[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XII - New direction

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I'll reserve my opinion of this until the subsequent episodes air, but on my opinion, that's not the vibe the show is setting up at all. If I had to bet, I'd say that there may be some violence involved, but with Brienne and Pod apparently going North, to Sansa's wedding, I'd say there's something on that line. If the Abel/Spearwives is substituted by Brienne/Pod, they could hurt Pod/Brienne, maybe? And indeed, it is a hard season for Sansa already. She'll have to go North. I don't think she's forced by LF. I think she'll go by her own agency, by choice. To avenge the Starks.

[Cas Stark]

I guess the 'lovely people' Roose's actor was referring to could be Brienne and Pod, other than Sansa, I can't think of anyone in the North who has been cast or is returning that would qualify.

You might think, what with Show Roose having left Brienne for the bear.....she might think twice about putting herself back under his control....LOL.

[juanml82]

I guess the 'lovely people' Roose's actor was referring to could be Brienne and Pod, other than Sansa, I can't think of anyone in the North who has been cast or is returning that would qualify.

You might think, what with Show Roose having left Brienne for the bear.....she might think twice about putting herself back under his control....LOL.

Besides, is Sansa going to manipulate her captors into torturing her less? I don't think the character has happy times ahead, but having her tortured would only serve to smack down her ego

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I guess the 'lovely people' Roose's actor was referring to could be Brienne and Pod, other than Sansa, I can't think of anyone in the North who has been cast or is returning that would qualify.

You might think, what with Show Roose having left Brienne for the bear.....she might think twice about putting herself back under his control....LOL.

And lovely people doesn't seem to really speak of one person.

It even makes sense, because show!Brienne wants to kill Stannis, but if he defeats Ramsay, would she still want to kill him? Characters aren't smart on the show, so I would not be surprised about Brienne going back into a position involving Roose. Whatever shit happens, It is in Episode 6/7/8.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Double post

[Cas Stark]

And lovely people doesn't seem to really speak of one person.

It even makes sense, because show!Brienne wants to kill Stannis, but if he defeats Ramsay, would she still want to kill him? Characters aren't smart on the show, so I would not be surprised about Brienne going back into a position involving Roose. Whatever shit happens, It is in Episode 6/7/8.

Good god, with the foul mouth and nasty attitude of Show Brienne, Roose would have her tongue out in the first half an hour she showed up at WF. But, whatever. Maybe some few decent scenes can be salvaged around a decimated Winterfell or something in the godswood with Theon, I just can't buy Sansa manipulating the Boltons. It's one thing for her to easily manipulate someone like Harry, or your typical lord and lady, Harry is just a spoiled bad boy....Roose and Ramsay are stone cold killers, and Ramsay, even in the show is a nut job torturer, these kinds of people are not "won over" by charming women or smart women or charming men or smart men, they aren't won over at all.

[Janicia]

I might hate what they're doing with Sansa. But I do like that she's connected to the Winterfell story rather than isolated in the Vale.

It seems like they might be setting up Sansa parallels with season 2. Sansa will again be stuck in a bad place with a bad engagement/marriage and Stannis is coming again to kill her captors. Sansa will have to decide again whether to trust in Stannis. In season 2, she trusted Stannis over Sandor but Stannis lost the battle. This time, I guess she'll decide to trust Theon rather than risk waiting for Stannis again. Instead of "your princess is in another castle", Sansa is facing "your hero was defeated again".

Wasn't there filming news with LF in Kings Landing? I wonder if Sansa's situation with the Boltons escapes his control.

Somebody like Ramsay can't be controlled, even by an S&M goddess, which Sansa isn't. If she falls into his hands, she's going to suffer. Margery wouldn't have been able to control Joffrey for long either. If somebody with absolute power gets off on inflicting pain, there is no protection.

If they're merging Sansa with Stoneheart in some way, it might be necessary for Sansa to suffer so that she becomes dark enough. I don't know if I'll like that path, but it might be a good story.

[sweetsunray]

I might hate what they're doing with Sansa. But I do like that she's connected to the Winterfell story rather than isolated in the Vale.

It seems like they might be setting up Sansa parallels with season 2. Sansa will again be stuck in a bad place with a bad engagement/marriage and Stannis is coming again to kill her captors. Sansa will have to decide again whether to trust in Stannis. In season 2, she trusted Stannis over Sandor but Stannis lost the battle. This time, I guess she'll decide to trust Theon rather than risk waiting for Stannis again. Instead of "your princess is in another castle", Sansa is facing "your hero was defeated again".

Wasn't there filming news with LF in Kings Landing? I wonder if Sansa's situation with the Boltons escapes his control.

Somebody like Ramsay can't be controlled, even by an S&M goddess, which Sansa isn't. If she falls into his hands, she's going to suffer. Margery wouldn't have been able to control Joffrey for long either. If somebody with absolute power gets off on inflicting pain, there is no protection.

