jbent87 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Stoneheart knows Arya is alive in the books. Does she? How? Nymeria brought her out of the river I believe but not like LSH would know that was via Arya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Does she? How? Nymeria brought her out of the river I believe but not like LSH would know that was via Arya? Because the Brotherhood captured Arya, so they know she was alive from the time she disappeared in KL until at least the Hound kidnapped her which is why they're looking for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I believe DW&DB have cut LSH because she has less dialogues than Hodor and it would not be a role worthy of Michelle Fairley. And anyway they cut the Riverlands in totality. And the Freys, like the Tullys are as good as forgotten now. In the books, I believe Ladystoneheart has some important purpose, related to magic and gods. She is undead, like the wight, and I believe she will have something to do with the Others. There is one passage in AFfC, which impressed me, when Brienne met LSH: "Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart." I believe she is a priestess of the Stranger now. But magic and gods are not something DW&DB develop a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yeah, maybe they don't care about the tullys in general for some reason? Where is Edmure?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwight Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yeah, maybe they don't care about the tullys in general for some reason? Where is Edmure?....... I find it unfortunate that he hasn't been namedropped even once in all of season 4 and 5 so far. Nor the Blackfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya and Needle Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A good screen adaptation retains the arcs and motivations of characters with minor revisions to deal with decriptive text that ponders over scenery and appearances. Cutting characters, merging characters, altering characters motivations, and inventing characters are the very definition of poor adaptation. That's an extremely childish and immature definition of a "good adaptation" and of a "poor adaptation." No one in litearture or television or the movie industry would agree with those definitions, and they are definitions which imply every single adaptation ever is a "poor adaptation." It'd also be nice if you could keep this stuff in your thread, and not troll every single thread on the board with the exact same stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That's an extremely childish and immature definition of a "good adaptation" and of a "poor adaptation." No one in litearture or television or the movie industry would agree with those definitions, and they are definitions which imply every single adaptation ever is a "poor adaptation." Notwitthstanding your denigration of children (insinuating that to be a child is to be inferior) my very existence refutes your claim that "no one" would agree with such definitions. It'd also be nice if you could keep this stuff in your thread, and not troll every single thread on the board with the exact same stuff. It would be nice if you paid attention to the threads I have commented in. For instance, this one we are currently involved in began with a question about why characters are cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of the Morgan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't remember her showing up until AFFC anyway, but I might be wrong about that. I figure they just didn't want to spoil her with some random Frey. Might be they're just saving her for when Brienne and Podrick encounter the Brotherhood. That'd be a much better scene. Epilogue of ASoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Stark Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If she's cut, it's likely because she amounts to very little in the end game. Yeah, That is what I was thinking too. She is already dead anyway so I wouldn't expect too much from her, if she somehow pops up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah, That is what I was thinking too. She is already dead anyway so I wouldn't expect too much from her, if she somehow pops up. George RR Martin has completely refuted that argument:“Lady Stoneheart does have a role in the books,” Martin said. “Whether it’s sufficient or interesting enough… I think it is, or I wouldn’t have put her in.” http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart I think the main reason they removed Stoneheart (which I think was a late decision) is that they didn't really like Catelyn Stark's character. Likewise, after Season 3, they got overpraised for the Red Wedding and so they decided that if they put Stoneheart the newsmedia might feel they are copping out, so they removed it altogether. If they were never going to include Stoneheart why did they include the BWB, why spend so much time with Beric Dondarrion, and the whole "coming-back-from-death" thing? I think the iniital idea was to bring Stoneheart back next season but they changed that after Season 3. Ideally if they were going to include her, they should have resurrected her at the end of S3 in the final scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 George RR Martin has completely refuted that argument:“Lady Stoneheart does have a role in the books,” Martin said. “Whether it’s sufficient or interesting enough… I think it is, or I wouldn’t have put her in.” http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart I think the main reason they removed Stoneheart (which I think was a late decision) is that they didn't really like Catelyn Stark's character. Likewise, after Season 3, they got overpraised for the Red Wedding and so they decided that if they put Stoneheart the newsmedia