I read how many think she appears to be just filler or useless in the earlier part of the season, except for helping Woodes out by pointing out Hornigold to deliver the beach speech, and putting Vane's name on the non-pardonable list. Personally I don't see Eleanor as the villain, but doing the inevitable both by bedding Woodes as well as having Vane's name there. For the first time Eleanor is not in that damned chair since the start of the season. Max's speech about the rumors of Woodes' closeness to her is linked to her telling how getting to sit in that chair made her make promises and alliances, but to keep it she had to break those promises. Then Max points out that Woodes now has a governor's chair and ultimately will have to break promises and alliances in order to keep it. That's where the rumors come in. Max is warning Eleanor that she might end up at the short end of the stick if the rumors compromize Woodes and he has to betray Eleanor in order to keep his governor's chair, the same way Max has to betray Rackham and ultimately Anne to keep her chair. Max is hinting to Eleanor what she must do in order to avoid being cast aside by Woodes when the crucial moment comes for it. Well, and if there are rumors anyway, you might as well do it and enjoy the fruits of it. Eleanor for me thus is not trying to get the governor's seat, but trying to create a bond that does in fact compromizes Woodes so that he cannot set her aside.

Meanwhile there was no realistic way the dynamics between Eleanor-Vane could be resolved in any way without one of them dying. Their relation was volatile already at the start of S1. It's a toxic bond of pull and rejection, and every time the betrayal of one to the other goes farther and farther until it ends with Vane murdering her father. There was no resolution possible after that. It does not even matter that her father was a shitty father who sold his daughter out for his own life in the end. Heck, Vane's reveal in the cell only makes it worse. He destroys the last bit of her father's memory in her with that. It does not matter whether it was the truth. It was pointless destruction.

Now, I'll go back to the sexual depiction of the relationship with Eleanor-Vane in S1. It's hot sex, but also very mechanical, and with clothes on (well half clothed). Only Vane shows actual tenderness after the act. What we don't see from her is love for the man. She desires him, but she also despises the monstrosity in him. It is only when he acts reasonable and goes out of his way for her to actually do something for her and her home that she returns to him. But then in S2 she sees the mercenary person in him when he refuses to see reason over Ashe's daughter and does the most humane thing - get the girl out. It's a line she's unwilling to cross. In hindsight, Flint's plan and Myranda's hope of what delivering Ashe's daughter back would accomplish was pure fantasy. It was never realistic at all.

And then comes along Woodes, who basically is a younger James McGraw, taking up the legacy of Hamilton. She's in the weakest position ever, but he respects her. Just like Flint recognized she's crucial to saving Nassau, Woodes ends up doing the same. Flint's the father figure she desired in S1, and Woodes is the man who tries to make the most reasonable choice for all and Nassau, and he becomes this paragon of virtue in her eyes, something she wanted since she was a little girl and most other men failed to do so. Of course, she does compromize Woodes, by the simple fact that he's a married man (actually historically Woodes and Sarah were separated since 1712, and it was Sarah who had run up his debts during his sailing the world years. Woodes lived in London. Sarah lived with his parents in Brighton).  Anyhow, the bedding scene with Eleanor in S3 is completely different from before. It's the first time we see her totally naked, as is the lover with her completely naked (Woodes). We don't see the sex at all, but the pillow talk afterwards, in a proper bed in a proper room. 

And then there's Vane's execution. Eleanor baiscally decides to take the gauntlet of being the villain. She knew Vane needed to end, but Woodes doing it would make him the villain. But she's the hated one and acts like the decoy for it. Yes, she will be seen as the witch who manipulates Woodes, just like Flint's crew thought of Myranda as the witch who had power over Flint.

Personally, I think Woodes and Flint will be at odds at the start of S4 and a start of a rebellion. The gold for Havana will be intercepted pirates. Leftover ships on Woodes' side will defect back to piracy. But then Spain goes out to attack Nassau (and Spain did intend to attack Nassau under Woodes' first rule), but historically that attack was averted, except for slaves being taken from the island. And in that sense I think Flint and Woodes will end up as a temporary team. By then Spain got into war with France and never threatened Nassau ever again. Nor did they ever recover the lost $87000 of silver and gold of the treasure wreck at Florida's coast in 1715 that got plundered by pirates (Vane, Hornigold, ...)

