The main reason that Aegon is real that you all forgot

[Buried Treasure]

'There must be one more,' 'the dragon has three heads' - Rheager counted Rhaenys as one and Aegon as the second. Even is Aegon lives Rheagar still for his interpretation wrong as Rhaenys certainly died.

[sj4iy]

'There must be one more,' 'the dragon has three heads' - Rheager counted Rhaenys as one and Aegon as the second. Even is Aegon lives Rheagar still for his interpretation wrong as Rhaenys certainly died.

This. Of course, Rhaegar's son COULD, in fact, be TPTWP...only it could be the son he never knew he had. Again...an example of prophecy twisting things.

[Lost Umber]

"There must be one more." I simply thought this was referring to Jon.

Rhaegar had Rhaella and Aegon and needed a third to fulfill his crazy ass prophecy. Elia couldn't bear any more children so he stole the northern girl he fancied.

[Buried Treasure]

I don't disagree, though I remain undecided about how much prophecy motivated his taking her versus other events.

But when discuss whether Rhaegar's interpretation of prophecy, us agreeing that Jon was child 3 means Rhaenys was child 2. Nobody but the crackpots is arguing Rhaenys still lives, so what we are agreeing is that Rheagar had at least part of his interpretation wrong.

If he was wrong that Rhaenys was a head of the dragon, he could also be wrong that Aegon was one; so the prophecy cannot sensibly be seen as proof that Jon C's Aegon is Rhaegar's son.

[bent branch]

I don't disagree, though I remain undecided about how much prophecy motivated his taking her versus other events.

But when discuss whether Rhaegar's interpretation of prophecy, us agreeing that Jon was child 3 means Rhaenys was child 2. Nobody but the crackpots is arguing Rhaenys still lives, so what we are agreeing is that Rheagar had at least part of his interpretation wrong.

If he was wrong that Rhaenys was a head of the dragon, he could also be wrong that Aegon was one; so the prophecy cannot sensibly be seen as proof that Jon C's Aegon is Rhaegar's son.

It seems to me that you are thinking that what is represented in the vision is an accurate recreation of what actually happened. If it is a "magical" scene being shown for Dany's benefit, then the implication is the three heads of the dragon are Dany, Aegon and one more. Concentrating on whether Rhaegar was right or wrong in real life is totally ignoring the mystical aspects of the scene, imo.

ETA: Notice that Dany gets the message that she is one of the heads and there are two more, rather than the three heads are three people besides her.

[nickdt]

There were already three. Rhaegar was wrong. He didn't count himself, while he still was from the line of Aerys. Also, Viserys was there. He was the fourth in line of succesion, but also from the line of Aerys. In Rhaegars mindset, only his children could have been the PTWP. And if he counted himself, because Rhaenys was a girl, then he excluded Viserys. Including Viserys at that point, makes Rhaegars count very wrong. What if Viserys was the PTWP. Rhaegar took Lyanna and made a baby, as most assume. Rhaegar died, but what would have happened when the baby was stillborn. Basically, Rhaegar doomed Westeros, because he was too cocky to include Viserys. If he had, he wouldn't had made the move to abduct Lyanna and could have waited for Viserys to made the line further grow.

Conclusion: Rhaegar was mad.

[Frey family reunion]

One other possibility is that Aegon was in fact switched, but he isn't the pretender, Young Griff.

[Kordyn Wynn]

Are there any other references in the books to back up the notion that "the dragon has three heads"?

We all agree that Rhaegar was wrong about several parts of the prophecy. He was incorrect when he thought the prophecy referred to him, and he was incorrect when he thought his daughter was one of the dragon riders.

Is there any reason he couldn't have been wrong in his interpretation that the dragon must have three heads? Was this a part of the prophecy, similar to "born amidst salt and smoke" or "under the bleeding star", or was it something he came up with on his own after reading the prophecy.

I've seen other theories that suggest the prophecy is actually referring to one person instead of three (Jon), but that's more a question of OUR interpretation of Rhaegar's statement. What if he was substantively wrong in the first place?

I think most people have taken this statement as true because it makes sense. There are three dragons currently alive, so three riders/heads makes sense.

