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[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 2


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I'm a definite Sansa fan, and find her relationship to Sandor to be interesting; but I have never 'shipped' them, at least not long-term or definitely. Sandor as we have not known him is not good marriage or romance material with anyone; he's extremely emotionally immature, has huge trust issues and a tendency to over-compensate with temper or violence, and he's also an alcoholic.

If Sandor were to change, calm down a bit, moderate the alcoholism and control his temper, he might be able to become a romantic partner to Sansa. But she probably won't be the innocent, helpless little bird he wanted to help and save (and also to rape, although this might have been a momentary impulse, considering he was dissuaded from the dreadful act fairly easily, and I don't think he's in the habit of raping women/girls); Sandor may not feel the same attraction to her or the urge to protect her. And Sansa might be looking for other qualities in a suitor by the time she encounters him again (and I think she will encounter him again). We don't know. It could also be that if Sandor can still be an effective fighter, Sansa may yet need him. But Sansa at 25, ten years in the future, could just as easily be romantically involved with or married to Tyrion (still), Harry, Sweetrobin, Petyr, or others, or not involved with anyone, or dead.

Right now, in light of this chapter, I'm wondering if Sweetrobin is not only going to beat the odds and live to grow up but eventually marry Sansa. That bit about her mentioning his hair (again) and then thinking that Sweetrobin's tentative future wife will admire his hair seems like overkill unless it is foreshadowing of some sort; unless there have been other ladies/girls of the Eyrie/Vale who have noticed the poor kid's pretty hair. And I remember Sansa's thoughts, during that ghastly wedding night with Tyrion, about Septa Mordane's telling her, in regards to wedding nights and naked bridegrooms, that every man has one attractive physical feature. But I'm certainly not betting on it, Sansa is still probably only 14 (and Robert Arryn is only what, 9 or 10?) and has a lot more growing up to do, and her situation, as well as that of the Vale and all of Westeros, too volatile at the moment to definitely forecast such predictions.

Great post, as always, Raksha!

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Am I the only one who thinks this is not the full chapter? Usually the chapters end on some kind of cliffhanger, major or minor. It seems to me that Who's going to wear my favor?!! is not the actual ending, but rather the tournament and the 'controversial' part have been omitted. (I don't want to get on the bad side of the King of the Board, but the explanation for why this chapter was considered controversial was, well, unconvincing.)

When George stops hinting at it I'll stop posting about it.

It ends in a similar manner to the chapter before her marriage to Tyrion.

And no, every chapter doesn't end on a cliffhanger. This was a flavour of Winds, to leave us wanting to read what happens at the Tourney.

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Considering he wrote the chapter back in 2010, I think it's fair to assume it's a final draft...

I believe on his NAB he said this was taken from his Wordstar (or whatever that thing is called). But, if it was supposed to be in ADWD but his editor cut it, surely his editor would have a copy already, fully edited? But yeah, I'd have thought something from 2010 would have been edited by now.

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I believe on his NAB he said this was taken from his Wordstar (or whatever that thing is called). But, if it was supposed to be in ADWD but his editor cut it, surely his editor would have a copy already, fully edited? But yeah, I'd have thought something from 2010 would have been edited by now.

He must be joking about Wordstar. No one has used Wordstar in 25 years. I know there are articles out there on how he uses it, but it would be far too much work to get the file formatted over for his editors. Or is he really printing out his manuscripts on a dot matrix printer and giving it to them? Hard to believe.

Wordperfect 5.1 is a different story.

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I am typing out loud here, but I found this interesting....




“And is Ser Harrold with them?”


Horrible Ser Harrold. “ He is.” Lord Belmore laughed. “I never thought Royce would let him come. Is he blind, or merely stupid?”



“He is honorable. Sometimes it amounts to the same thing. If he denied the lad the chance to prove himself, it could create a rift between them, so why not let him tilt? The boy is nowise skilled enough to win a place amongst the Winged Knights.”