ETA: And I think Eleanor herself will be one of the longest survivors in the series, because a lot of what she does or happens to her is a mirror to Nassau itself: abandoned by her corrupt father (England), prospering commercially because of piracy and a toxic love-hate relationship with it, which is just as well a legacy of the father since England/Mr Gutrhie used privateers for their own military ad political ends until in peace times those same men were branded pirates, to eventually being taken and brought back into the fold of England and loving the governor Woodes who made Nassau prosperous and legitimate again, who ended personally ruined because of the lengths he went to turn it and defend it (debtor's prison) and eventually does die there during his second term. Embodiments of states, lands and cities are usually women.

[Jace, Extat]

On 5/16/2016 at 11:52 AM, sweetsunray said:

Last week bought the DVDs of the first two seasons in order to re-watch it all...And the re-watch makes for very very interesting watch of the later seasons.

When I first watched S1, especially the first 3-4 episodes it felt slow and clunky and the usual sexposition of boobs, fucking and monstrous killing (when Flint kills his rival Silverstone). Anne Bonny looks like a walking mute cliche, with her hat etc. John Silver is slick as an eel and unlikable. Eleanor seems over-acted and Max's decisions are just "no, it's nobody's fault but your own!" Vane's a woman beater, lying around in a tent with whores on his arms. Mr Guthrie is this sour-faced antagonist. And Mrs Barlow and her interactions with the pastor seem out of place. And with Flint being this bloodied savage beating his rival's head in you seemingly start out watching a show full of walking clichés, some hunt for a treasure with no character to root for in getting it. But then they use Billy and Gates to drive the mystery, and Rackham as this stumbling guy with 2 left hands who loses his pearls. But S2 just knocks everything out of the ballpark.

Rewatching S1 after seeing S2 makes for a completely other watch. S2 humanizes almost all of the characters - Bonny, Rackham, Eleanor, Vane, Flint, Barlow. They strip Bonny from her hat, put her in a dress and you suddenly wish for her to have her hat and pants back. We still get to see sexual acts but now it's desire and love. And by the end you're basically rooting for everyone, except Max. Anyhow, you have a far bigger chunk of background on all these characters, and so on a re-watch you don't feel anymore as if you dropped into a story with no one to root for. Myranda's conversation with the pastor and Flint's response to Eleanor trying to drive a wedge between the two, but incapable of doing it, makes a lot of sense suddenly.

And now there's S3. I think the epi 7 convo between Eleanor and Max is pivotal in Eleanor's characterization for all of S3. I read how many think she appears to be just filler or useless in the earlier part of the season, except for helping Woodes out by pointing out Hornigold to deliver the beach speech, and putting Vane's name on the non-pardonable list. Personally I don't see Eleanor as the villain, but doing the inevitable both by bedding Woodes as well as having Vane's name there. For the first time Eleanor is not in that damned chair since the start of the season. Max's speech about the rumors of Woodes' closeness to her is linked to her telling how getting to sit in that chair made her make promises and alliances, but to keep it she had to break those promises. Then Max points out that Woodes now has a governor's chair and ultimately will have to break promises and alliances in order to keep it. That's where the rumors come in. Max is warning Eleanor that she might end up at the short end of the stick if the rumors compromize Woodes and he has to betray Eleanor in order to keep his governor's chair, the same way Max has to betray Rackham and ultimately Anne to keep her chair. Max is hinting to Eleanor what she must do in order to avoid being cast aside by Woodes when the crucial moment comes for it. Well, and if there are rumors anyway, you might as well do it and enjoy the fruits of it. Eleanor for me thus is not trying to get the governor's seat, but trying to create a bond that does in fact compromizes Woodes so that he cannot set her aside.

Meanwhile there was no realistic way the dynamics between Eleanor-Vane could be resolved in any way without one of them dying. Their relation was volatile already at the start of S1. It's a toxic bond of pull and rejection, and every time the betrayal of one to the other goes farther and farther until it ends with Vane murdering her father. There was no resolution possible after that. It does not even matter that her father was a shitty father who sold his daughter out for his own life in the end. Heck, Vane's reveal in the cell only makes it worse. He destroys the last bit of her father's memory in her with that. It does not matter whether it was the truth. It was pointless destruction.