might feel they are copping out, so they removed it altogether. If they were never going to include Stoneheart why did they include the BWB, why spend so much time with Beric Dondarrion, and the whole "coming-back-from-death" thing? I think the iniital idea was to bring Stoneheart back next season but they changed that after Season 3. Ideally if they were going to include her, they should have resurrected her at the end of S3 in the final scene. Yes, that's true. She should have appeared before. But, now, they have another good opportunity. Even the finale title is perfect (or they are laughing at book readers). If she doesn't appear in episode 10 (chances are about 5%) they will also be saying that the arcs of the characters surrounded by her (hello Jamie?) are irrelevant to the plot, or that they will die in another manner. I found Brienne's cliffhanger in affw and Jamie's (adwd) really amazing, and I don't understand why they may not be using them. I didn't become a reader until this year, after season 4 aired. I enjoyed the show so much, (otherwise i would have never read the books) but now I like the books even more. I'm quite a bit disappointed because they COULD have done a better adaptation (just a bit better with some characters), and yes, I know that it is extremely difficult to adapt, but...come on...you have good material! (and boring chapters, ok, but LSH is a good one!) I find it unfortunate that he hasn't been namedropped even once in all of season 4 and 5 so far. Nor the Blackfish. Definitely, they don't like Catelyn/Tullys, but I still want some resolution, saying their names... or their whereabouts. At least Jamie has to return to the Riverlands.... But there is still hope. Sam's arc is totally different, but they said something about a huge library.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Because the Brotherhood captured Arya, so they know she was alive from the time she disappeared in KL until at least the Hound kidnapped her which is why they're looking for her. i am sure she must feel so safe knowing that Arya was running around with the Hound and is only God knows where at the current state. She doesnt know if she is dead or alive, the BWB didnt meet her 5 minutes after Arya left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damorian Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 As I've said here before, I'm resigned to this ship having sailed in the light of George including her in his list. Suffice to say, I don't think the 'Mother's Mercy' thing or Portman's already infamous 'break the internet!" soundbyte (which could just as well have been referring to Jon & not something in his storyline, tbh) is enough to get me back aboard the Stoneheart hype train one last time. I've been burned by more fake tweets, false starts, soundtrack cues and instagrams these past two years in hoping for that character than I can care to remember. You start to tire of the same old arguments: that Stoneheart's role is inconsequential (GRRM now begs to differ) or she undermines the dramatic impact of the wedding (when yes, done wrong as a mindless 'zombie' in the Alex Graves definition, she surely does. Done right, as a sentient being who's lost the better part of herself to vengeance, she only increases its tragic power. Walder didn't just take her life; he took her soul.) But it IS almost certainly now or never for the character, unless she comes back a bag of bones (cuz let's face it, the only outcome worse than no Stoneheart would be LSH done completely wrong, i.e: OTT all-cg partial skeleton like something from a Pirates of The Caribbean movie, instead of Fairley in restrained high quality prosthetics inhabiting her scenes.) My personal feeling on the next-to-non-existent chance of her still making the S5 finale is this: given the Sansa/Bolton marriage being the focal point at Winterfell and the flatlining of the riverlands, Stoneheart and the BWB would clearly have to beeline for The North. The first to swing on screen would therefore be a Bolton, not a Frey, and they have reminded us it was Roose who "put the dagger through Robb Stark's heart" about five or six times already this season. But people also appear to have forgotten this: Roose's anecdote about the miller's wife. Remember? And how did the miller die? There's a very slim chance (and by slim, I mean slimmer than a gnat's pube) they had Roose expressly mention hanging him from a tree to have his way with the poor fucker's wife earlier this season not just to underline to Ramsay what a nasty sire-of-bastards his father really is, but because Lord Roose Bolton: murderer of Robb, wearer of chainmail under his sleeve, and traitor #1 to Catelyn's face, up close n' personal at the wedding, will be the first to dance the hempen jig of Stoneheart's noose. David Nutter as director coming full circle, as well as karma ... and yes, two words that rhyme (though I doubt that lends the theory much credence ... :dunce: ) After all, they replaced that whole chainmail reveal with Catelyn stopping Edwyn Frey in ASOS for Roose at HBO's Red Wedding, and what an effective switch it was. They could do it again here. Merrett Frey’s unpleasant death made it known that this was no clear victory for the Starks. He wasn't heavily involved in what he was accused of and was to some extent an innocent where Roose or Ramsay swinging would by contrast be clearer cut and allow the unsullied to bask a little in the hope of Starks resurgent after witnessing Jon fall (at least, until they realize what Stoneheart really is.) But since, for whatever reason, D&D seem pathologically locked into dangling carrots of hope and whipping them away with this character (exhibit a: practically every finale title of the past three years :dunno: ) you have to realistically conclude that hope is a dangerous thing on the Stoneheart