But since the statement was uttered by the same person and in the same scene as ones many people believe to be false (i.e. Aegon is the Prince that was Promised, His song is The Song of Ice and Fire), why couldn't "There must be one more" and "the dragon must have three heads" be untrue as well?

I'm not sure what implications this might have (there could be only one "head", there could me more than three, some other possibility that hasn't occurred to me), but the question hit me while I was reading this thread, so I thought I'd ask.

[Frey family reunion]

Are there any other references in the books to back up the notion that "the dragon has three heads"?

We all agree that Rhaegar was wrong about several parts of the prophecy. He was incorrect when he thought the prophecy referred to him, and he was incorrect when he thought his daughter was one of the dragon riders.

Is there any reason he couldn't have been wrong in his interpretation that the dragon must have three heads? Was this a part of the prophecy, similar to "born amidst salt and smoke" or "under the bleeding star", or was it something he came up with on his own after reading the prophecy.

I've seen other theories that suggest the prophecy is actually referring to one person instead of three (Jon), but that's more a question of OUR interpretation of Rhaegar's statement. What if he was substantively wrong in the first place?

I think most people have taken this statement as true because it makes sense. There are three dragons currently alive, so three riders/heads makes sense.

But since the statement was uttered by the same person and in the same scene as ones many people believe to be false (i.e. Aegon is the Prince that was Promised, His song is The Song of Ice and Fire), why couldn't "There must be one more" and "the dragon must have three heads" be untrue as well?

I'm not sure what implications this might have (there could be only one "head", there could me more than three, some other possibility that hasn't occurred to me), but the question hit me while I was reading this thread, so I thought I'd ask.

We really don't know if Rhaegar thought his daughter was one of the heads of the dragon. That's kind of an assumption that is made because many are assuming that he's speaking of his children as the heads of the dragon, since he speaks of the dragon having three heads right after he speaks of Aegon as being The Prince that Was Promised.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

We really don't know if Rhaegar thought his daughter was one of the heads of the dragon. That's kind of an assumption that is made because many are assuming that he's speaking of his children as the heads of the dragon, since he speaks of the dragon having three heads right after he speaks of Aegon as being The Prince that Was Promised.

Well, we may not know what Rhaegar thought, but we do know what Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought:

"It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was

certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth

of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just

talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

So, Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought the Prince was singular and male. And Aemon eventually thought the Prince is singular and female.

Now, perhaps Rhaegar changed his mind and figured the Prince was plural. Why didn't he tell Aemon? They were clearly sending messages to each other. That's a big revelation. Why not clue in Aemon?

And did Rhaegar decide the Prince was plural and male? Did he decide the Prince was plural and mixed gender? Again, why not clue in Aemon?

[Blade of Sunlight]

Well, we may not know what Rhaegar thought, but we do know what Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought:

"It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was

certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth

of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just

talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

So, Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought the Prince was singular and male. And Aemon eventually thought the Prince is singular and female.

Now, perhaps Rhaegar changed his mind and figured the Prince was plural. Why didn't he tell Aemon? They were clearly sending messages to each other. That's a big revelation. Why not clue in Aemon?

And did Rhaegar decide the Prince was plural and male? Did he decide the Prince was plural and mixed gender? Again, why not clue in Aemon?

Very interesting, just want to point out that just because "the dragon must have three heads" does not mean that the three are tPtwP, one can be the Prince/Princess and the other "sidekicks".

[nickdt]

Well, we may not know what Rhaegar thought, but we do know what Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought:

"It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was

certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth

of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just

talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

So, Aemon thinks Rhaegar thought the Prince was singular and male. And Aemon eventually thought the Prince is singular and female.

Now, perhaps Rhaegar changed his mind and figured the Prince was plural. Why didn't he tell Aemon? They were clearly sending messages to each other. That's a big revelation. Why not clue in Aemon?

And did Rhaegar decide the Prince was plural and male? Did he decide the Prince was plural and mixed gender? Again, why not clue in Aemon?

