[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

[HexMachina]

That would be an extremely low quality and disappointing story teling. There are many ways to shake the status quo and George generally prefers the deaths of significant characters in an unexpected way.

There are already many characters who failed to even find Sansa. Writing a character who finds Sansa, who knows her true identity and having him failed to abduct Sansa serves no purpose and makes no sense.

Because it's much more realistic to assume a single knight can escape the Vale, noted for its isolation and ability to be closed off from the rest of the Realm (see The Great Spring Sickness) with a girl who has no reason to accompany him, sure, of course.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

It has just struck me, that Ser Lyn will win the Melee.

Alayne tells Randa that ser lyn might kill her suitors for a plump bag of gold, and Sansa knows how the fight will end as soon as she see's who is sparing, she tells us that there would have been brains as well if the sword was not blunted and she compliments Ser Lyn on his skill at arms, and he acknowledges that yes he is indeed very good. He then reminds her he has no lands and so needs no heir, and she tells us that Ser Lyn is always desperately short of cash. Then when thinking on the Melee she thinks it is for the older generation, and there will be prises and ransoms. The Winged Knights are being awarded for jousting not swordsmanship, we haven't heard anything of Lyn as a jouster, but we just got told he is awesome with the sword. And he doesn't have need for wings and the honour of service he has need of cash, his is the melee.

Another thing which strikes me is that we've been informed of where Lady Anya is to sleep, and that there is no room for her knights in there.

Also Harry is to be put in the Falcon Tower, err sucking up much. LF is definitely trying to win harry over to his team. He is flattering him by placing him (The young Falcon) in the Falcon Tower, far away from SR yes but also he is telling Harry he is the Falcon, not SR.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

It has just struck me, that Ser Lyn will win the Melee. [...]

Another thing which strikes me is that we've been informed of where Lady Anya is to sleep, and that there is no room for her knights in there.

Also Harry is to be put in the Falcon Tower, err sucking up much. LF is definitely trying to win harry over to his team. He is flattering him by placing him (The young Falcon) in the Falcon Tower, far away from SR yes but also he is telling Harry he is the Falcon, not SR.

Woooohooooo! The Weirwoods' eyes don't miss much. ;)

[Mithras]

The daggers that will be distributed to those who will participate the melee point some "perfectly-placed daggers" among them (i.e. the brothers, uncles, fathers, and friends who had accompanied the competitors). So, that agent (or agents) will be the killer. This does not mean that a dagger will be used in the killing. George's melees are highly dangerous. It is easy to kill someone if one has enough "perfectly placed daggers" in the yard.

[Mithras]

Because it's much more realistic to assume a single knight can escape the Vale, noted for its isolation and ability to be closed off from the rest of the Realm (see The Great Spring Sickness) with a girl who has no reason to accompany him, sure, of course.

Shadrich is no sinlge knight. If he is a trained mice of Varys, he should know what he is doing. If Illyrio is informed that he should smuggle out a "package" from the Vale, he can arrange a ship somewhere remote around the Fingers. And Sansa will have exactly the same reason to accompany Shadrich when she accompanied Dontos once.

[HexMachina]

Shadrich is no sinlge knight. If he is a trained mice of Varys, he should know what he is doing. If Illyrio is informed that he should smuggle out a "package" from the Vale, he can arrange a ship somewhere remote around the Fingers. And Sansa will have exactly the same reason to accompany Shadrich when she accompanied Dontos once.

Really? Last I checked, he looked pretty alone.

And yeah, I'm sure he will contact Illyrio, using his magical powers of telepathy :)

EDIT: I'm not sure why you assume Sansa would leave with Shadrich. She knows Dontos was nothing more than a front, so why would she fall for that again? From what you say, this is occurring after she becomes disillusioned with LF. SO it would follow that she wouldn't trust someone who appears to be exactly the same as Dontos was for LF.

Edited April 13, 2015 by HelenaExMachina

[Mithras]

It has just struck me, that Ser Lyn will win the Melee.