If they're merging Sansa with Stoneheart in some way, it might be necessary for Sansa to suffer so that she becomes dark enough. I don't know if I'll like that path, but it might be a good story.

And it would make sense for Sansa to be truly personally motivated to bring down LF later on in the game. If he persuades her/takes her to WF to marry Ramsay and leaves her to a situation where she ends up "very, very traumatized" and yet manages to deal with it differently as she had in the past and manipulate her captors, she'll have exactly the motivation to take down the giant. She'll hate him for convincing her and then leave her to fend for herself with the awful Boltons.

I really hate the idea of Sansa being abused and raped by Ramsay, but it would also add to the viewer sentiment that Jon was totally in the right to abandon his NW vows and MUST save her ... cue in: Ides of March.

[Nefertari]

I think people should drop the VAMP Sansa empowering delusion.

That's not Sansa role, she's not manipulative, she's not a sexual agressive person that can use sex to turn Ramsay in her little plaything(lol).

She is a nice ingenue little girl, who trusted the very wrong persons(Cersey,LF), and once again all she will get is pain, and this time nothing will protect her.

Little Finger isn't doing this to hurt Sansa, that's another delusion, LF simply doesn't care for her, he doesn't love her or hate her, he's using her, for him Sansa is just another Lysa, a Catelyn substitute that he's not afraid to use to reach his goal (power).

Also i think that's the show is being smart in this, because many people, like Sansa, trusted LF once again, so we, together with Sansa, are falling into the trap.

[sweetsunray]

I think people should drop the VAMP Sansa empowering delusion.

That's not Sansa role, she's not manipulative, she's not a sexual agressive person that can use sex to turn Ramsay in her little plaything(lol).

I agree with you that Sansa will not be a sexual aggressive person who will turn Ramsay into a plaything. But she can be manipulative. Remember how she manipulated Joff into saving Dontos? Abuse victims manipulate their captors into being kind to them, while the abusers manipulate their victims into walking on eggshells. But Sansa is somewhat older now than at KL and therefore she will use her sexuality more. That doesn't mean she'll be a vamp though.

I completely agree with your assessment of LF: he doesn't care about Sansa at all. He's the character who'd score 40/40 on Hare's psychopathy test (think There Will Be Blood's Daniel Day Lewis portrayal). He only cares about power, the game of one-upping others. Everybody's a prop, a tool, a means to an end in his eyes. He may consider some as desirable and attractive, but that's as far as it goes. He's as callous about what happens to others as it gets. Sansa and viewers make a miscalculation when they assume LF wants Sansa for himself and cares even 1% about her.

As for what can LF get out of marrying Sansa off to Ramsay and Cersei finding out about it? Exactly this: that Cersei finds out that Sansa Stark managed to escape to the North and married off to the son of a supposed ally. How long before that will cause a rift between KL and the North? And the Boltons are stupid to believe the North will sit tight with Sansa at WF married off to a traitor. Sansa's marriage to Ramsay simply creates more chaos, people fighting each other and being distracted. And that's exactly what LF aims for.

[Areo Speedwagon]

I'll reserve my opinion of this until the subsequent episodes air, but on my opinion, that's not the vibe the show is setting up at all. If I had to bet, I'd say that there may be some violence involved, but with Brienne and Pod apparently going North, to Sansa's wedding, I'd say there's something on that line. If the Abel/Spearwives is substituted by Brienne/Pod, they could hurt Pod/Brienne, maybe? And indeed, it is a hard season for Sansa already. She'll have to go North. I don't think she's forced by LF. I think she'll go by her own agency, by choice. To avenge the Starks.

Brienne/Pod would be really interesting.

I was thinking about what Brienne's arc might be while I was rewatching the series. I think that scenario of her having to choose sadistic killers of Catelyn, Roose/Ramsay or demon worshipping killer of Renly, Stannis, fits nicely with paralleling her story with Jaime's.

[ADanceWithCats]

Little Finger isn't doing this to hurt Sansa, that's another delusion, LF simply doesn't care for her, he doesn't love her or hate her, he's using her, for him Sansa is just another Lysa, a Catelyn substitute that he's not afraid to use to reach his goal (power).

Actually, there's now an interview with Littlefinger! http://www.salon.com/2015/04/14/game_of_thrones_star_aidan_gillen_on_littlefingers_weakness_for_sansa_stark_shes_playing_him_as_much_as_hes_playing_her/

What do you think the nature of their relationship is?

I honestly see it as kind of a mentoring… He’s a mentor and Sansa’s a pupil. Obviously, her mother was one person that Littlefinger had feelings for and that he wanted to be with, so there are echoes of that in there, but he’s not after her. He’s not grooming her. She’s playing him as much as he’s playing her. They’re both getting something out of it.

Do you think he genuinely cares about her?