This gave me a few things to chew on:



1) Harry is not considered a very skilled fighter.



2) Lord Belmore does not think it wise that Harry is competing in the tourney.



(This puzzled me- Is it because of Harry's lack of skill that Belmore does not think he should compete? Or, is it because Belmore was concerned that Harry might actually win a place amongst the Winged Knights and if so, why is that a problem? My first assumption when reading was that the Winged Knights was a Kingsguard "no land/no wife" sort of deal for 3 years (hence men with wives not invited) but on a second read I realised it was only the time commitment over 3 years. I would be most grateful if anyone can explain it so that my pea-sized brain understand.)



3) LF defends "Royce's decision" to allow Harry to compete. Given that we are later informed....





“Lord Nestor has an open hand,” Alayne heard Ser Edmund Breakstone say. “An open hand and a little finger,” Lady Waynwood replied, with a nod toward Petyr Baelish. Breakstone was not slow to take her meaning. The true source of this largesse was not Lord Nestor, but the Lord Protector.




...I don't think it is a huge stretch that LittleFinger had more than a littlefinger involved who in competed (a copy of the guest list was found in his office after all) and I would wager he made damned sure that Harry was included in the tourney. Could it for a reason as simple as getting Harry near Sansa so she can get her flirt on? Most probably. Or, does LF ave a more sinister plan afoot? Such as offing Harry at the tourney? Although I cannot even begin to fathom to what purpose LF would have to do such a thing yet.


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Interesting. I noticed the bit about Sansa admiring Sweetrobin's hair, since it seemed to be repeating the bit from AFFC. I was prepared to dismiss it on the basis of sloppy writing--since a lot of the writing in this chapter was very sloppy--but assuming it's intentional, there's something we're supposed to pick up on there. With that said, I don't know that Sweetrobin will live long enough to marry Alayne. He keeps being dosed with sweetsleep, and that stuff doesn't go away, according to Colemon; it accumulates in the system. On the other hand, he could beat the odds and survive the series, as you suggest. Even then, he might not necessarily marry Sansa, but he could prove a valuable ally. There's also Sansa's feelings to consider; she's contemptuous of Sweetrobin, thinking of him as a little fool, and sees nothing of value in him to love except his hair. That could change, I suppose, if Sweetrobin grows and matures, but it's unlikely. Sweetrobin if he lives could grow up to be decently attractive, as much as he repulses Sansa now. It sounds like Jon Arryn was a hottie in his youth, if Harry resembles him, and Lysa was quite pretty when she was younger. Even if Littlefinger is Sweetrobin's biological father, Littlefinger is also supposed to be reasonably good-looking, I thought.

One thing's for sure: Sweetrobin's possessiveness of Alayne, first suggested in AFFC, isn't going anywhere. Not only does he want Alayne to himself and insist that he loves her, he also claims that he can do as he likes since he's the Lord of the Eyrie. And then there's this bit:

Whether he lives or dies in the future, I think Sweetrobin's possessiveness towards Alayne, coupled with his dislike of Harry, is going to cause trouble.

Well, if Sweerobin is paralleling LF, as his son or as a weak little boy desiring for a girl who chooses for whatever reason stronger suitor, we should not hope he lives as nothing good ever came from LF surviving duel with Brandon.

Anyways that brought up a little crackpot in my mind. Do you remember what was the only thing Joffrey who was no bright lad accomplished all by himself and no one figured it for some time? Of course his attempt to have Bran killed. Yes, Sweetrobin is younger and behaves even younger than his actual age, but Big Walder was only a year older and most likely killed his own cousin. So could it be that GRRM shocks us all and Harry's demise comes from the most unlikely source?

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Am I the only one who thinks Harry came out as a nicer person than expected.

Genuinely caring for his bastard, might have loved Saffron at some point.

...I don't think it is a huge stretch that LittleFinger had more than a littlefinger involved who competed (a copy of the guest list was found in his office after all) and I would wager he made damned sure that Harry was included in the tourney. Could it for a reason as simple as getting Harry near Sansa so she can get her flirt on? Most probably. Or, does LF ave a more sinister plan afoot? Such as offing Harry at the tourney?