Maybe he didn't had the time to clue Aemon, or Aemon knew and decided to kept it a secret. When Aemon told Sam, he was dying. Aemon could have decided that the clue couldn't die with him and since Sam is loyal he was the most obvious choice to tell. By that time, Aemon did know he wouldn't make it to Oldtown. Aemon must have known about Marwyn. . Can Aemon have sent word to Marwyn that he was coming to Oldtown (It was Aemons proposition to send all the kings blood away). Was it with the purpose to join up with Marwyn. And is this why Aemon told about the Shpinx. The Sphinx is the Riddle, not the Riddler. But what if the real Riddle was Marwyn and that he left clues with the Sphinx for Sam, when he and Aemon were gonna meet Dany. If Aemon knew, its obvious he also would knew about Jon, but asking him to come along to Oldtown, would have raised eyebrows by Melisandre and then she may be figure out why she saw Snow while watching in the fires.

[Byfort of Corfe]

As far as I am concerned we have yet to see definitive proof that Aegon lived, much less that he is the fulfillment of some prophecy. Meanwhile we have folks, largely Illyrio and Jon Con, who have gone to great lengths to make Aegon appear to be real. At best you can say that Varys comes late to the table, if he really believes in this or not. Personally I am starting to believe that Varys simply wants peace, and in that is willing to acknowledge as King whoever seems able to sit on the Iron Throne and give that to the realm.

[Ghosts Lunch]

Quotes from A wiki of ice and fire (A clash of kings): "One of the visions Daenerys Targaryen sees in the House of the Undying involves Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon. In this vision, a newborn Aegon nurses from the breast of Elia. The woman is seated in a great wooden bed. Rhaegar decides on the name "Aegon" for his newborn son, as he thinks the name fit for a king. Elia asks whether Rhaegar will make a song for their son. He replies that Aegon already has a song, "the song of ice and fire". Part of his role as "the prince that was promised".

However, Rhaegar then claims that there must be "one more", since "the dragon has three heads". Rhaegar moves to a seat near the window, and picks up a harp. Daenerys listens to the "sweet sadness" of his music as the vision fades away."

If Aegon is the Song of Ice and Fire why would he be dead? Why would the name of the series will be about a song of a dead baby?

I think that Aegon must be alive whether he is the guy who claim to be Aegon, or another person.

And if he is the prince that was promised he must be real...

What do you think?

Reckon Dany is the Prince(ss) that was promised

Aegon as a Blackfyre is still a Dragon, so Dany, Jon and Aegon still works

Even as a Mummers Dragon, he may be a puppet but still a Dragon

Ultimately Quaithe is telling Dany her destiny does not lie in ruling Westeros, so she is telling her to beware all who would take her back, instead Quaithe wants Dany to go to Asshai so they can resurrect Valyria

[Balerion the kitten]

Maybe at one point he really was the Prince. After all he was conceived during a comet (bleeding star) and was born admist salt and smoke (dragonstone, smoke from volcano, salt from sea). But he's not now he's dead and young griff is fake. Maybe after his death the promise might have been passed to someone else.

Kinda like Margarey, right she's the other queen but Cersei can delay it. But that's all she can do. Killing margarey might stop the prophecy for the time but the task would just be passed to someone else. :dunno:

[Mithras]

There were obvious traps in the HotU and some visions were clearly false.

Even in the triplets of prophecies, we have Rhaego burning down a city. It is not even a possible future sneak peak because Rhaego was a typical Targaryen malformed baby who was not supposed to live long. So, the only reasonable explanation is that that vision metaphorically represents something else.

[Mithras]

Actually, it makes more sense to think that Rhaegar made a distinction between tPtwP and the three heads of the dragon. For Rhaegar, it seems like "tPtwP = The Dragon" and its three heads are three other people.

So, he probably took Aegon as The Dragon=tPtwP and himself as one of his heads. As for the other heads, feel free to guess.

[Grizzly Mormont]

literally nobody forgot this. faengorls conveniently dismiss it though because it doesn't fit into their blackfyre narrative.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Not In the show=not super important-unless GRRM changes his ending for the book only characters, which is now an actual thing.

[grufolo]

Not In the show=not super important-unless GRRM changes his ending for the book only characters, which is now an actual thing.

I would agree, but the show may have surprises for us coming.