hype train, my friends. Get off at the next stop just before arrival and drown your sorrows over a drink. And if The North doesn't remember, remember this .... http://media.giphy.com/media/xTiTnryc4mymkOk5qw/giphy.gif ... we all have Dorne instead. :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oierem Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 George RR Martin has completely refuted that argument:“Lady Stoneheart does have a role in the books,” Martin said. “Whether it’s sufficient or interesting enough… I think it is, or I wouldn’t have put her in.” http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart Yes, and Martin has said that Garlan and Wyllan Tyrell have an important role in the future books, and that Mago being alive is important.... But considering the number of characters he already has and that he wants to finish the story in two more books, I think he is exaggerating. In any case, LSH's role isn't going to be crucial to resolve the stories of the main characters of the series. I think the main reason they removed Stoneheart (which I think was a late decision) is that they didn't really like Catelyn Stark's character. Likewise, after Season 3, they got overpraised for the Red Wedding and so they decided that if they put Stoneheart the newsmedia might feel they are copping out, so they removed it altogether. If they were never going to include Stoneheart why did they include the BWB, why spend so much time with Beric Dondarrion, and the whole "coming-back-from-death" thing? I think the iniital idea was to bring Stoneheart back next season but they changed that after Season 3. Ideally if they were going to include her, they should have resurrected her at the end of S3 in the final scene. I doubt that's the reason. First of all, if they wanted to include LSH, the finale of season 3 was a good place to show the BWB finding her body (as most fans assumed back then). Second, the scripts for season 4 were written before the Red Wedding episode even aired, so the decission was already made, most probably. They included the BWB because it was part of Arya's story and plot. And the "coming-back-from-death" thing is setting up another much more important resurrection that will happen soon. I think the showrunners were really clever to include Melissandre in that plot... Personally, I'm so glad they cut LSH. Regardless of my feelings about the character, I think the constant resurrections/fake deaths are incredibly cheap and LSH would totally diminish the impact of the RW. If they have to resurrect someone, it should be someone who's really crucial to the endgame. Someone who can lead the living againts the death and oppose the White Walkers. I wounder who that person might be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The cut LSH because they wanted to include three D&D inventions that actual GRRM characters and plots would have made impossible: The Wacky Adventures of Arya and the Hound, The Brienne and Podrick Show, and The Battle of Brienne and the Hound. Like Sansa in Winterfell, the writers knew they wanted these things to happen (plot be damned) so they made whatever changes were necessary. So, LSH couldn't exist because she exists to capture Brienne, who then wouldn't be able to hang out with Pod and go on to defeat the Hound. The Hound couldn't be injured in the tavern because he had to stick around to fight Brienne and provide comic relief with Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The cut LSH because they wanted to include three D&D inventions that actual GRRM characters and plots would have made impossible: The Wacky Adventures of Arya and the Hound, The Brienne and Podrick Show, and The Battle of Brienne and the Hound. They could have had all three of those while including LSH. That's obviously not the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Lady Stoneheart having an important role to play might just be something like she forgives Jamie and it is part of her redemption and she finds some peace knowing that Jon isn't Ned's bastard and goes away. That's interesting, it has meaning. Is it worth the show runners paying Michelle Fairley to come back and spending time and resources on a plotline that doesn't effect the overall endgame? That's debatable. Especially when they have 20, maybe 30, hours of television to wrap things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 They could have had all three of those while including LSH. That's obviously not the reason. How is Brienne supposed to spend an entire season hanging out with Pod, meet Arya, and then have an epic battle with the Hound if she has been captured by the BWB and about to be hanged by LSH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 How is Brienne supposed to spend an entire season hanging out with Pod, meet Arya, and then have an epic battle with the Hound if she has been captured by the BWB and about to be hanged by LSH? Or for that matter why not have Brienne hang out with Septon Meribald and interact with smallfolk and battered veterans. Why not give her the most important scenes where she confesses to the priest at the Sept at Quiet Isle and decides she will go forth on her quest. Why not have her kill Rorge and Biter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Or for that matter why not have Brienne hang out with Septon Meribald and interact with smallfolk and battered veterans. Why not give her the most important scenes where she confesses to the priest at the Sept at Quiet Isle and decides she will go forth on her quest. Why not have her kill Rorge and Biter? Because wouldn't it be cool if Brienne fought the Hound after Arya and the Hound have a series of hilarious exchanges while being travelling buddies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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