I'm just typing out load here and can not even begin to fathom to what purpose LF would have to do such a thing yet.

LF has pretty good control of the Vale through Sansa and SR. Harry is in fact a risk.

By betrothing Harry to his bastard-daughter, LF has a perfect alibi. Why would he off someone that could potentially make his bastard the wife of lord paramount of the Vale.

But this plan would include keeping SR alive. And LF doesn´t seem to want that. The opposite in fact.

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(Hodor The Articulate)

I found her outwardly behaviour a little jarring, after reading her inner-thoughts. I mean, she's still having rather childish thoughts like "And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt", but then, all of a sudden, she's all "I’ll be all the spice you’ll want".

Also, am I the only one that felt she was really OOC towards the end, there? I know she's gained a lot of confidence since leaving KL, but where did all this playfulness come from?

As I'd said, maybe is her releasing some repressed highborn behaviour. Sansa has not acted this way since prior to her father's downfall - since then, she's been treated as someone of no importance (as a hostage, important but without any freedom of action and full of fear), and as early Alayne, as a "bastard" who's meek because she's hiding who she really is. Well, she's still "Alayne", but since then she has grown more important and active, much more into being the Lord Protector's Daughter than some generic bastard.

Alayne loved it here. She felt alive again, for the first since her father… since Lord Eddard Stark had died.

Important quote right there.

It seems to mesh with what we see in her thoughts - much more thinking of herself as Alayne, Lord Petyr Baelish's daughter.

Controversy? Well, again - the quote provides it. Sansa Stark thinks of her father, but her Alayne persona jumps in and censors it - "Lord Eddard Stark", not "her father". (And I'm sure Littlefinger is encouraging this.)

And in a way, the atmosphere of the tourney is a lure for her to go further down this path. The tourney was her idea? "Clever girl". But it's also her finally being able to hearken back to pre-downfall Sansa in her natural environment: a social one, a courtly one - and one where she is the female focus of attention. Sure, she may be "Alayne Stone" to these people, but for the first time in a long time, she has a fairly superior position and is enjoying it.

Indeed, while she's being all adult and reasonable, Harry shows up and reminds her of her bastard status, so he feels superior to her, while she is miffed by the fact she is cannot reveal herself as his superior. Though she does give him some verbal payback later, she takes a disliking to him. Part of that is because her instincts maybe have it correct about him, but part is also her stung pride.

Well the cliffhanger is, who will wear Alayne's favor?

My guess at this point? She may throw a wrench in the works by choosing Lothor Brune or Lyn Corbray - though, there's potential danger of either choice backfiring horribly.

Also: Wearing someone's favour? Like her mother did in choosing Brandon Stark's over Petyr Baelish's. No trouble lurking there - har !

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Am I the only one who thinks Harry came out as a nicer person than expected.

Genuinely caring for his bastard, might have loved Saffron at some point.

LF has pretty good control of the Vale through Sansa and SR. Harry is in fact a risk.

By betrothing Harry to his bastard-daughter, LF has a perfect alibi. Why would he off someone that could potentially make his bastard the wife of lord paramount of the Vale.

But this plan would include keeping SR alive. And LF doesn´t seem to want that. The opposite in fact.

It wouldn't be the first time it has been suggested LF had someone offed at a tourney and made it look like an accident.

If we entertain the suggestion that LF is plotting to kill Harry, Lyn would appear a likely candidate to do the deed.

A few quotes to add a bit of meat to the bare bones...

A few moments later and the big man sprawled dazed in the dust with his helm askew. When his squire undid the fastenings to bare his head, there was blood trickling down his scalp. If the swords had not been blunted, there would be brains as well.

Lyn certainly seems to be warming up for something.

“Do you think if I asked nicely Ser Lyn would kill my suitors for me?”