Yeah. I know that because I’m playing it. Absolutely. I think there’s a genuine benevolent side to Littlefinger. There’s nasty things and harsh things but there’s a caring person there as well, somewhere. He cares about himself, I mean, of course. I’m not saying Baelish is a selfless person, but these characters on “Game of Thrones,” there’s lots of time — we’re entering our 6th season, so there’s plenty of time for people to throw different shades onto things. It’s always good when you’re surprised by somebody’s spontaneous nastiness or niceness. There’s room for that with Baelish as much as anyone else.

He does seem to have this genuine kindness to him just like we saw come out with Jamie Lannister. That’s kind of the thing with “Game of Thrones” — nice characters do horrible things and horrible characters do nice things and everyone comes in many shades of gray.

Yeah, it is. I think with Littlefinger and Sansa, she’s one person that, as the seasons roll by, she’s one person he’s spent more time with and gotten to know and gotten to let her know him. He’s been a keeping-his-cards-close-to-the-chest, tight person who didn’t really have relationships, but not anymore.

e: well, with Aidan, anyway... and yeah, I hope that getting soft will kill him. :D

e2: oh, for heaven's sake. I hope that getting soft will kill LF. Not AG. :D

[Nefertari]

I agree with you that Sansa will not be a sexual aggressive person who will turn Ramsay into a plaything. But she can be manipulative. Remember how she manipulated Joff into saving Dontos? Abuse victims manipulate their captors into being kind to them, while the abusers manipulate their victims into walking on eggshells. But Sansa is somewhat older now than at KL and therefore she will use her sexuality more. That doesn't mean she'll be a vamp though.

Yes, i agree she can be manipulative but i think everyone can be manipulative(even a cat), but that doesn't mean that Sansa can turn every situation in her favour, maybe Margaery could, but Sansa is not Margaery .

Since few eps ago Sansa was trembling at the idea of having sex with Tyrion, how can people think she can turn into a S/M lady and turn Ramsay into her dog?

The actors interviews are a big big HINTS, they already said people won't like what will happen to a certain character (Alfie Alllen said it, it's a character connected to him...),i really expect the worse scenario for Sansa, i like Sansa, i think that my heart will be broken, but i can't really see how things would turn into her favour( belivable, i don't even take in consideration the Sansa taming Ramsey scenario, it's not only not beliavable but really really cheesy...and somehow hilarious in a not good way)

[Nefertari]

Actually, there's now an interview with Littlefinger! http://www.salon.com/2015/04/14/game_of_thrones_star_aidan_gillen_on_littlefingers_weakness_for_sansa_stark_shes_playing_him_as_much_as_hes_playing_her/

e: well, with Aidan, anyway... and yeah, I hope that getting soft will kill him. :D

e2: oh, for heaven's sake. I hope that getting soft will kill LF. Not AG. :D

I see, so you think he won't marry Sansa off, especially not to a well known phycho like Ramsay?

[Colonel Green]

The actors interviews are a big big HINTS, they already said people won't like what will happen to a certain character (Alfie Alllen said it, it's a character connected to him...)

Which interview is this? I'm familiar with all the other things people have been citing.

[Nefertari]

Which interview is this? I'm familiar with all the other things people have been citing.

It's been cited this one too, it's the one about Theon witnessing something awful Ramsey will do to a well loved character, and that people won't like it.

He also told he will cross path with people that since then never met or had a minute of time together.

But he also said there will be a sort of light at the end.

So i'm believing in a way or another they will escape.

[ADanceWithCats]

I see, so you think he won't marry Sansa off, especially not to a well known phycho like Ramsay?

Nope. Here's my position: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/127550-book-spoilers-discussing-sansa-xii-new-direction/?p=6907551 . Essentially, I think LF is sincere in that he sees the proposal/marriage mostly not as a way to gain power, but as a way for Sansa to get revenge. It's his gift for her. But, like Arya's teachers among the Faceless Men, he also believes that what Sansa makes of this gift is up to her decision and her abilities.

[Colonel Green]

It's been cited this one too

Where? That's what I'm asking. I'd like to see this interview, because I'm not familiar with that particular phrase.

[Nefertari]

Nope. Here's my position: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/127550-book-spoilers-discussing-sansa-xii-new-direction/?p=6907551 . Essentially, I think LF is sincere in that he sees the proposal/marriage mostly not as a way to gain power, but as a way for Sansa to get revenge. It's his gift for her. But, like Arya's teachers among the Faceless Men, he also believes that what Sansa makes of this gift is up to her decision and her abilities.

I see, well, i don't agree but we will see this season (i don't understand what kind of abilities LF may think a girl like Sansa could have against a phycho like Ramsay, being served to a rapist/phycho who enjoy to torture people isn't exactly what i would call a gift )

Where? That's what I'm asking. I'd like to see this interview, because I'm not familiar with that particular phrase.

I found some but there are more http://www.designntrend.com/articles/47096/20150411/game-of-thrones-spoilers-ramsay-stop-torturing-theon-reek-season-5.htm

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/02/23/alfie-allen-talks-season-5-and-theons-private-parts/

[Hath4]

disregard