Alayne tells Randa that ser lyn might kill her suitors for a plump bag of gold, and Sansa knows how the fight will end as soon as she see's who is sparing, she tells us that there would have been brains as well if the sword was not blunted and she compliments Ser Lyn on his skill at arms, and he acknowledges that yes he is indeed very good. He then reminds her he has no lands and so needs no heir, and she tells us that Ser Lyn is always desperately short of cash. Then when thinking on the Melee she thinks it is for the older generation, and there will be prises and ransoms. The Winged Knights are being awarded for jousting not swordsmanship, we haven't heard anything of Lyn as a jouster, but we just got told he is awesome with the sword. And he doesn't have need for wings and the honour of service he has need of cash, his is the melee.

Yes, this was discussed before. But I think another person will do the job. Lyn is an expert swordsman but as Sansa noted, the oaf would die if they had real swords. Baelor Breakspear's head was opened by the mace of Maekar. So, I expect someone with a hammer or a mace to kill Harry. Even an axe can do the job if used well.

ETA: or maybe Lyn was making a practice to see whether he could kill someone with a tourney sword. Now that he saw it not likely, he might switch to a mace or a hammer.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mithras

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Woooohooooo! The Weirwoods' eyes don't miss much. ;)

Thank you . :blushing:

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Shadrich is no sinlge knight. If he is a trained mice of Varys, he should know what he is doing. If Illyrio is informed that he should smuggle out a "package" from the Vale, he can arrange a ship somewhere remote around the Fingers. And Sansa will have exactly the same reason to accompany Shadrich when she accompanied Dontos once.

There isn't a single hint that Ser Shadrich works for Varys at all. Not beyond knowing and caring about the very public bounty on Sansa.

Nor can he be one of Varys' mice, what with them having their tongues cut out and being dissappeared when they grow into adults.

Sansa accompanying Dontos had her fleeing the Lannisters with a guy she trusted. Who would she flee in the Vale and why should she trust Shadrich?

[Mithras]

Really? Last I checked, he looked pretty alone.

And yeah, I'm sure he will contact Illyrio, using his magical powers of telepathy :)

EDIT: I'm not sure why you assume Sansa would leave with Shadrich. She knows Dontos was nothing more than a front, so why would she fall for that again? From what you say, this is occurring after she becomes disillusioned with LF. SO it would follow that she wouldn't trust someone who appears to be exactly the same as Dontos was for LF.

There are two more "hungry knights" with him for a start. By the time he has been there, he could have informed Varys and more agents could have been placed in important locations.

The intelligence network of Varys and Illyrio at long distances rely on the messages carried by their ships and caravans. It is impossible to insert a small bird to Eyrie but the rest of the Vale is no different than other places. I am sure that Shadrich can send the message to the contact person in the Vale.

[Mithras]

There isn't a single hint that Ser Shadrich works for Varys at all. Not beyond knowing and caring about the very public bounty on Sansa.

Nor can he be one of Varys' mice, what with them having their tongues cut out and being dissappeared when they grow into adults.

Sansa accompanying Dontos had her fleeing the Lannisters with a guy she trusted. Who would she flee in the Vale and why should she trust Shadrich?

There is at least a single hint that Shadrich works for Varys. He used to train little mice in Pentos and the nickname of Shadrich is Mad Mouse. He is of small stature, clever, stalks well and there is the suspicion that someone climbed LF's window and spied on his papers, a la little mice style. George dropped the winged mice phrase in this chapter.

Therefore, you can hardly argue that there is not a single hint that Shadrich works for Varys. There are hints but there is no proof as of yet.

And it is not reported that the tongues of the little mice were cut off.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mithras

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Considering the "mute" attribute of the "little mice" and Varys killing them around puberty? Rather unlikely.

Nor does his stature relates in any way, beyond the symbolic maybe.

[Mithras]

Considering the "mute" attribute of the "little mice" and Varys killing them around puberty? Rather unlikely.

Nor does his stature relates in any way, beyond the symbolic maybe.

Yes it does. Illyrio specifically mentioned that they looked for small, quick, bright children.

[HexMachina]

There are two more "hungry knights" with him for a start. By the time he has been there, he could have informed Varys and more agents could have been placed in important locations.

The intelligence network of Varys and Illyrio at long distances rely on the messages carried by their ships and caravans. It is impossible to insert a small bird to Eyrie but the rest of the Vale is no different than other places. I am sure that Shadrich can send the message to the contact person in the Vale.