“He might, for a plump bag of gold.” Ser Lyn Corbray was forever desperately short of coin, all the Vale knew that.

Foreshadowing perhaps?

How kind of him.” Corbray’s lips drew back in something that might have been meant as a smile, though it gave Alayne a chill. “But what need have I for heirs when I am landless and like to remain so, thanks to our Lord Protector? No. lord father I need none of his brood mares

No need for heirs hmmmmmmm? Perhaps referring to Harry the heir?

(Yes, I am aware that I am clutching at very.short.straws. here, but sometimes throwing out these crazy ideas leads to something bigger)

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Am I the only one who thinks Harry came out as a nicer person than expected.

Genuinely caring for his bastard, might have loved Saffron at some point.

LF has pretty good control of the Vale through Sansa and SR. Harry is in fact a risk.

By betrothing Harry to his bastard-daughter, LF has a perfect alibi. Why would he off someone that could potentially make his bastard the wife of lord paramount of the Vale.

But this plan would include keeping SR alive. And LF doesn´t seem to want that. The opposite in fact.

Harry 'loved' his last companion too. Until she became 'fat' post-pregnancy...
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Here's a question I haven't seen even asked: what method of coercion have the Waynwoods used to make Harry do something he clearly doesn't want to do?

They are getting money out of it, LF is getting power out of it...what's Harry getting out of it? He's second in line w/e the Waynwoods or LF say, so what means of pressure can they apply? What makes him ask Sansa to dance when, again, he clearly doesn't want to? What does Lady Waynwood say, 'pretty please', or...? What might make him have to marry someone his society says is well beneath him, an insult to his honour?

Implicit threats against his children? Hints that accidents can happen? Or just the usual 'you'll marry who and when we say you'll marry because we own your rights'?

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Here's a question I haven't seen even asked: what method of coercion have the Waynwoods used to make Harry do something he clearly doesn't want to do?

They are getting money out of it, LF is getting power out of it...what's Harry getting out of it? He's second in line w/e the Waynwoods or LF say, so what means of pressure can they apply? What makes him ask Sansa to dance when, again, he clearly doesn't want to? What does Lady Waynwood say, 'pretty please', or...? What might make him have to marry someone his society says is well beneath him, an insult to his honour?

Implicit threats against his children? Hints that accidents can happen? Or just the usual 'you'll marry who and when we say you'll marry because we own your rights'?

Isn't the betrothal dependent on Harry actually liking Alayne? So, they don't need to do anything to persuade him, they simply say: come to the tourney, take part. She's there too, see how you like her
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Here's a question I haven't seen even asked: what method of coercion have the Waynwoods used to make Harry do something he clearly doesn't want to do?

They are getting money out of it, LF is getting power out of it...what's Harry getting out of it? He's second in line w/e the Waynwoods or LF say, so what means of pressure can they apply? What makes him ask Sansa to dance when, again, he clearly doesn't want to? What does Lady Waynwood say, 'pretty please', or...? What might make him have to marry someone his society says is well beneath him, an insult to his honour?

Implicit threats against his children? Hints that accidents can happen? Or just the usual 'you'll marry who and when we say you'll marry because we own your rights'?

If Anya is like a mother to him, asking might be enough.

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Here's a question I haven't seen even asked: what method of coercion have the Waynwoods used to make Harry do something he clearly doesn't want to do?

They are getting money out of it, LF is getting power out of it...what's Harry getting out of it? He's second in line w/e the Waynwoods or LF say, so what means of pressure can they apply? What makes him ask Sansa to dance when, again, he clearly doesn't want to? What does Lady Waynwood say, 'pretty please', or...? What might make him have to marry someone his society says is well beneath him, an insult to his honour?

Implicit threats against his children? Hints that accidents can happen? Or just the usual 'you'll marry who and when we say you'll marry because we own your rights'?

As his guardian, Waynwood is entitled to make betrothals for him.

What confuses me about this is how public all this is, and well before Sansa even wins him over to the idea.

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