Now, I'll go back to the sexual depiction of the relationship with Eleanor-Vane in S1. It's hot sex, but also very mechanical, and with clothes on (well half clothed). Only Vane shows actual tenderness after the act. What we don't see from her is love for the man. She desires him, but she also despises the monstrosity in him. It is only when he acts reasonable and goes out of his way for her to actually do something for her and her home that she returns to him. But then in S2 she sees the mercenary person in him when he refuses to see reason over Ashe's daughter and does the most humane thing - get the girl out. It's a line she's unwilling to cross. In hindsight, Flint's plan and Myranda's hope of what delivering Ashe's daughter back would accomplish was pure fantasy. It was never realistic at all.

And then comes along Woodes, who basically is a younger James McGraw, taking up the legacy of Hamilton. She's in the weakest position ever, but he respects her. Just like Flint recognized she's crucial to saving Nassau, Woodes ends up doing the same. Flint's the father figure she desired in S1, and Woodes is the man who tries to make the most reasonable choice for all and Nassau, and he becomes this paragon of virtue in her eyes, something she wanted since she was a little girl and most other men failed to do so. Of course, she does compromize Woodes, by the simple fact that he's a married man (actually historically Woodes and Sarah were separated since 1712, and it was Sarah who had run up his debts during his sailing the world years. Woodes lived in London. Sarah lived with his parents in Brighton).  Anyhow, the bedding scene with Eleanor in S3 is completely different from before. It's the first time we see her totally naked, as is the lover with her completely naked (Woodes). We don't see the sex at all, but the pillow talk afterwards, in a proper bed in a proper room. 

And then there's Vane's execution. Eleanor baiscally decides to take the gauntlet of being the villain. She knew Vane needed to end, but Woodes doing it would make him the villain. But she's the hated one and acts like the decoy for it. Yes, she will be seen as the witch who manipulates Woodes, just like Flint's crew thought of Myranda as the witch who had power over Flint.

Personally, I think Woodes and Flint will be at odds at the start of S4 and a start of a rebellion. The gold for Havana will be intercepted pirates. Leftover ships on Woodes' side will defect back to piracy. But then Spain goes out to attack Nassau (and Spain did intend to attack Nassau under Woodes' first rule), but historically that attack was averted, except for slaves being taken from the island. And in that sense I think Flint and Woodes will end up as a temporary team. By then Spain got into war with France and never threatened Nassau ever again. Nor did they ever recover the lost $87000 of silver and gold of the treasure wreck at Florida's coast in 1715 that got plundered by pirates (Vane, Hornigold, ...)

ETA: And I think Eleanor herself will be one of the longest survivors in the series, because a lot of what she does or happens to her is a mirror to Nassau itself: abandoned by her corrupt father (England), prospering commercially because of piracy and a toxic love-hate relationship with it, which is just as well a legacy of the father since England/Mr Gutrhie used privateers for their own military ad political ends until in peace times those same men were branded pirates, to eventually being taken and brought back into the fold of England and loving the governor Woodes who made Nassau prosperous and legitimate again, who ended personally ruined because of the lengths he went to turn it and defend it (debtor's prison) and eventually does die there during his second term. Embodiments of states, lands and cities are usually women.

I thought it was really cool when they stole that one ship...

[Arkash]

Looking forward to your reaction to season 3, Channel4s JS !

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

On 5/23/2016 at 9:22 PM, Arkash said:

Looking forward to your reaction to season 3, Channel4s JS !

I'm glad because I've JUST finished it!!

So overall opinion is, I thought that the series has gotten better and better as its gone on. I'll admit now that because I've rushed through all 3 seasons they are becoming a bit of a blur in my mind so I might get mixed up as to what happened in each one. 

I thought actually it was a very well balanced season, with enough pirating to go along with the time spent in Nassau on more domestic matters. I liked that the story seemed to spread out and expand in scope without losing its sense of centre. 

- Loved the early segments of the crew adrift in the ocean with no food or water, it led to some really memorable character moments, and possibly the place at which Silver became more of a player. I especially loved the moment that Flint killed a crewmate for stealing, and seeing that effect on him, how he doesn't really want to be this villain but its a role he feels he has to take on for the greater good. At the same time the dream sequences were quite chilling and very well shot, something that many shows don't manage to achieve.

-What I'm really enjoying about the show is that it is concerned with the notion of telling stories, of building up myths and how stories can create a reality on their own. Its something they were playing with quite early with Flint, that the idea of him was what was truly powerful. It was also interesting they have brought Blackbeard into the show (although history suggests he should be there as well) as he was famous for creating an almost mythical idea of himself that lingers even today. 
The way the series ended on the creation of 'Long John Silver' was great in fact. That Flint and Silver will compete not on a physical level but as myths will hopefully be explored next season. 

