GRRM considering big twist for a major character

[Deviled Cleg]

Great stuff OP. good find.

Hard to draw any conclusions bc all my past theories require that George had already planned them, due to the textual evidence that lead me there in the first place.

New twist could be just about anything but i think it will be more likely a complimentary character rather than a major character.

I would like to see Loras Tyrell come out of Dragonstone alive and well. perhaps as his sisters champion, if she requires one

I was also thinking some twist with Darkstar, then ruled it out all the Dornish bc of their late introduction, but then reconsidered if it was a twist through Myrcella.

The parantage of Tomen/Myrcella would affect 3-4 people depending on whos alive when it all comes out.

Actually it would affect the whole realm, but 3-4 characters much more directly

[The Human Abstract]

Yes exactly. If it makes sense with the text set up as it is, there's a chance that fans already have it as a theory. I find that interesting.

[Cas Stark]

I agree and I disagree. Martin's quote does say he's thought of a new twist that would change things and that it would impact decisions the show made to cut or compress. He hasn't said he would definitely do it and I doubt he would because it might take longer to "unwrite" and rewrite the chapter(s), it would put bad blood between him and HBO and would disappoint a certain segment of his book fans. Ironically, making changes - the bigger the better - would make another segment of his fans super happy. Still, ultimately I don't think he'll do it and made the statement because he wanted to stress the butterfly effect he's mentioned before and to keep the interest in his books after the show spoils things. I think he'll continue to stress the differences as we get into season 7.

He would be better off, you know, just getting the damn book out. Just sayin.

Based on the quote, it would seem like it affects a character or characters who are cut or dead or soon to die this year: Greyjoy brothers, Stoneheart, Arianne, Aegon & co, whomever they kill early this year.

[lojzelote]

Ah. He ought to inform us in Author's Notes what this was about.

But seriously, I think he's just trying to get people continue to read the books instead of becoming content with only the show.

[The Human Abstract]

I don't think he'll have any problem getting people to read the books with or without this.

[Prince of the North]

I don't think he'll have any problem getting people to read the books with or without this.

Very much agreed. While I will enjoy the show for what it is, for me, the books are far greater and far more important. And I don't think I'm particularly unique in this ;)

[Chilli]

Based on the quote, it would seem like it affects a character or characters who are cut or dead or soon to die this year: Greyjoy brothers, Stoneheart, Arianne, Aegon & co, whomever they kill early this year.

The Greyjoys, Lady Stoneheart, Arianne, Aegon & co can still be added next season if important for the story.

It must be someone who cannot be added or who's dead or who's storyline has changed too much. It could be Jeyne Westerling, Jojen or someone who dies this season. It's difficult to guess without knowing the changes the show will make this season.

[lojzelote]

Eh, I'm not claiming otherwise, but it gives me the airs of "the books will have a great twist the show won't, so read the books, kids".

[jbent87]

Dany turning mad/Euron = Darrio are some theories that have been brought up as of late which he probably didn't consider at first but now intrigue him - would effect multiple characters and the show is probably past the point of introducing/risking such drastic changes.

[SevasTra82]

People seem to forget GRRM has a ton of other side projects going on....TWOW isn't his only writing obligation.

By his account, he writes approx. 500 words a day. If TWOW is 1200 words long (give or take), that's 350,000 words....which is 600 days, almost TWO FULL YEARS to finish a single draft, and that's going on the notion he does 500 *every* day (which we all know, he doesn't).

Now, throw in time for multiple drafts, numerous revisions and editing, changes to the plot that happens...all this very well could take an additional year or two. Then it all has to go to his copy editors, who then have to spend the time doing their OWN revisions etc.

Combine that with the other multitude of projects GRRM has going on right now, is it really a big surprise that it takes this long to get the book out? If you really take a step back and think about it logically....people really shouldn't be surprised that it takes him 4-5 years to finish a book. It's A LOT of work, especially for a man who can't even take a crap without people writing about it. I feel for him.

[Cas Stark]

People seem to forget GRRM has a ton of other side projects going on....TWOW isn't his only writing obligation.

By his account, he writes approx. 500 words a day. If TWOW is 1200 words long (give or take), that's 350,000 words....which is 600 days, almost TWO FULL YEARS to finish a single draft, and that's going on the notion he does 500 *every* day (which we all know, he doesn't).

Now, throw in time for multiple drafts, numerous revisions and editing, changes to the plot that happens...all this very well could take an additional year or two. Then it all has to go to his copy editors, who then have to spend the time doing their OWN revisions etc.

Combine that with the other multitude of projects GRRM has going on right now, is it really a big surprise that it takes this long to get the book out? If you really take a step back and think about it logically....people really shouldn't be surprised that it takes him 4-5 years to finish a book. It's A LOT of work, especially for a man who can't even take a crap without people writing about it. I feel for him.

Game of Thrones: August, 1996

Clash of Kings, November 1998

Storm of Swords, August 2000

He clearly is capable of writing much faster, or he was at one time than one book every 4-6 years.

[ambi76]

Dany turning mad/Euron = Darrio...

:spank:

Varys the merman confirmed.