Nothing suggests Ser Galladon or Ser Morgarth are there with Ser Shadrich.

You seem to have an awfully unrealistic idea of the ease of sending messages in Westeros. All evidence points to the fact that he is there alone and without any help. I'm not saying he is not working for Varys (I don't have an opinion on that tbh) but even if he is, that doesn't make getting out of the Vale any easier.

[Mithras]

Nothing suggests Ser Galladon or Ser Morgarth are there with Ser Shadrich.

LF told Sansa that their gallantry is yet to be proven. Shadrich was looking for partners. That much he offered to Brienne.

So, something suggests that Shadrich might have found what he was looking for. That does not mean that Galladon and Morgarth are Varys' pets too. They might be simple tools recruited by Shadrich and he will get himself rid of them after they serve their purpose.

You seem to have an awfully unrealistic idea of the ease of sending messages in Westeros. All evidence points to the fact that he is there alone and without any help. I'm not saying he is not working for Varys (I don't have an opinion on that tbh) but even if he is, that doesn't make getting out of the Vale any easier.

If Varys started killing people that could be annoyance to fAegon, we can expect him to concentrate his spies on LF and the Vale, even if he didnot have enough spies already positioned.

A lot of smuggling should be taking place in the Fingers, considering the geography.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

i don´t think Sharich has any allies currently in the vale.. but:

The eunuch has offered a plump bag of gold for this girl you’ve never heard of. I am not a greedy man. If some oversized wench would help me find this naughty child, I would split the Spider’s coin with her.”

“Do you think if I asked nicely Ser Lyn would kill my suitors for me?”

“He might, for a plump bag of gold.” Ser Lyn Corbray was forever desperately short of coin, all the Vale knew that.

I think Lyn will also participate. furthermore since we now know his loyalties to Littlefinger is not what it seems.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I'm starting to think that LF will kill Harry the Heir and that the whole betrothal was his cover. If Harry dies/ is killed now everyone will think LF is loosing out because he had made an awesome match for his daughter.

[Direwolf Blitzer]

I'm starting to think that LF will kill Harry the Heir and that the whole betrothal was his cover. If Harry dies/ is killed now everyone will think LF is loosing out because he had made an awesome match for his daughter.

So I was just typing a response to you and realized I was probably pretty wrong. I was gonna say: Doesn't Petyr need Harry? His current hold on the Eyrie rests on his being Sweetrobin's de facto guardian, and SR is sickly and unreliable. So wouldn't Petyr want his hooks in the next Lord of the Eyrie?

But then I thought about it, and it seems very much unlike Littlefinger to rely on the kindness of strangers. I mean, assuming Harry inherits and marries Sansa, what's to stop them from just throwing Littlefinger out of the Vale? Granted, he's Lord Paramount of the Trident. But the Eyrie isn't his seat. Assuming he doesn't want to retire to Harrenhal, how does Littlefinger stay on top at the Eyrie?

[aryagonnakill#2]

^That's what I'm thinking. I don't see how LF could ever get Harry to love him, especially if Harry is Lord of the Vale and is rich and powerful in his own right. It seems like the best he could hope for would be Sansa convincing him to give LF the troops he needs to take up his seat at Harrenhall. While that doesn't seem like a far out notion, he could probably have hired sellswords to do the same thing. There is another potential plot involving Harry that LF could be going for but seems kind of repetitious. He could want Sansa to marry Harry and get pregnant, then knock off both Harry and Robert and then Sansa would be where Lysa was when she arrived in the Vale. Then LF could potentially marry Sansa and have everything he wants, but he would still have to raise another mans child and sacrifice Sansa's virginity. Although, while many people think that is something LF would value, the 1 thing LF actually believes he got from Catlyn was her virginity, so maybe he does not place a high value on Sansa's.

Edited April 13, 2015 by aryagonnakill#2

[Led]

I think Lyn will also participate. furthermore since we now know his loyalties to Littlefinger is not what it seems.

We don't actually know that. We only know that Sansa thought he might not be as loyal as LF thinks... He might also simply be a really good actor and actually very loyal. Impossible to know from the little we've seen.