- I'm still not entirely sold on the actor who plays Silver, but that has more to do with my engrained sense of who Silver is from my childhood reading Treasure Island. I still see LJS as a sneaky trampy character, charming in his own way but quite clearly not a man to be trusted, a bit like Fagin from Oliver Twist! The actor on the show has certainly improved, but still I see him as too much of a pretty boy, a little too well spoken. He was at his best when he was starving, that haunted look suited the character.

- I enjoyed Guthries story this season, although her romance was slightly forced and maybe was less than happy to have her back on the island, basically taking up the same role she had previously. I would like her to be moved on one way or another as I find her to be the least interesting character on the show. 

So yeah, great show. I mentioned in a GoT thread that I think in fact this show is a little too slow moving and adult to really grab a large mainstream audience, I think thats still true, even though its clearly quite a mainstream show. While I really enjoy it, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't quite ever get traction in the media. Its a shame that the first half of season 1 is so poor because its very hard to recommend it to anyone as I guess most people would give up too quickly on it. 

[Arkash]

And an Emmy nom for Black Sails... didnt think it would ever happen... just a technical one, it deserves a hell lot more, but we'll take what we get...

[kairparavel]

So season 4 will be the last. 

http://deadline.com/2016/07/starz-black-sails-to-end-season-4-treasure-island-prequel-1201789425/

[Corvinus85]

2 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

So season 4 will be the last. 

http://deadline.com/2016/07/starz-black-sails-to-end-season-4-treasure-island-prequel-1201789425/

Here's hoping that it goes out in style. This was always a show that couldn't last too long, and I'm sure its budget was getting to Starz after three glorious seasons. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

So season 4 will be the last. 

http://deadline.com/2016/07/starz-black-sails-to-end-season-4-treasure-island-prequel-1201789425/

 

[red snow]

shame but I guess they would have had to start spinning wheels unless they wanted to go beyond the age of pirates and Nassau being reclaimed.

They probably also need to free up money for some of their upcoming shows too. Fingers crossed for a grand finale.

[sweetsunray]

On 20-7-2016 at 9:58 PM, kairparavel said:

So season 4 will be the last. 

http://deadline.com/2016/07/starz-black-sails-to-end-season-4-treasure-island-prequel-1201789425/

I had hoped for five seasons. With S4 to complete the arc of S3, as S2 completed S1, and then a time jump perhaps where we see the arcs of Flint (since Flint only dies a few years before Treasure Island), Silver-Madi, Anne, Eleanor, and Woodes resolved. Imo Rackham, Teach and Max are goners in S4. The first two to match with history and Max to make room in the tavern for Silver and Madi. But maybe the S4 finale does a time jump and shows the fates of these character just prior to Treasure Island. 

[GallowKnight]

We have our first short teaser for Season 4.

[Corvinus85]

36 minutes ago, GallowKnight said:

We have our first short teaser for Season 4.

YES!!! I did not recognize the speaker. Anyone know?

[kairparavel]

Sad news.

 

[Corvinus85]

39 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

Sad news.

 

RIP. He was a great Dufresne in the first season.

[GallowKnight]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

Sad news.

 

Damn, that's a real shame. He was great in the first season.

RIP

[red snow]

9 hours ago, Corvinus said:

RIP. He was a great Dufresne in the first season.

The character was never the same after the actor left for health reasons. Being an actor on a Starz! show is a dangerous occupation (with Andy Whitfield on Spartacus) although I guess with the size of production teams on TV shows it's surprising it doesn't happen more often.

[Martini Sigil]

I hope this show ends better than Banshee, which I loved about as much heading into its last season...   All goods things must come to an end, and I appreciate that Starz chose to end this show in four seasons rather than give it the ole' Dexter treatment and drag it on well past its prime....  I imagine that Budget has something to do with this decision.... regardless, I look forward to what Starz come up with next...

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

I hope this show ends better than Banshee, which I loved about as much heading into its last season...   All goods things must come to an end, and I appreciate that Starz chose to end this show in four seasons rather than give it the ole' Dexter treatment and drag it on well past its prime....  I imagine that Budget has something to do with this decision.... regardless, I look forward to what Starz come up with next...

Me too. Starz! ended Spartacus well though. I just hope the creators knew season 4 was the final one when they were making it. I think that might be the case when they were given season 3 and 4 at once.