[Harry the Hair]

So we have a "a big, revealing twist" on a "long-time character" that the show can't do because it "has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it" and 3 or 4 characters are involved in it.

I'm inclined to think that this has something to do with either the Greyjoys, LS or Coldhands. The show pretty much scrapped their plot line which would make the revealing twist impossible. Another possibility could be Sansa, her story seems to have diverged a lot from the books in season 5.

[juanml82]

So we have a "a big, revealing twist" on a "long-time character" that the show can't do because it "has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it" and 3 or 4 characters are involved in it.

I'm inclined to think that this has something to do with either the Greyjoys, LS or Coldhands. The show pretty much scrapped their plot line which would make the revealing twist impossible. Another possibility could be Sansa, her story seems to have diverged a lot from the books in season 5.

Actually, it can sort of make it easier. Maybe not regarding Coldhands (why would he appear in the show at all) and it's tricky regarding LS (she's been hiding for too many seasons). But the Greyjoys? All they need to do is to remember the audience the Iron Islands existed and they characterize them as the twist demands.

I think it has to be about some character whose plot or characterization changed in a way the show can't retcon he/she back at the place it will be in the books.

[Corvinus85]

Actually, it can sort of make it easier. Maybe not regarding Coldhands (why would he appear in the show at all) and it's tricky regarding LS (she's been hiding for too many seasons). But the Greyjoys? All they need to do is to remember the audience the Iron Islands existed and they characterize them as the twist demands.

I think it has to be about some character whose plot or characterization changed in a way the show can't retcon he/she back at the place it will be in the books.

I agree. Others mentioned Gendry, and having just re-watched season 3 I would give credence to that guess. I'll put the rest in spoilers, because this topic touches on both shows and books, and last I checked we're not supposed to combine them.

Wherever Gendry is now on the show, his story ended up being quite different, because it is unlikely that he will return to the Brotherhood, and he probably has developed a healthy dislike for the followers of R'hllor. In the book he is still a member, and he is a follower as well. Characters to be affected: Brienne, Jaime, and LS. The twist will be that Jaime, when brought before the Brotherhood, will have a similar reaction to what Brienne had when she saw Gendry, only he will spill the beans and declare that Gendry is Robert's son. This will lead to the Brotherhood electing Gendry as their leader (once LS dies, because she probably will), and Gendry will lead the Brotherhood either in a religious war with the rising Faith faction, or as a new candidate for the throne. (or both) all told from Jaime's or Brienne's pov.

[juanml82]

After reading the spoilers for Season 5, im pretty convinced that its Sansa.

I don't know. Sophie Turner said Sansa would end this season in an ambiguous position, whatever that means, and very likely in the North. Unless the twist happens before Sansa's rise to power (if any, that is), I don't see why the show could put Sansa back into a similar situation to whatever the twist is.

Say, imagine GRRM is planning to have Sansa as Lady of Harrenhall and Littlefinger's deputy in the Riverlands. And the twist will happen there. The show has Sansa as Queen in the North (maybe, I'm imagining here)/Rickon's regent. Whatever the twist is, how difficult is for an analogue twist to happen in the North, or to have Sansa travel south?

If the twist is regarding book!Sansa regarding Aegon and the show doesn't have an equivalent male pretender to the Iron Throne, it could work... unless they make Show!Sansa bisexual.

[Warsaw]

I don't know if its been mentioned, but what about Sansa poisoning someone, for example Littlefinger, with the hairnet? It was a necklace in the show and it was destroyed. I don't know if it can be considered a twist, but it depends on who she poisons, I guess.

[juanml82]

I don't know if its been mentioned, but what about Sansa poisoning someone, for example Littlefinger, with the hairnet? It was a necklace in the show and it was destroyed. I don't know if it can be considered a twist, but it depends on who she poisons, I guess.

The show can make her get poison in some other way

[DrakkoShade]

Sam the Slayer is a bastard. A great big bastard.

[Hos the Hostage]

I don't know if its been mentioned, but what about Sansa poisoning someone, for example Littlefinger, with the hairnet? It was a necklace in the show and it was destroyed. I don't know if it can be considered a twist, but it depends on who she poisons, I guess.

If Sansa will poison LF, its going to be an event, and while it may come as twist, I don't reckon it classifies as a 'revealing twist', because as of now, LF is alive in both books and show. Of course something really unexpected may happen in S5. But since we are speaking of Sansa and poisoning, I'd say Sansa-killed-Joffrey theorists should come forward and support the cause.

It is never explicit in the books who killed Joffrey. GRRM must have had something on his mind while he wrote purple wedding, but after say, seeing Sophie's dark pesona in season 5, he (just now-that makes this unlikely, still..) got the idea to make Sansa the killer.. that would be a crazy revealing twist about a long-time character, and I'm sure GRRM can make it work such that it does work with other characters' storylines. In the show, in the episode that GRRM wrote, there was still the possibility of Sansa putting something in the cup she gave Tyrion. But in later episodes, Sansa has no clue who killed Joffrey till LF says it.

But again, now I think its more difficult to make Margaery the killer than to make Sansa the killer. Margaery really seems to have no clue about what happened in PW, except that she is no longer married to a living king.